RE: 24.000 Dutch POW!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: 24.000 Dutch POW!

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RE: 24.000 Dutch POW! - 7/16/2005 1:27:57 AM

BPRE

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Great AAR! I don't read that many but this is one of the absolutely best since you give us our thoughts and plans. Comparing your views of the same situation makes it even more interesting.

As a side comment I don't think you should concentrate too much on trying to stop him completely. It has to be as costly as possile for him and if you can give him a small punch somewhere where he's weaker now and then you will finally force him to stop because he's running out of trained pilots, material, supply and fuel.

/BPRE

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RE: 24.000 Dutch POW! - 7/16/2005 2:37:44 AM

mc3744

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BPRE

Great AAR! I don't read that many but this is one of the absolutely best since you give us our thoughts and plans. Comparing your views of the same situation makes it even more interesting.

As a side comment I don't think you should concentrate too much on trying to stop him completely. It has to be as costly as possile for him and if you can give him a small punch somewhere where he's weaker now and then you will finally force him to stop because he's running out of trained pilots, material, supply and fuel.

/BPRE

Thanks

If by 'completely' you mean 'beside Burma, Eastern China, DEI, PI, Northern Australia and CenPac' I'm not sure I agree with you

I've got to keep something, haven't I? I mean what's left? I couldn't loose much more without being wiped away from the map

Yeah, I know about hitting where he is weak, problem is: WHERE THE HELL IS HE WEAK?!?!?

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RE: 24.000 Dutch POW! - 7/16/2005 10:22:14 AM

BPRE

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True! You don't want to risk the few assets you have.
Having all the carriers of Exmouth would have been nice for instance.
I'm playing Japanese against the AI for the moment and even though I try to careful with my pilot pools they are just shrinking. And this is without any really major battles in the air. If you can keep on killing a few aircraft here and there it's bound to be the same for him. Eventually he'll only have very few squadrons flying with any experience or you can just plow through whatever fighters he has or down all the bombers. Especially with your later aircraft.

Keep on fighting
BPRE

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Post #: 153

Baker's fate - 7/16/2005 9:41:35 PM

mc3744

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March 27th, 1942

INDIA
The night bombing destroyed (11) Jap planes on flied. Good. I�ll keep at it until he�ll get the hell out. He will.
The mediums brought Akyab damage to (76). Blenheim�s I and IV have been moved back to Madras; SB-2c will hit the airfield one more time. I want to check what he does. I�ve moved one more Hurricane�s squadron in Diamond Harbor.
See picture for details on air attack vectors, supply routes and airfields situation.

CHINA
As usual.

CENPAC
The assault TF�s are in position around Baker, tonight the landing should commence. It�ll be the last day of freedom for Baker�s defenders.
In PH the P-26A squadron has been upgraded to P-40E.
My plan for Palmyra is as follows.
I�m bringing air support in Palmyra up to 200 points, to fulfill the needs of the airfield size (4). If he comes for Palmyra I�ll move, with a stop in Johnston, all the F4F-4 and P-40E I now have in PH to Palmyra. They�ll be placed on LR CAP and protect the (5) CV�s task force that I�ll bring outside Palmyra. This way I can afford a huge CAP over the carriers while not risking to loose all my air assets to a night bombing. In fact I can place the carriers two (2) hexes in front of Palmyra - well within LR CAP cover. Hence he won�t be able to get into Palmyra�s range with the BB�s without first getting into my CV�s range. If he wants to night bomb he has to pass through the carrier�s air strike. He can of course protect the BB�s with his own carriers. In which case I have to hope some of my DB and TB will make it through his CAP.
As final defense I�m placing PT�s as well. They are the last line of defense against night bombing.

If anybody sees any major hole in this plan, please let me know.

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Post #: 154

RE: Baker's fate - 7/17/2005 12:12:04 AM

Crimefighter

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Hey MC

it is my understanding that in UV any LBA providing LRCAP over carrier TFs are significantly reduced in effectiveness

is it different in WitP?

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Post #: 155

RE: Baker's fate - 7/17/2005 12:34:09 AM

mc3744

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimefighter

Hey MC

it is my understanding that in UV any LBA providing LRCAP over carrier TFs are significantly reduced in effectiveness

is it different in WitP?

I didn't know this.
Reduced how? Less planes? I don't think their stats could change.

Anybody else on this?

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RE: Baker's fate - 7/17/2005 1:24:28 AM

cookie monster

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Its reduced and in the manual

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Post #: 157

RE: Baker's fate - 7/17/2005 1:27:50 AM

Terminus

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It's only 20% as effective as over other kinds of task forces. Something to do with coordinating with the carrier's own aircraft. Check section 7.1 in the manual, near the end of the section.

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Post #: 158

RE: Baker's fate - 7/17/2005 4:10:24 AM

Tom Hunter

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If I had to defend one of these isloted bases and it had a level 4 airfield, I would:

Place at least 100 fighters on CAP at different altitudes and cap levels from 70-90%.

Mine the area

Place 3 TFs of ships, one of PTs, one with DDs and CLs and one with BBs. The PTs go first, the CLs and DDs follow the PTs, and the BBs follow the CLs. The most aggressive commander is in the BBs. These TFs are home ported at the island, set on patrol do not retire and have a react of zero hexes.

Based on the battles I have fought so far I think this is the optimum set up to get a naval victory with the big BB guns doing some serious damage. I have never tested this but that is my feeling.

The CVs should be kept a day or two away from the base ready to react after the LBA and surface forces have won a victory. If its possible to get 150 fighters into the CAP you should, also it is wise to have another 50-100 fighters within one days flying range to re-inforce after the first day. Also ideally you want bombers and torpedo planes a day away as well, because if you cripple enemy ships this way you can hunt them as they retire.

Frankly it would take me a month to get this defense ready and I have never had an opponent who went for the Central Pacific so its untested, but this is what I would do if I saw the Japanese coming for Palmyra, Pago Pago or Canton and had the time to prepare.

Good luck

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Post #: 159

RE: Baker's fate - 7/17/2005 3:22:06 PM

mc3744

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Thanks Terminus

, you never stop learning with this game.

Hey Tom,
this is very sound advice.
I especially like the idea of keeping some replacement air assets one turn away (i.e. Johnston Is.)

.
As you'll see in the next report, I'm starting to think that Palmyra is in no immediate danger, still I have to be prepared.
It won't be another Canton.

Thanks guys

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Post #: 160

Ambushed at PagoPago - 7/17/2005 3:39:59 PM

mc3744

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March 28th, 1942

INDIA
No reaction yet to the night bombings, this turn (8) planes destroyed. Combined however with Daly Waters attack.
(2) B-17�s squadron did not take off due to low morale. They should however take off next turn.
His bombers are still pounding Eastern and Central China. Hence the Blenheim IV are back in Chandpur. They�ll bomb the last resources left in Meiktila. He is CAPing Taung Guy.
I�m resuming Buffalo�s training over Birmania. (2) squadron�s will bomb Magwe from Calcutta. I�ll switch target every turn. Just in case.

AUSTRALIA
First night attack over Daly, not a big success, but I�m hoping that with increased recon they�ll get better.
I�m worried for Western Australia, if he comes it falls.

CENPAC

He is preparing the landing in Baker with minesweeping activity. The coastal batteries managed to sink (7) MSW�s. A small satisfaction.
Coronado�s sank one sub in the waters surrounding Palmyra.
I�ve been ambushed near Pago Pago.

He couldn�t have arrived at a worst time!! A transport TF (APs + DDs) had just arrived to load the Americal US Division and one cargo TF with (10) AKs was passing by.
My guess is that he is scouting Pago Pago, which will probably be his next objective. Therefore Palmyra might not be in any immediate danger.
He sank (1) AP, (1) DD and (4) AKs. I�ve disbanded the (3) APs survivors and (1) DD in Pago Pago. (2) AKs badly damaged are heading for Pago Pago, they�ll serve as decoys to avoid port bombing. The other AKs have been scattered and are running away as fast as possible (see picture).
The biggest problem I�m now facing is the risk of loosing the Americal Division, I may not be able to move it to Luganville. Bad mistake, another one!!
If he just came (2) turns later!!!!!

Air assets available in SF for Palmyra�s defence:
(48) F4F-4
(24) P-40E
(16) SBD
(32) Beaufort I en route
In SF a TF with the newly arrived CVE Long Island and the repaired BB Oklahoma has set sail for PH.

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Post #: 161

Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 12:38:13 AM

mc3744

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March 29th - 30th, 1942

INDIA
Night bombing keeps bothering him, last turn (15) fighters destroyed on field.

The mediums seem to be utterly useless at night missions. During daylight it�s still too dangerous.

AUSTRALIA
In a few weeks I may have a force strong enough to try and fight back the invader. We�ll see.

PACIFIC
(5) more MSW�s went down due to the damages received at Baker. A total of (12) MSW�s lost due to coastal battery fire, not bad.
I lost (3) more AK�s near Pago Pago. He now controls Wallis, Upolu and Savaii (see picture). He is also bombing Pago Pago harbor, as expected. The DD is seriously damaged.
I�m really worried that the Americal US Division is lost forever. It will be the second full division lost!

I�ve assigned the 2nd NZ Bde in Auckland to SOPAC and I�m taking it to Luganville. New Zealand is now quite weak. But I give precedence to New Hebrides and New Caledonia. If I hold them, it�d be difficult for him to take and hold New Zealand. Should I manage to evacuate the Americal Division I may take something back to Auckland.

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 4:44:46 AM

Gem35

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Can you get some air transports in to airlift Americal division out to Suva ? Do you have any AV's in Suva to keep them in the air?

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 12:17:55 PM

mc3744

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Can you get some air transports in to airlift Americal division out to Suva ? Do you have any AV's in Suva to keep them in the air?

Hey! Good idea!!! I don't know why I didn't think it myself

I'm going to check now, but I'm almost sure I have a Dakota's squadron in Suva, in Pago Pago I have no aviation support. But I could do the pick up from Suva.
I'll try and let you know.

Thanks

.... man, I'm so stupid!!

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 12:47:09 PM

Kereguelen

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Evacuating fragments of endangered units via sub transport could also be helpful in your situation...

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 2:45:34 PM

Bliztk

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Patrol Airplanes also work. Put them to supply transport to Suva, then the Pick troops option will be avaliable, click on it and you can remove cadres of your units.

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 5:13:27 PM

mc3744

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I'm going old. Of course I should evacuate fragments bu subs too. What's wrong with me?!? I've played too much and now I'm forgetting the basics

Thanks Kereguelen

Thanks Blitztk,
this one I remembered

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 5:15:52 PM

Terminus

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That's what happens. You get your brain crammed full of all the advanced tricks you learn on this forum, and the basic stuff get's pushed out your ears!

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 5:19:13 PM

mc3744

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March 31st � April 1st, 1942

INDIA
Mediums are hopeless at night bombing. I�ll have to risk them during daylight missions.
Night bombings destroy 10-15 planes per turn, plus his ops losses, his air losses are growing much faster than mine. He has now lost (100) planes more than me. One month ago I was under by (200).

AUSTRALIA
Night bombings are not very effective yet, too few heavies. Every night not more than (30) B-17�s take off. They score 1-3 hits.
(32) LB-30�s are being assembled on the ground and (32) more are on their way through the fiery Pacific.

PACIFIC
I checked if I could airlift the Americal Division out of Pago Pago with C-47. I cannot because of the range.
It seems however than Catalina�s and Coronado�s can. (2) squadron will give it a try this turn, if it works I�ll move more into Suva.
The CV TF seems to have moved away. I�m sending one single AP at full speed to Pago Pago, in three turn I�ll send another one. This way it should be more difficult to locate it and I may be able to evacuate the entire division.
Next question will be: will I take it to Luganville or should I leave it in Suva to try and hold the Fiji. In the picture Suva today. Please let me have your feed-back I�m really in doubt.

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 5:26:59 PM

Terminus

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Think you should hold on to Suva as hard as you can. Luganville is too far north and too vulnerable, plus Suva is next door to Nandi and both can be built up to have very useful airbases.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 7/18/2005 5:32:34 PM >

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 5:44:21 PM

mc3744

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Uhm ... uhm

Yes, you are right. Fiji can be built to have twin air bases. And that's very useful.
However I only have 170+ AV in Suva, while in Luganvile I'm already around 500.
Sure, with the Americal I get to 500+, but will it be enough?
If I take the Americal to Luganville I get to (2) full divisions and almost 1.000 AV.
The base is already fully supplied. Some 100k supplies or so. Hence it could even withstand a prolonged siege.

One more thing. In Fiji he can land without having to face my coastal batteries. He simply lands in Nandi.
In Luganville he must get through mines and coastal batteries.

Uhm, I'm yet not convinced

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 5:49:31 PM

Terminus

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Well, of course, if you have a fully developed base in Luganville, then by all means... So long as he doesn't bypass you, and lets you sit there, while he takes Noumea and Suva/Nandi.

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 6:39:09 PM

Tom Hunter

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I think you need time to organize a stronger defense than the ones you have had to date.

I would suggest your objectives be:

Slow the Japanese advance where ever they go by disruptive and raiding tactics, but do not risk large forces trying to stop them.

Build up a collection of mutually supporting bases and air units that actually can stop them.

I believe the second objective takes time, especailly when your fighting Hoepner, so I would pick a place you think he will come to eventually but not in the next two weeks.

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 6:46:21 PM

mc3744

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

I think you need time to organize a stronger defense than the ones you have had to date.

I would suggest your objectives be:

Slow the Japanese advance where ever they go by disruptive and raiding tactics, but do not risk large forces trying to stop them.

Build up a collection of mutually supporting bases and air units that actually can stop them.

I believe the second objective takes time, especailly when your fighting Hoepner, so I would pick a place you think he will come to eventually but not in the next two weeks.

If I may ... that's easy to say, to do it ... uhm

Where am I supposed to build mutually supporting airbases in the Pacific? There's only Fiji. I don't have enough time.

There is no way I can employ raiding tactics, Betty's and Nell's have 20 and 21 hexes of range. I cannot even come close without being hammered.

Last but not least ... I do not have large forces to risk

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 6:49:20 PM

Tom Hunter

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The advice is worth what your paying for it

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/18/2005 6:53:18 PM

mc3744

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

The advice is worth what your paying for it

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/19/2005 1:31:42 AM

mc3744

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April 2nd - 3rd, 1942

INDIA
Looks like he has eventually gotten tired of loosing (15) planes per turn.

Recon flights spotted (190) auxiliary planes in Mandalay, plus fighters. I think he is going to strike back.
This time I�ll try to hold the �air�. My planes are concentrated mainly in Diamond Harbor and Chandpur. All the fighters are on CAP 90%. Altitudes between 15k and 25k. If he is coming in with the bombers he won�t be higher than 15k otherwise he gets little or no effect.
I have a reasonably good plane pool. I think it�s time to give it a try.

PACIFIC
As I feared, despite the orders that seemed to be fine, the PBY�s didn�t pick up one single man from Pago. I�ve seen this before, I don�t know why.

His damned carriers group is still there - I couldn�t see it - and hammered the incoming AP (see picture).

Just by chance she is still floating and may even make it back to Suva.
Hence I�m only left with the subs to pick up fragments of the Americal Division.
Looking at the map, it now appears clear that if he takes Pago AND Bora Bora he closes the doors to Australia.
I have to keep Bora . So far there isn�t much I can do. In PH one CD unit is loading and will be transferred to Bora, in SF I reassigned a small ENG (30 aviation support) and it is also going for Bora. It�ll be needed for servicing Catalina�s.
The second measure is a carrier group. Yep, I know what you are thinking �he is gone crazy�.

Well my point is: (a) he has already split his KB, the group nearby Pago is not a full Death Star, (b) he may not go to Bora with the usual overwhelming assault and (a) could be a further proof of that.
Now if this is true, Bora may soon see a small-medium invasion group incoming. Possibly with no carrier escort since it�s totally out of US aircrafts range and he could be low on fuel.
Hence my evil plan

: a TF with Lexington and Saratoga will wait in Papete. They�ll stay there until Bora is safe or until something shows up. It�s going to be a while before I�ll be in Papete. But he still has to conquer Nanumea and Pago, hence I should have some time. If he never comes ... that�s even better.
In SF the 32nd US Division has arrived, I�m taking it to Palmyra. Once I get it there I�ll move one Rgt out of Palmyra and to Bora.

Overall the situation looks awful. He may succeed in taking out all my bases one after another with his behemoth invasions. My only hope lies in the length of his supply lines, to get to Bora from Japan takes quite some time and lots of fuel. Unfortunately all the bases he is now conquering were/are very well supplied with fuel and supplies (>20K for both).

The way I see it, he could conquer Western Australia, New Zealand and the full Pacific in a couple of months. Basically there is almost nothing I can do about it. If he keeps moving 100k men at a time I just don�t have the strength to hold a sufficient number of bases against such a force. And holding only a couple doesn�t help me at all.
What can I do with Luganville, but no Noumea or New Zealand? Or what is it worth Palmyra if Pago and Bora are his? I still cannot go to Australia. Or Fiji without Luganville and Noumea?
The point is: to stop his strategy I must concentrate enough strength in a single point, given the forces I now have at my disposal this leaves me with the option to concentrate in two, tops three bases. What am I going to do with 2-3 bases in the whole Pacific? Say hi to the Jap ships passing by, no more.
One answer could be: hit him in the vacated bases while he is moving to a new location. The problem with this is that he moves the INF divisions, the tanks, artillery, construction battalions, ... but he leaves behind base forces and his damned Nell�s, Betty�s and Zero�s. At this point in the game they are just killers. Even if I knew that he only had one base force in a certain base, I still couldn't attack it, because I cannot protect the invasion force from his planes. And that even without considering the carriers.

Only India and China appear to be safe.

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/19/2005 4:22:19 AM

Crimefighter

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MC

This is a great game you and GH have going on... so HURRY UP already I cant stand the suspense!

Kidding aside... I know you are feeling in a tight spot and have suffered some painfull losses, so I think this would be a good moment for you to retire from the front lines and ponder your overall strategy in 3, 6 and 12 month increments. I feel that you are abit overly concerned about what you are going to do today, tomorrow and next week.

I'm thinking that if in 3 months you have East Aus, NZ and PH and little else in the pacific you could still be in fine shape if you have a huge offensive force gathering in PH to retake the CenPac in 6 mos.

As far as West Aus... I cant imagine a Jap player wanted that place unless they are playing world domination against the AI and have run out of things to capture. Think how sweet you would be feeling if GH had that KB+ armada he has at Canton off the coast of West Aust instead.

Northern Aus... I know you are itching to retake that... but would you be decidedly better off if you were still in Darwin at this moment in the game? Leaving him there for awhile gives your heavies in Aus something to pound away at and not trying to accumulate the force to retake it allows you to instead acculate that force in PH for retaking the CenPac in 6 mos.

In the spirit of "hitting em where they aint"... I'm thinking India is where you are strongest and Burma is where he is weakest. Well he may not actually be weak there but he has lost air superiority there. How bout a plan to hit him there... hard!

And finally... China.

You been omitting it in your AAR. Presumably because you feel there isnt much you can do there. I'm thinking losing the CenPac is one thing but losing CenPac and China would really hurt. And in my mind India is the way you can affect China. How bout a 3 month goal of bring the heavies to bear on China.

Summing up:

3 months - Heavies outa Burma put the hurt on China

6 months - Operation World Domination lauches from PH

12 months - Starved, isolated and forgotten Jap divisions surrender in Darwin

As for today, tomorrow and next week... Operation Rope-a-Dope

Go rent a DVD of the Ali-Foreman fight in Africa

Ali woulda made a great american general in the pacific theater I'm thinking.

I hope none of this sounds condesending... I know you have way more experience at this game than I do and I think you are doing fine.

Anyway git back to playing and post some more!@!

Edits for "Gramma"

< Message edited by Crimefighter -- 7/19/2005 4:25:58 AM >

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/19/2005 9:56:13 AM

mc3744

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Hey Crimefighter,

Thanks for your comments.

I agree with you on Western Australia, the only problem is that he doesn't need a big KB or many force to take it right now.
Still he probably won't come, but I feel vulnerable there and it bothers me.

China, with the exception of Eastern China (see next report) is stable.

Keeping NZ might be a problem if he decides to go for it regardless Nanoume and Luganville possesion.

We'll know quite soon ... or maybe you know already through his AAR

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RE: Mayhem in Central Pacific - 7/19/2005 10:11:12 AM

mc3744

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April 4th, 1942

INDIA
(66) Blenheim�s IV hit (4) resources during a daylight bombing over Myiktina.
Few heavies took off at night, hence only a total of (6) Japs lost on field.
Night time training has resumed, from Chandpur vs. Akyab.
So far Wirraway (8), Mohawks IV (16) and Blenheim IF (12). More on their way to Chandpur.
I will soon switch to Mandalay airfield daylight bombing with the heavies. Coupled with the mediums I should be able to close down the airfield � with acceptable losses � in 2-3 days.

CHINA
He is going for a �long range� surrounding. Maybe he is even going for Sining, where I only have (2) base forces (see picture).
I�m airlifting the 20th Indian Division from Ledo, it should help defending.

PACIFIC
I�m redirecting AK�s, TK�s and AP�s to Suva. Right now there are several tens of thousands of supplies and fuel there. I intend to strip Suva bare of troops and everything else, before he comes for it.
The 8th BS equipped with A-24, which was previously located in Canton has been loaded and is headed towards Townsville.
In SF the 72nd US FA Rgt is loading, destination Palmyra.

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Nec recisa recedit

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