Wind gage

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Napoleonics] >> Crown of Glory >> Crown Of Glory Support >> Wind gage

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Wind gage - 7/18/2005 5:36:29 PM

ericlaval32

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

Hi,

I have a proposition for the wind gage.

I think that when a fleet blockaded a port and the fleet in the port try to break the blocus, the wind gage will go at the fleet that blockaded the port.

Because, when (exemple 70 boats) try to leaves a port the other side will see that easily and can make an appropriate tactic. More, it's impossible that all the ships can leaves the port in the same time, that's will give to the blockading fleet another advantage.

Post #: 1

RE: Wind gage - 7/18/2005 11:29:09 PM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericlaval32
I think that when a fleet blockaded a port and the fleet in the port try to break the blocade, the wind gage will go at the fleet that blockaded the port.

This is an excellent suggestion. And it is also a standard rule in EiA. I hope that it can be incorporated in CoG.

(in reply to ericlaval32)

Post #: 2

RE: Wind gage - 7/20/2005 9:06:17 PM

ericbabe

Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
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That's a good idea. I've added it to the list of good ideas!

(in reply to dpstafford)

Post #: 3

RE: Wind gage - 7/21/2005 12:42:39 AM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

That's a good idea. I've added it to the list of good ideas!

Excellent!

(in reply to ericbabe)

Post #: 4

RE: Wind gage - 7/21/2005 4:32:49 PM

Eugene

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Joined: 7/19/2005
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Please consider that for obvious reasons the blockaded fleet could try to leave port and fight only if and when wind was in favor. The blockading fleet would in fact generally not stay very close to port leaving the surveillance to light ships that anyway had to stay out of reach of the port forts. With the wind against them the blockading fleet would have a lot of problems manouvering to avoid the sortie. IMHO it would be better to leave some possibility (ramdom factor, 10-20% maybe ?)that the blockaded fleet could leave port with wind in their favor. What has be suggested in the originating post starts from a correct assumption, but if implemented in that way it would make to easy for a small fleet to blockade in port forever a much larger force. This would unbalance the game and it is historically incorrect.

(in reply to ericlaval32)

Post #: 5

RE: Wind gage - 7/21/2005 6:57:16 PM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eugene
IMHO it would be better to leave some possibility (ramdom factor, 10-20% maybe ?)that the blockaded fleet could leave port with wind in their favor.

That is just what a war game needs--more random factors......

The blockading fleet should have an advantage (you are not denying that) and the easiest way to produce that is by giving them the wind gage.

(in reply to Eugene)

Post #: 6

RE: Wind gage - 7/21/2005 8:41:54 PM

ericlaval32

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

I think that if a blockading fleet is too small, the wind gage advantage will not help a lot against a big fleet that try to leave a port.

Eric

(in reply to dpstafford)

Post #: 7

RE: Wind gage - 7/21/2005 8:54:00 PM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericlaval32
I think that if a blockading fleet is too small, the wind gage advantage will not help a lot against a big fleet that try to leave a port.

Quite right!

(in reply to ericlaval32)

Post #: 8

RE: Wind gage - 7/21/2005 9:02:36 PM

Eugene

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Joined: 7/19/2005
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The easiest way has always the big advantage of being the easiest way, even when it is not the best way. Anyway this would make to easy for small forces to blockade large fleets in port and it could unbalance all naval warfare in the game. But you are right, there are already so many random factors in this game.....Do you really think another one would break the camel's back ? If we rule out adding more random factors (or adjusting the existing ones) we probably would not be able to see any patch.

(in reply to dpstafford)

Post #: 9

RE: Wind gage - 7/21/2005 9:29:48 PM

ericlaval32

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:

Anyway this would make to easy for small forces to blockade large fleets in port and it could unbalance all naval warfare in the game.

Excuse me Eugene, but i really don't understand the way you think.

Exemple: if you have 30 military ships blockades my 80 military ships, do you think that's too easy for you to beat me? No, I will beat you all the time. (Maybe if you play england, have your best ships and i play turkey with 80 transports ships, you will win but....)

And don't forget: If you want to be really accurate, "it's impossible to bring out a lot of ships from a port in the same time". That's more easy for the blockaded force to do that and the surprise effect when you left the port is near 0.

The wind gage advantage for the blockaded force is a way to show that.

Eric

(in reply to Eugene)

Post #: 10

RE: Wind gage - 7/21/2005 11:27:45 PM

Eugene

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Lets stick to reality, in your way maybe not 30, but for sure 40 or 50 english ships could blockade 80 french ships in Brest with a good chance of beating them if they would try to exit port without wind favor. Historically this is not very accurate, with wind in their favor the french would go out and 40 0r 50 english ships with the wind against them could do very little to avoid it, surprise or not. Anyway it is a game and I agree with the need to simplify things, but in this case I'm afraid your suggestion would give to much of an advantage to certain countries, especially Enland which would be able to succesfully blockade all enemy fleets in Europe with a fleet to spare. Historically this was never possible, here we are talking about blockading ports and fleets not about blockading trade, which England did
and is already able to do in the game. To close, Nelson would never go blockade Brest with a fleet smaller or at least not equivalent to the french fleet in port, but would certaily try to stop the trade flow out of Brest with just a few frigates.

(in reply to ericlaval32)

Post #: 11

RE: Wind gage - 7/22/2005 5:26:34 PM

gdpsnake

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Joined: 8/7/2000
From: Kempner, TX
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Why would a blockaded fleet try to sneak out without the wind in their favor in order to 'escape' from the blockading fleet.
If they wanted a fight, why try without the wind?

It's stupid to automatically give the gage to a blockading fleet. In fact, they might be at anchor or 'trolling' a good distance out to sea.

Realism actually favors the blockaded fleet but might 'shift' to the blockading fleet to represent a sudden change of wind or weather front.

French fleets (SOL's) didn't run the blockades because it wasn't Napoleon's intention to do so. In fact, he took most of the cannons off his ships for his army and used the sailors for infantry. The navy mainly rotted in port after 1805 much to the disappointment of the French admirals.

My 2 cents.

(in reply to Eugene)

Post #: 12

RE: Wind gage - 7/22/2005 5:40:36 PM

ian77

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From: Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gdpsnake

The navy mainly rotted in port after 1805 much to the disappointment of the French admirals.

They rotted in port rather than be sunk by the Royal Navy fleet that was blockading them in port. I dont think Napoleon wanted an impotent fleet.

Off the top of my head I cannot recall a blockaded fleet making for sea and defeating in a major engagement the blockading fleet.... the odd patrol frigate was defeated but not the main battle fleet... escaping a blockade usually involved "sneaking" out of port under conditions of poor visibility and often only a few ships at a time (9 times out of ten all they achieved was to become blockaded in a different port!)

The fleet enforcing the blockade should be given the advantage of the wind gauge IMHO because they are already at sea and if conditions do not favour them they can choose not to engage... in game this would be a successful evaision by the fleet attempting to avoid the blockading fleet.

(in reply to gdpsnake)

Post #: 13