Garrison in detailed battle

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Garrison in detailed battle - 7/24/2005 6:26:39 PM

Gratch
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When Im defending the garrison in the forts on the map do nothing to my enemy unless the enemy shoots at them, but when I invade the forts shoot at med the whole time on their own. How do I get the forts to shoot when Im defending?

Post #: 1

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/24/2005 6:31:48 PM

Danishguy
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put cursor over them and press e on keyboard that should wake them

(in reply to Gratch)

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RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/24/2005 7:37:30 PM

Joram
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Yes, what the previous guy said. And don't worry, it took me over a month to figure that one out.

(in reply to Danishguy)

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RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/27/2005 9:36:17 AM

Grand_Armee
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But doesn't the AI do that, as well? I used one French garrison unit as a corner piece in my "L" shaped Prussian line. It never fired a shot at me, and the hordes of French couldn't melee their own hex.

IMHO, I think the garrisons are a waste of valuable memory or CPU usage, or whatever term you might call it. Furthermore, they draw your AI enemy into wasting his units on them. IN one instance, the Don's with 5 inf and 4 cav Divs spent so much force on the garrisons that I only had to rout 3 of their units for them to waver and then break. I like a little bit of luck, sometimes. But a handout isn't what I'm looking for. I'd like to see these garrisons go bye-bye

(in reply to Joram)

Post #: 4

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/27/2005 12:10:16 PM

Reg Pither
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grand_Armee

I'd like to see these garrisons go bye-bye

I'd sort of agree with that, unless, as a previous poster on another thread suggested, defeating them all in Detailed battle actually counts as a successful seige on the Strategic map. So assuming you win the battle and defeat the garrisons during it, you have taken the province. But as it stands, the AI does spend too much effort attacking them for no obvious gain.

(in reply to Grand_Armee)

Post #: 5

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/27/2005 12:49:47 PM

ian77
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I once wiped out the garrison units, and upon winning the battle found the city undefended next turn, allowing me to walk in without a fight!!

(in reply to Reg Pither)

Post #: 6

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/27/2005 4:51:51 PM

carnifex
Matrix Elite Guard

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The garrison units should be just a bit more brittle and they wouldn't be such a factor.

Yesterday I was running some detailed battles as the Swedes fighting in Stockholm against the invading Russians. Every battle I would activate all my garrisons and sweep them around, effectively cordoning the entire attacking force. I played havoc with their supply units, made sure their disordered units routed promptly, and best of all, used the garrisons to surround retreating units forcing their surrender.

I won every battle, eventually capturing the successive Russian armies and most of their leaders (and the Danes too) - and that with the at-start Swedish forces in the 1792 scenario (on Napoleon difficulty).

I couldn't have done it without the garrisons.

< Message edited by carnifex -- 7/27/2005 4:53:45 PM >

(in reply to ian77)

Post #: 7

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/27/2005 4:57:57 PM

Reg Pither
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ian77

I once wiped out the garrison units, and upon winning the battle found the city undefended next turn, allowing me to walk in without a fight!!

Well if it does work like that, I've no problem at all with garrisons in Detailed battle. Sounds as though they are working logically and as designed.

(in reply to ian77)

Post #: 8

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/28/2005 2:25:12 AM

Ralegh
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This thread is confused, and confusing. Here are some facts:

Garrisons on the strategic map have NOTHING to do with garrisons on the detailed tactical map, and they don't affect or influence each other in any way.

Whether a garrison on the strategic map participates in combat is up to its owner (if you don't see the prompt every battle, it means you have turned it off in the options screen) - if it does participate, and that side loses, then the victor doesn't have to seige. (There is no 'send out all but one division' command.)

Garrisons on the tactical map come free, with the number depending on the GUNS level of the province. As someone like Austria, building up GUNS in a province is key to fighting off superior French forces. (And as the victor of a war, you can require the loser to reduce their overall number of GUNS!)

AI garrisons on the tactical map map make decisions on whether to fire to not - remaining fortified is very good for the longevity, so they want a good target before breaking their fortified status. Since they fire as heavy artillery, the ideal target is 3-7 hexes away, and they are well known for causing 500-1500 casulties on such a target about 1/3 of the time [these are my estimates from game play, not holy writ]. They are not very effective against units right up next to them, and are unlikely to break fortification to attack such units.

{And my views:}

Although the AI uses its garrisons more often in 1.0 than in did earlier, I personally think it should use them even more. I certainly use them much more than the AI does.
The AI's targetting of my garrisons is completely appropriate IF the garrison is sited to participate in the main battle. Sometimes the AI attacks garrisons that really don't matter to the battle. The AI's tactics against garrisons are excellent, with an appropriate use of all arms (ie. they use firepower to destroy the fortifications, and then charge the weak garrison unit, unless they manage to disorder the unit first, in which case they just take it out).
Garrisons provide a major assistance to the country being invaded (as do the supply rules) and represent a critical game balance factor. Without the garrisons, the aggressor would be much too powerful IMHO.

< Message edited by Ralegh -- 7/28/2005 2:26:59 AM >

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Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Reg Pither)

Post #: 9

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/28/2005 4:25:37 AM

siRkid
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If I place an Inf or Cav unit in a City and that province gets attacked and I rally the garrison to the defense, will those units show up in the tactical battle?

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(in reply to Ralegh)

Post #: 10

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/28/2005 5:23:41 AM

Ralegh
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Yes.

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RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/28/2005 12:56:36 PM

Latour_Maubourg
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quote:

The AI's targetting of my garrisons is completely appropriate IF the garrison is sited to participate in the main battle. Sometimes the AI attacks garrisons that really don't matter to the battle. The AI's tactics against garrisons are excellent, with an appropriate use of all arms (ie. they use firepower to destroy the fortifications, and then charge the weak garrison unit, unless they manage to disorder the unit first, in which case they just take it out).

I tend to disagree there with you. The other day I was fighting a battle against the Prussians and they engaged 5 units, 3 infantry and 2 cavalry, a total of around 46.000 (!) men against a 1250 strong garrison. leaving 1 arty and 1 infantry division against 80.000 french. Needless to say this battle was pretty short. After slaughtering the leftover divisions I attacked the rest from behind. And this was not a one off. I see it happen a lot.

my 2 cents...

L-M

_____________________________

"What have you got to cry about man, you have one less boot to polish in future." L-M's reaction at his distressed valet after his leg was shot off at Leipzig.

(in reply to Ralegh)

Post #: 12

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/28/2005 5:08:49 PM

carnifex
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Yes that's exactly how I destroy a lot of AI armies. They cluster around my garrison and I cluster around them. Couple of turns of point blank fire and they all surrender because they can't rout away.

(in reply to Latour_Maubourg)

Post #: 13

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/28/2005 7:35:39 PM

Malagant
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Latour_Maubourg

quote:

The AI's targetting of my garrisons is completely appropriate IF the garrison is sited to participate in the main battle. Sometimes the AI attacks garrisons that really don't matter to the battle. The AI's tactics against garrisons are excellent, with an appropriate use of all arms (ie. they use firepower to destroy the fortifications, and then charge the weak garrison unit, unless they manage to disorder the unit first, in which case they just take it out).

I tend to disagree there with you. The other day I was fighting a battle against the Prussians and they engaged 5 units, 3 infantry and 2 cavalry, a total of around 46.000 (!) men against a 1250 strong garrison. leaving 1 arty and 1 infantry division against 80.000 french. Needless to say this battle was pretty short. After slaughtering the leftover divisions I attacked the rest from behind. And this was not a one off. I see it happen a lot.

my 2 cents...

L-M

Agree with LM completely. This is the standard AI behavior.

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(in reply to Latour_Maubourg)

Post #: 14

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/28/2005 7:49:44 PM

ian77
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Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malagant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Latour_Maubourg

quote:

The AI's targetting of my garrisons is completely appropriate IF the garrison is sited to participate in the main battle. Sometimes the AI attacks garrisons that really don't matter to the battle. The AI's tactics against garrisons are excellent, with an appropriate use of all arms (ie. they use firepower to destroy the fortifications, and then charge the weak garrison unit, unless they manage to disorder the unit first, in which case they just take it out).

I tend to disagree there with you. The other day I was fighting a battle against the Prussians and they engaged 5 units, 3 infantry and 2 cavalry, a total of around 46.000 (!) men against a 1250 strong garrison. leaving 1 arty and 1 infantry division against 80.000 french. Needless to say this battle was pretty short. After slaughtering the leftover divisions I attacked the rest from behind. And this was not a one off. I see it happen a lot.

my 2 cents...

L-M

Agree with LM completely. This is the standard AI behavior.

I think it depends whether or not the AI units are placed near your garrison forces or not during the initial setup. If they start next to my supply wagons they always hit them first, then find my troops and fight the battle proper, only engaging garrison units if they are adjacent.

Ian

(in reply to Malagant)

Post #: 15

RE: Garrison in detailed battle - 7/28/2005 9:06:25 PM

Mynok
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Hmmm....learned something about garrisons. I have been blasted by them in the past and wondered why they caused such huge casualties. I also didn't know they could be woken up.

Not much use, since I stopped doing detailed battles (too easy). Now I need to go back and check on what guns do for quick combat. Surely they do something?

(in reply to ian77)

Post #: 16