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New map revision, Request For Comments. UPDATE 05-08-16... - 6/22/2005 4:47:31 PM   
Andrew Brown


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Hi all,

I am about to start a new update of my alternative War in the Pacific game map. I already have a few things in mind for this update, although nothing is certain at this stage. Some of the things I am already planning to change are:

  • Downgrade the central railway in Malaya (running from Kota Bharu to the Southwest). This line was a low capacity line that the Japanese did not make a lot of use of during the Malaya campaign (as far as I am aware), so I intend to downgrade it to either a road or a trail.
  • Add a trail between Kuantan and Mersing in Malaya. The Japanese advanced along this route during the Malaya campaign, so it should at least be possible to do that in the game as well.
  • Downgrade some of the roads in Norther China to trails: specifically the roads to the North of Yenen.
  • Make some other changes to the transport links in China (research not yet completed).
  • Replace the Chandpur and Cox's Bazaar bases with the port of Chittagong.
  • Add several new bases in India: Cuttack, Poona, Agra, Cawnpore plua a few others.
  • Some minor alterations to the Indian rail/transport network.
  • Remove the "river" between Hong Kong and the rest of China, and make HK an urban hex. This will need some playtsting first to see whether it is a viable change.
  • Make it impossible for ships to land/pickup LCUs in coastal swamp hexes, unless the hex contains a base.
  • Move some of the base and location names around to position them better (cosmetic change).
  • Change the name "Sulawesi" to "Celebes" (cosmetic change).
  • Rename a few more bases in the DEI to Dutch period names, instead of moderne ones.


2005-08-03: I have now posted an updated list of changes further down in this thread.

This could be the last update for a while (or the last update), so I want to get it right - or as right as possible anyway.

If anyone has any comments at all to make about my map and what could be added/changed/improved, now is the time to let me know. I think that there are a few things that people have already pointed out to me that I have forgotten. Please add any comments you may have here.

Thanks,
Andrew


< Message edited by Andrew Brown -- 8/16/2005 9:15:57 AM >


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Post #: 1
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/22/2005 5:42:40 PM   
mc3744


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I only have one comment: it's a GREAT map as it is

Can't wait to have it even better

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Post #: 2
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/22/2005 11:53:28 PM   
Tanaka


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Id like to request that the canal hexes be made into shallow water hexes...

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RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 12:00:57 AM   
Bradley7735


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I would like a version that has the lines for the Malaria zones (remember to include Norfolk Is), but NOT the lines for zones and regions.

I play CHS, so it'd have to be that one.

But, I'm happy with your may as is, so don't do it unless others want it (or you want it)

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Post #: 4
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 12:25:17 AM   
Lemurs!


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I would like some kind of link between Victoria Point and the rest of the world.
Trail would be fine if not a road.

Was Tavoy really that hard to get to from Bangkok?

How about a trail from Lamon Bay to the hex directly below it?
It would be accurate.

Thanks,
Mike

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Post #: 5
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 1:38:07 AM   
Bradley7735


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Hi Andrew,

I don't know if you want to copy Subchaser's thing with the symbols at bases to identify factories and stuff. That's something I'd like to see.

bc

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Post #: 6
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 2:01:32 AM   
CobraAus


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Hi mate to facilitate the introduction of Russian Pacific fleet ships into CHS I would request a new base created in Russia called Petropavlovsk it was the home port of the Pac Fleet see map attached for location
It was I think about a size 6 port with ship repair facilities
if you can do this I will se if I can find more details on it

Cobra Aus




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 7
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 3:06:04 AM   
jwilkerson


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I'd like to help out with the China research ... and I still contemplate the trails between Bankok and Moulmein ...

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Post #: 8
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 6:23:14 AM   
Mr.Frag


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Love to see a little (i) or something to make it easier to spot bases that have some form of industry for Japan that needs to be cared for and fed.

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Post #: 9
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 6:59:31 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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Andrew, I'm not sure that I see the need to add Chittagong. I always figured that it was abstracted into the Chandpur hex. Is Chittagong further away form Chandpur than 60 miles? Everything else sounds great!

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Post #: 10
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 3:09:13 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Andrew, I'm not sure that I see the need to add Chittagong. I always figured that it was abstracted into the Chandpur hex. Is Chittagong further away form Chandpur than 60 miles? Everything else sounds great!


Chittagong will probably replace Chandpur, and I will probably also tweak the map a little to make it align more easily with the hexes in this area (currently places such as Chittagong are located on hex boundaries when lined up with my map).

Andrew


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Post #: 11
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 4:05:24 PM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Andrew, I'm not sure that I see the need to add Chittagong. I always figured that it was abstracted into the Chandpur hex. Is Chittagong further away form Chandpur than 60 miles? Everything else sounds great!


Chittagong will probably replace Chandpur, and I will probably also tweak the map a little to make it align more easily with the hexes in this area (currently places such as Chittagong are located on hex boundaries when lined up with my map).

Andrew



Hi,

renaming it Chittagong would be nice because Chandpur apparently had no real importance as a military port during WW2. All sources only talk about Chittagong and Indian garrison forces were always deployed there.

As I wrote to you elswhere I'ld like to see the inclusion of Poona and Cuttack (and maybe additionally of Raipur). Even now Indian cities seem to be a little bit underrepresented.

Railways and Roads in India: Currently you have a railway line starting east of Nagpur connecting to the railway between Bhopal and Delhi. I have not found this railway (or a major highway) in this area. And if you'ld want to include Poona the railway junction east of Bombay (the rr to Panaji) should be located one hex eastward (at Poona). And are you sure that there was a trail along the coast between Bombay and Panaji?

Another proposal: What about some small ports/beaches in Australia and New Zealand (Picton, Invercargill, Whangarei, Gisborne, Gladstone, Maryborough, Mackay, Taree and such places). Making all of them (0)/(0) hexes (maybe Invercargill with a level 1 port already build)

K

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Post #: 12
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 8:13:03 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

Chittagong will probably replace Chandpur...

Andrew



Will this make Chittagong invisible to the AI (and hence immune to attack)?

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Post #: 13
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 9:34:07 PM   
m10bob


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Purely for cosmetic/historical "flavor",I would eventually like to see "The Bungo Straits" and "Kokoda".If not for historical reasons,as points of interest..

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Post #: 14
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 6/23/2005 10:15:22 PM   
Bradley7735


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Purely for cosmetic/historical "flavor",I would eventually like to see "The Bungo Straits" and "Kokoda".If not for historical reasons,as points of interest..


You're talking about text on the map, right? If so, I agree with you as long as it doesn't clutter up the map too much. In general, I'd like to see more text on the map (base names and m10bob's suggestions), but only to the extent that the visual pleasure of the map is not compromised. (and it is VERY pleasing to the eyes right now.)

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Post #: 15
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 7/17/2005 3:06:16 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Purely for cosmetic/historical "flavor",I would eventually like to see "The Bungo Straits" and "Kokoda".If not for historical reasons,as points of interest..


You're talking about text on the map, right? If so, I agree with you as long as it doesn't clutter up the map too much. In general, I'd like to see more text on the map (base names and m10bob's suggestions), but only to the extent that the visual pleasure of the map is not compromised. (and it is VERY pleasing to the eyes right now.)


I am going to put some more text on the map in places such as straits and minor seas, although I don't want to clutter up the map too much either.


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Post #: 16
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 7/17/2005 3:07:21 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

Hi mate to facilitate the introduction of Russian Pacific fleet ships into CHS I would request a new base created in Russia called Petropavlovsk it was the home port of the Pac Fleet see map attached for location
It was I think about a size 6 port with ship repair facilities
if you can do this I will se if I can find more details on it

Cobra Aus



Petroplavosk is already on the map - or are you thinking of another location with the same or similar name?

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Post #: 17
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 7/17/2005 10:48:08 AM   
doktorblood


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Are there any rivers on New Guinea or Australia?

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RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 7/17/2005 1:42:54 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: doktorblood

Are there any rivers on New Guinea or Australia?


Both New Guinea and Australia have rivers on my map. Not many in Australia, but then it doesn't have many large rivers.



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Post #: 19
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 7/17/2005 9:33:16 PM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: doktorblood

Are there any rivers on New Guinea or Australia?


Both New Guinea and Australia have rivers on my map. Not many in Australia, but then it doesn't have many large rivers.




regarding river terrain:

curious but arent these all similiar situations???

hong kong
singapore
corrigador

all protected by water crossings in some way???

i guess thats why i see them as all needing river type terrain to cross into....


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Post #: 20
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 7/17/2005 9:39:01 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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I agree with Hong Kong and Singapore, but Corregidor is not a base in WITP, but rather a fortress shared between the Bataan and Manila bases, so there is no way to add a river there.

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Post #: 21
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 7/17/2005 11:58:08 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
regarding river terrain:

curious but arent these all similiar situations???

hong kong
singapore
corrigador

all protected by water crossings in some way???

i guess thats why i see them as all needing river type terrain to cross into....



Not Corrigador, as it is not represented separately at this scale. As for Hong Kong, it originally didn't have a river - I added it to see whether I could make HK last longer (i.e. equivalent to historical). It didn't really work very well, and I am looking at alternatives for HK that will require some playesting. The river at HK might stay, however.


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Post #: 22
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 7/18/2005 12:00:31 AM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
regarding river terrain:

curious but arent these all similiar situations???

hong kong
singapore
corrigador

all protected by water crossings in some way???

i guess thats why i see them as all needing river type terrain to cross into....



Not Corrigador, as it is not represented separately at this scale. As for Hong Kong, it originally didn't have a river - I added it to see whether I could make HK last longer (i.e. equivalent to historical). It didn't really work very well, and I am looking at alternatives for HK that will require some playesting. The river at HK might stay, however.



should singapore and hong kong be made islands (atolls) ???


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Post #: 23
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 8/3/2005 7:48:35 AM   
Andrew Brown


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Here is an expanded list of the changes coming in version 4 of my map. China is still being revised, which is delaying things, and further changes will probably be made there.



Fixes:


  1. There is now a river between Singapore and Johore Bahru
  2. The reef hexside immediately to the West of Palau was not represented in the map data. Fixed.


Changes:

  1. Coastal swamp hexes can not now be used for the landing or picking up of ground forces, unless the hex contains a base. This has been achieved by converting these hexes to land or ocean hexes, depending on the nearby terrain.
  2. A new transport link type has been introduced on this version of the map - low capacity rail. This is simply road, but drawn differently, to represent those railways, narrow gauge or otherwise, that could not handle large volumes of traffic. Most of the rail lines in China have been downgraded to this type of "railway" except for the main lines linking Shanghai, Tsingtao, Peking, Tientsin, Harbin and Seoul, as well as the connection between Canton and Hong Kong.
  3. Apart from China, a few other rail lines, which were narrow gauge and/or low capacity lines, have been "downgraded" by converting the corresponding map data to road, and by using a new graphic for "Secondary" rail lines. The most significant of these is the central railway in Malaya, running South from Kota Bharu.
  4. The transport network in India has been modified. The rail link from Raipur North through the forest hexes has been downgraded to a "Secondary" line and truncated. A smal number of new rail lines have also been added in India due to the addition of several new bases.
  5. The coastal road in China, between Swatow and Wenchow, has been removed.
  6. Several roads in Northern China, near Lanchow, Tatung and Yenan, have been downgraded to trails.
  7. Chungking is now on the correct (Northwest) side of the Yangtze river.
  8. Ichang is now only connected to Chungking by a trail.
  9. The transport link in the single hex (43,31) to the Northeast of Chungking has been converted from trail to road.
  10. The transport link in the hex containing the base of Rahaeng in Siam (31,36) has been converted from trail to road. This should make it a little faster for Japanese units to march to/from Burma.
  11. The hex containing Hong Kong (43,42) has been converted from clear to urban terrain.
  12. The transport link in the hex formerly containing the base of Takao in Formosa (47,46) has been downgraded from road to trail.
  13. A number of base names in the Dutch East Indies have been changed:

    • Bula -> Boela
    • Banjarmasin -> Bandjermasin
    • Macassar -> Makassar

  14. The road between Bandjermasin and Balikpapan has been truncated, so that these two bases are no longer connected.
  15. Moulmein is now - correctly - on the South side of the Salween river.
  16. The base of Yanam (21,21) in India has been replaced by the base of Vizagapatam (22,21).
  17. The base of Chandpur (31,25) has been renamed Chittagong, which was a much more important port.
  18. Dacca has "moved" from hex 32,24 to hex 31,23, which places it a more correct distance from Calcutta. This also improves the correct placement of Chittagong. The mouths of the Brahmaputra river have also been adjusted to suit.
  19. The transport link in the hex containing Kuantan (24,48) in Malaya has been upgraded from trail to road.
  20. Saigon (31,45) has been changed from urban to clear terrain.


Additions:

  1. A number of new base locations have been added in India: Poona (19,12), Cuttack (27,22), Agra (28,11), Cawnpore (28,13), Mangalore (14,17), Jaipur (26,9), Madurai (13,21) and Patna (30,19).
  2. All Indian bases have had their manpower, heavy industry and resource vaules modified and recalculated. The manpower values in particular were not very accurate previously.
  3. An atoll has been added in the location of Male, in the Maldives (5,22), to provide the option of adding a base here.
  4. A trail now links the Lamon Bay and Manila hexes in the Philippines.
  5. A new base location has been added for Skagway in Alaska (122,28), and the railway between Whilehorse and Juneau now terminates here.
  6. A new base location has been added for Whittier, in Alaska (114,28) and a railway connects this hex to Anchorage.




< Message edited by Andrew Brown -- 8/3/2005 7:59:38 AM >


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Post #: 24
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 8/3/2005 8:31:25 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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When you rename Chandpur as Chittagong, I assume that it retains the same base number. Does anyone know if the AI is designed to go after certain base names, numbers, or just bases of a certain size that are nearby? I suppose that it is no big deal, since I've never seen the AI invade India beyond Imphal and the other bases on the frontier. I still play as if it might, just because I try to maintain a realistic feel to my games...

I'm guessing that Whitehorse is mispelled only in your post, not on the map.

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Post #: 25
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 8/3/2005 8:48:20 AM   
Tanaka


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Andrew these changes look great! Thanks for all your hard work!!!

Also...should Victoria Point and Tavoy be connected by trail? I saw that Lemurs had mentioned this...

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Post #: 26
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 8/3/2005 9:13:54 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

When you rename Chandpur as Chittagong, I assume that it retains the same base number. Does anyone know if the AI is designed to go after certain base names, numbers, or just bases of a certain size that are nearby? I suppose that it is no big deal, since I've never seen the AI invade India beyond Imphal and the other bases on the frontier. I still play as if it might, just because I try to maintain a realistic feel to my games...

I'm guessing that Whitehorse is mispelled only in your post, not on the map.


At a guess, I would say base numbers, and possibly base sizes. I doubt that the AI code would look at the names. I hope not anyway, since I have changed so many of them!

Yes Whitehorse is only a mistake in my notes, not the map. Will fix it - thanks.


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(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 27
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 8/3/2005 9:21:59 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
...should Victoria Point and Tavoy be connected by trail? I saw that Lemurs had mentioned this...


There is a problem with connecting Victoria Point, which I mentioned to Lemurs when he suggested it - if a connection is added between the Victoria Point hex and the adjacent hex which contains a railway, then units moving FROM the hex with the railway TO Victoria Point would do so in one day, as they would move at the railway rate, even if Victoria Point itself is only given a trail link type. Conversely units moving FROM Victoria Point TO the rail hex would move at the trail rate (assuming Victoria Point is given a trail). It is unrealistic to allow anyone to travel across the ithsmus to Vic Point in one day. In real life I think it took the Japanese 10 days or so to cross (before they built a railway).

Remember that link type is allocated on a per-hex basis, not per-hexside, unfortunately. That is the way the link types are represented and there is nothing I can do about it.

The maps I have seen do not have a link between Victoria Point and Tavoy. of course I may be looking at the wrong maps...

Andrew

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Post #: 28
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 8/3/2005 9:25:30 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
When you rename Chandpur as Chittagong, I assume that it retains the same base number.


Oh - I forgot to add - yes it retains the same base number.

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Post #: 29
RE: New revision of my map - Request For Comments - 8/3/2005 9:29:40 AM   
jwilkerson


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Purely cosmetic - but haven't we been trying to use the names as they were at the time - if so should we use Celebes versus Sulawesi ?



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Post #: 30
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