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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Lock ‘n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad >> Rules

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Rules - 8/3/2005 11:54:34 AM

Ekted

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/3/2005
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I recently decided to try wargaming again. My past year of boardgaming obsession has inevitably exposed me to many wargames on BGG. LnL:BoH seems to be just the right game for me. Will a full set of the rules ever be available online? I feel this can only be a good thing for sales. I have purchased many board games that I was otherwise not interested in as a result of reading their rules.

Eagerly awaiting the release!

Post #: 1

RE: Rules - 8/3/2005 1:43:05 PM

crabe tambour

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: France
Status: offline

Hi Ekted
here : http://www.locknloadgame.com/ you will have the rules for infantry combat and a free demo to download to paly a couple of scenarios. It could give a good idea And Mark posted here a report about armor combats. It explains well how it works.
Best,
Olivier

(in reply to Ekted)

Post #: 2

RE: Rules - 8/3/2005 10:04:39 PM

Ekted

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/3/2005
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Yes I've seen all that, but reading the complete rules is the only way I can truly evaluate the game.

(in reply to crabe tambour)

Post #: 3

RE: Rules - 8/3/2005 11:51:22 PM

Cherper

Posts: 29
Joined: 7/17/2002
From: Carson City, Nevada
Status: offline

I for one see no reason to post the entire rules on-line. With VASSAL, CyberBoard and other utilities, what would stop someone from just downloading the rules, and nothing else.

(in reply to Ekted)

Post #: 4

RE: Rules - 8/4/2005 12:29:46 AM

Ekted

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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What's to stop someone from scanning and posting the rules anyways? The value of the game, for me at least, is the boards and counters. The rules will make the difference between me buying it and not buying it. If I have no rules to evaluate the game by, then I will have to get an extremely detailed account of play from someone else. I loved the animated sample of play, but that doesn't come close to enough information. Most games I have bought without reading the rules first I have regretted. So much so, in fact, that I have removed from my want list any games whose rules are not available online (eg Age of Steam).

(in reply to Cherper)

Post #: 5

RE: Rules - 8/4/2005 9:04:46 PM

Magua

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
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The demo rules if not complete, seem to me to be fairly comprehensive, and actually include sections that are not included in the demo scenario. Coupled with the online animated sample, there is easily enough there to make a determination of purchase. In fact Eksted, I decided to purchase Band of Heroes because of the demo, as well as the posted photos that indicate the obvious high quality of production.

quote:

What's to stop someone from scanning and posting the rules anyways?

That would be wrong. And just because someone can do this, doesn't mean it's a good idea for Matrix or Mark to publish the final, complete rules themselves. There's not much you can do to stop thieves of intellectual property, but you don't have to help them out either. Also, I'm pretty sure a lively in-depth discussion on nuances in the final rules themselves before we have all had a chance to see the entire game in the flesh would not be all that productive.

Be patient amigo. We're all anxious for the birth of this baby, and I think it's safe to say from all the info already provided, that it will deliver what it has promised.

(in reply to Ekted)

Post #: 6

RE: Rules - 8/5/2005 1:25:45 AM

Ekted

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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Sorry, I'm not trying to be critical of Matrix. I am already 95% sure I'm going to buy this game. If I could see the complete rules, I would probably pre-order it. I'll just have to wait for someone on BGG to buy it so I can ask enough questions to fill in the 5%.

(in reply to Magua)

Post #: 7

RE: Rules - 8/5/2005 7:17:47 AM

Ekted

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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Wow my bad. I wasn't looking at the right file. The demo rules are very detailed. Is there a list of changes/additions from the original LnL to the new BoH ones? Is it simply different units, map, and scenarios, or are there new concepts as well?

(in reply to Ekted)

Post #: 8

RE: Rules - 8/5/2005 7:51:31 AM

Magua

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
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Ahhh. Okay. Now it make sense to me. The demo is pretty much the complte game, so I couldn't figure out why you weren't getting the info you wanted. Well, I'm glad you got it straightened out.

I can't help you on possible rules revisions. I'm not a fan of Viet Nam gaming so I didn't get past the original demo. But I'm a big fan of WWII Para battle gaming

. Some of the other guys here might be able to though.

(in reply to Ekted)

Post #: 9

RE: Rules - 8/5/2005 12:09:52 PM

Ekted

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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Are the rules that come with the game very similar to "Demo Rule Lock 'n Load Rev 2.pdf", or are they completely different? I gave them a once-through, and find that it feels like an overview, but not a complete set of rules. Or perhaps it all makes sense to seasoned wargamers. For example:

- What is meant by "spotting attempts do not require an impulse"?

- I'm fuzzy on what I can do, and in what order, with unit(s) that I activate. Can I activate 2 units, spot with one, and fire at the spotted hex with the other in the same impulse? Can I ever do a combination of spot/fire/move with a single unit? Putting all this info together in a single section would help tremendously rather than having to infer it from 12 different places. Or maybe a really complex example that has a bit of everything.

- If I activate 3 units with different mavement factors, can I move the unit with the highest factor its full range, or do they all have to stop in the same place?

- If a good order leader activates units in several hexes, how do you handle them all moving together when they didn't start together, or all firing together when they may all have different range, degrading terrain, LOS?

Thanks.

(in reply to Magua)

Post #: 10

RE: Rules - 8/9/2005 4:47:28 PM

markhwalker

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Joined: 1/29/2005
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quote:

but reading the complete rules is the only way I can truly evaluate the game.

Understand, but I have no plans to post them online right now. As posted earlier, with the VASSAL mod, etc out there, that could lose sales.

Band of Heroes is a Lock 'n Load game, it has the exact rules as the original, with tweaks to armor and arty.

Best,
Mark

(in reply to Ekted)

Post #: 11

RE: Rules - 8/14/2005 3:34:05 PM

Magua

Posts: 112
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From: Phoenix, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ekted

- What is meant by "spotting attempts do not require an impulse"?

- I'm fuzzy on what I can do, and in what order, with unit(s) that I activate. Can I activate 2 units, spot with one, and fire at the spotted hex with the other in the same impulse? Can I ever do a combination of spot/fire/move with a single unit? Putting all this info together in a single section would help tremendously rather than having to infer it from 12 different places. Or maybe a really complex example that has a bit of everything.

- If I activate 3 units with different mavement factors, can I move the unit with the highest factor its full range, or do they all have to stop in the same place?

- If a good order leader activates units in several hexes, how do you handle them all moving together when they didn't start together, or all firing together when they may all have different range, degrading terrain, LOS?

Thanks.

I bumped this post cuz Ekted asks what I think are pretty good questions. I'm a little fuzzy on some of these points myself.

(in reply to Ekted)

Post #: 12

RE: Rules - 8/15/2005 12:16:50 AM

Ekted

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There has been some discussion of my questions on BGG:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekforum.php3?action=viewthread&threadid=74837

It's starting to click a bit more now.

(in reply to Magua)

Post #: 13

RE: Rules - 9/8/2005 6:46:36 AM

stanguay

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ekted
- What is meant by "spotting attempts do not require an impulse"?

It means that you can spot with one unit in one hex and, wheter or not the spotting attempt is successfull, you can still undertake the whole range of actions allowed in a regular impulse i.e. you could activate a different hex. If you rather don't do anything after you spotting attempt, you are considered as passing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ekted
- I'm fuzzy on what I can do, and in what order, with unit(s) that I activate. Can I activate 2 units, spot with one, and fire at the spotted hex with the other in the same impulse? Can I ever do a combination of spot/fire/move with a single unit?

I envision activation in terms of hexes instead of units. In a given impulse, you can activate one hex (or more if you have a leader). Inside an activate hex, some units may fire, some may move and some may do nothing, remaining available for further activation in a later impulse. All units that fire in a given impulse and a given hex must do so together and all units that move in a given impulse and from a given hex must do so together.

One given hex can be activatedmore than one time, provided it is activated in different impulse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ekted
- If I activate 3 units with different mavement factors, can I move the unit with the highest factor its full range, or do they all have to stop in the same place?

You know, I have never see this happens in all the games I've played but if this was to happen (meaning that I want to move all those units in the same impulse and from the same hex), I would indeed have to move them together thus, they would all stop in the same place. To avoid that, I would simply activate those units in different impulse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ekted
- If a good order leader activates units in several hexes, how do you handle them all moving together when they didn't start together, or all firing together when they may all have different range, degrading terrain, LOS?

You do this hex by hex so units in one hex do indeed have same LOS obstacles and such. And if the target is out of range for some of the units in the activated hex, then just don't don anything with these units and just fire with those who can reach the target.

I really recommand that you play the game and see how it play out instead of asking questions out of the rulebook. Things will become much more obvious by then.

(in reply to Magua)

Post #: 14

RE: Rules - 9/8/2005 6:47:41 AM

stanguay

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ekted

There has been some discussion of my questions on BGG:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekforum.php3?action=viewthread&threadid=74837

It's starting to click a bit more now.

I have also replied to some of your pending questions there. Hope that help :-)

(in reply to Ekted)

Post #: 15