BBC - Hiroshima

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

BBC - Hiroshima

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> BBC - Hiroshima

Page: [1] 2 3 4 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 2:14:53 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

Hi all,

For those who get BBC this Sunday at 21:00 there is a program on the A-bombing of Hiroshima, re-creating some of it I believe and talking to those who dropped the bomb and those who saw it/endured it.

Should be interesting.

Steven

_____________________________

WitE 2 Tester
WitE Tester
BTR/BoB Tester

Post #: 1

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 2:35:51 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline

I already saw it last weekend.

They talk to the people who loaded and actually ARMED the weapon, they also talk to survivors of the bomb and their stories. One of the most haunting scene's is the footage of modern day Hiroshima where they show the imprints of human bodies burned into the stone forever........

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 2

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 2:40:01 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

Sheesh. Does sound haunting!

Worth a watch then?

_____________________________

WitE 2 Tester
WitE Tester
BTR/BoB Tester

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 3

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 3:11:05 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline

Yeah definatly, it was a very nice and educative program...

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 4

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 3:17:58 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

Will watch it then.

There you go then all. BBC 1 21:00 Sunday 07th August 2005

_____________________________

WitE 2 Tester
WitE Tester
BTR/BoB Tester

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 5

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 4:41:57 PM

keeferon01

Posts: 334
Joined: 6/18/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Im trying to remember a documentary some years back, when the atomic bomber crews went back to Japan, I wonder if anybody else remembers this docu.

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 6

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 5:54:40 PM

M�tzeglatze

Posts: 12
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Deutschland !!!!
Status: offline

I Saw it too,on Tuesdayevening in Germany on ZDF.It was really Interessting.

(in reply to keeferon01)

Post #: 7

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 6:19:21 PM

USSLockwood

Posts: 543
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

ok, here's a firestorm of debate:
Was it the A-bombing or the Soviet declaration of war the forced Japan to capitulate?

(in reply to M�tzeglatze)

Post #: 8

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 6:25:20 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

probably more the Abomb since it was rather closer to home. The Japanese were aware for some time of the Soviet buildup but they were in "wishful thinking" mode. Many Japanese were looking for a way out anyway before both events occured....the Abomb droppings, followed by the latest bad news from the front just allowed the doves and the Emperor to win out over the hawks.....but even then it was a close thing since Hawk elements tried to thwart the Emperor's broadcast.

_____________________________

(in reply to USSLockwood)

Post #: 9

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 6:26:42 PM

LittleJoe

Posts: 610
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline

Id say moreso the Soviet declaration, they had been trying to gain peace with the allies through them, must of realised it was eiether total distruction of Japan, or surrender.

And the two atomic bombs no doubt made them realease that that destruction could come a lot quicker to them, with little allied loss, no "decisive battle" on the mainland.

_____________________________

(in reply to USSLockwood)

Post #: 10

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 6:33:06 PM

USSLockwood

Posts: 543
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

I read recently that the Japanese scientific community was of the opinion that the U.S. could not have more than a few bombs (by bomb, I am referring, of course, to fission weapons). Physics in Japan at that time was world class (and of course remains so today). I've read "Hirohitio and the making of Modern Japan" and the impression I got was that the threat of a worker's revolution (aided by the fortuitous presence of the Red Army) was the final straw. Just my humble opinion.

(in reply to LittleJoe)

Post #: 11

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 6:44:12 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

I wonder why this would be "Firestorm" of controversy anyway? a destroyed fleet...cut off from resources and imports.....people starving....cities burned to the ground......now we have Abombs and Soviets......threat of home island invasion......

take your pick. In the end they surrendered. thats all that matters. no more fighting...no more death

_____________________________

(in reply to USSLockwood)

Post #: 12

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 6:45:02 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor

I read recently that the Japanese scientific community was of the opinion that the U.S. could not have more than a few bombs (by bomb, I am referring, of course, to fission weapons). Physics in Japan at that time was world class (and of course remains so today). I've read "Hirohitio and the making of Modern Japan" and the impression I got was that the threat of a worker's revolution (aided by the fortuitous presence of the Red Army) was the final straw. Just my humble opinion.

A couple books I read both seemed to be of the opinion that it could have been a combination of two atomic bombs AND the entry of the Soviet Union into the war which was the last straw for the Japanese to finally surrender.

I never visisted Hiroshima but I did get tha chance to visit Nagasaki when the Midway pulled into Sasebo. Visiting ground zero and the museum/park they had there was a sombering experience (though I am not sorry the US dropped the bombs). I AM still surprised that some Marines made it out of Nagasaki alive though - they were tacky enough to wear t-shirts with a mushroom cloud on it saying "Made in America Tested in Japan".

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to USSLockwood)

Post #: 13

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 6:58:54 PM

LittleJoe

Posts: 610
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ering experience (though I am not sorry the US dropped the bombs). I AM still surprised that some Marines made it out of Nagasaki alive though - they were tacky enough to wear t-shirts with a mushroom cloud on it saying "Made in America Tested in Japan".

I dont think tacky is the word for that.

_____________________________

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 14

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 7:10:05 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleJoe

quote:

ering experience (though I am not sorry the US dropped the bombs). I AM still surprised that some Marines made it out of Nagasaki alive though - they were tacky enough to wear t-shirts with a mushroom cloud on it saying "Made in America Tested in Japan".

I dont think tacky is the word for that.

I agree. On the bus from the ship to Nagasaki they were very boisterous like they were going to a party. On the way back to the ship they were VERY quiet.

It's been over 20 years so I'm not sure if any of the senior sailors on the trip made any comments to the MARDET commander or not but I do remember there were some chiefs and senior chiefs were were pretty upset that they'd wear something like that off the ship and in Japan of all places. Anybody who has served in the Navy knows that you do not want to upset chiefs.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to LittleJoe)

Post #: 15

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:04:19 PM

usersatch

Posts: 400
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: offline

I saw the tail end of some program on PBS the other nite. It was full of A-bomb apologists saying there was no need to drop the bomb, casualties from the invasion wouldnt have been too bad, etc. My favorite was someone saying that it was unenthical to use the A-bomb on civilians...like the multi-hundred B-29 incediary raids on Jap cities killing as many people was OK???

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 16

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:12:41 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

The entire bomber war is wrought with hair splitting exercises.

_____________________________

(in reply to usersatch)

Post #: 17

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:31:39 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: usersatch

I saw the tail end of some program on PBS the other nite. It was full of A-bomb apologists saying there was no need to drop the bomb, casualties from the invasion wouldnt have been too bad, etc. My favorite was someone saying that it was unenthical to use the A-bomb on civilians...like the multi-hundred B-29 incediary raids on Jap cities killing as many people was OK???

I'm very prejudiced against the Japanese (despite being stationed there on the Midway for 3 years) because the Japanese have NEVER apologized for Pearl Harbor. I also remember seeing a show where a Japanese veteran mentioned the Japanese attempt to build an atomic bomb and stated flat-out that had they developed one they surely would have used it.

Anyways, here is data from page 2,551 of "History of the Second World War", edited by Sir Basil Liddell Hart:

Line up for Operation Olympic:

Troops:
Japanese - 2,300,000 regular troops PLUS 28,000,000 local volunteers
Allies - 650,000 regular troops

Aircraft:
Japanese - 5,350 (confused here but it also implies another 5,350 Kamikaze or that all were Kamikaze)
Allied: 9,000

Aircraft Carriers:
Japanese - 0
Allied - 20

Battleships:
Japanese - 0
Allied - 9

Cruisers:
Japanese - 0
Allied - 22

Destroyers:
Japanese - 19
Allied - 80

Special attack craft (Kamikaze):
Japanese - 3,300

Here's the text that is below the chart word for word:
"The regular Japanese troops facing the 'Olympic' invasion vastly outnumbered the assault force; and in addition to their regular forces the Japanese hoped to mobilise a huge volunteer army, armed mostly with bamboo spears. The US and British naval task forces had no direct opposite numbers at all, for the once-powerful Japanese fleet had been whittled down to vanishing-point in the Battles of the Philippine Sea, of Leyte Gulf, and of Okinawa. But the Japanese fleet of kamikaze vessels - each of them intended to eliminate an enemy ship - could theoretically wipe out the entire invasion fleet; and this was only the naval element of Japan's suicide defence force - exactly half the remaining Japanese aircraft were kamikaze machines. And this was only the battle for Kyushu ... "

It's easy to second-guess things 60 years later but with the 1945-mindset, after the costs of taking just Iwo Jima and Okinawa, Truman's decision to use the bomb was almost a sure thing.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to usersatch)

Post #: 18

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:41:55 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

I dont necessarily believe that the Japanese 'owe' us an apology for PH since they never intended to attack it before declaring war. Granted this is a hair splitting exercise in that the attack was meant to go off 30minutes after war was declared (would this have lessened American anger any? not much IMO)

Just to play devil's advocate it has been argued that at least PH was a military target and wars in the past have been started without warning. What was later done to the Japanese in retaliation I think more than made up for PH if one wants to count the revenge score.

What does concern me though and where i think apologies are due...is with Japan's treatment of POW's and her record in China and Asia, China in particular has the greatest grievience with Japan. I'm also concerned with current Japanese revisionism that seems bent on not accepting her role in the war and denying that atrocities were done by her military forces (that didn't go down very well in Nanking recently)

The Germans officially accepted their responsibilty for what the Nazi government had done but by and large from what i've read, Japan has not. Even an attempt to understand the radical differences in Japanese culture from the West really dont excuse this IMO.

Anyway as far as PH is concerned....i think it is at least gratifying to see vets from both sides come together and embrace friendship in peacetime. They are a model to live up to.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 8/5/2005 8:56:59 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 19

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:45:23 PM

USSLockwood

Posts: 543
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

I seem to recall that the Japanese were either planning for, or considering, the use of chemical weapons in the event of an invasion of the home islands. If the situation had been reversed, and a triumphant Axis was poised to land on the east and west coast of the U.S., would we have (with apologies to A. Lincoln) 'given up with unplayed cards in our hand'? At the very least, the Japanese people would have experienced all that the German people east of the Elbe did.

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 20

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:50:19 PM

Tenzan

Posts: 101
Joined: 6/5/2004
Status: offline

I don't know if there's too much of a need to debate if you accept that Japan needed (and wanted ) to find an 'out' of the war but, was finding a difficult time of consolidating enough political power in one place to get a surrender through, barring extraordinary circumstances....This, I think, is what the A-Bombings provided-the straw that broke the camel's back, as it were...It provided an acceptable way to back the call to throw in the towel..I read alot of this sentiment in Showa's surrender rescript.

Not to take anything away from the ferocity and shock of the Soviet invasion of Manchu- It was such a good operation that it served as the inspiration for the U.S.'s 1991 lightning attack in Kuwait/Iraq.."August Storm" became the namesake for "Desert Storm" (funny military trivia there)however, I just don't see the Japanese reaction to this setback as exceptional enough to cause the Japanese to accept giving up (in and of itself)

I can't say I'm particualrly 'for' or 'against' the decision to drop them...I just accept it as 'just the way it went down' as it were...I guess the best that can be said about it is that, by using them, It created enough of a taboo that they havent been used since...And that's a GOOD thing. -and you can bet the house that we would have used them in Korea...possibly against the Chinese...The results of that scenario are pretty darned not good...as an understatement.

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 21

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:52:16 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

What does concern me though and where i think apologies are due...is with Japan's treatment of POW's and her record in China and Asia, China in particular has the greatest grievience with Japan. I'm also concerned with current Japanese revisionism that seems bent on not accepting her role in the war and denying that atrocities were done by her military forces (that didn't go down very well in Nanking recently)

I should have been more specific. When I meant Pearl Harbor I meant generally for initiating the war in the first place.

On January 18, 1990 the mayor of Nagasaki was shot in the back at point-blank range for daring to say that Emperor Hirohito was partly to blame for the conflict. All countries involved in WWII, except Japan, has acknowledged things they did that were not necesarily right to do and have in one way or another apologized. Until Japan accepts their fair share of the blame for the war (and god knows there's plenty of blame to spread around) I can't feel sorry one bit for the way the US ended it.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 22

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:54:12 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tenzan

I don't know if there's too much of a need to debate if you accept that Japan needed (and wanted ) to find an 'out' of the war but, was finding a difficult time of consolidating enough political power in one place to get a surrender through, barring extraordinary circumstances....This, I think, is what the A-Bombings provided-the straw that broke the camel's back, as it were...It provided an acceptable way to back the call to throw in the towel..I read alot of this sentiment in Showa's surrender rescript.

Not to take anything away from the ferocity and shock of the Soviet invasion of Manchu- It was such a good operation that it served as the inspiration for the U.S.'s 1991 lightning attack in Kuwait/Iraq.."August Storm" became the namesake for "Desert Storm" (funny military trivia there)however, I just don't see the Japanese reaction to this setback as exceptional enough to cause the Japanese to accept giving up (in and of itself)

I can't say I'm particualrly 'for' or 'against' the decision to drop them...I just accept it as 'just the way it went down' as it were...I guess the best that can be said about it is that, by using them, It created enough of a taboo that they havent been used since...And that's a GOOD thing. -and you can bet the house that we would have used them in Korea...possibly against the Chinese...The results of that scenario are pretty darned not good...as an understatement.

I personally have the belief that neither the Soviets entering the war NOR the atomic bombings alone would have provided the Japanese with enough of a "shock" but the two coming so close together did.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Tenzan)

Post #: 23

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 8:55:25 PM

usersatch

Posts: 400
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: offline

I read that the US had chemical weapons ready for Op Downfall as well. Dont know what kind, but it doesnt really matter. We dodged a HUGE bloodbath with the A-bomb.

I too, dont think that Japan needs to apologize for PH. I think apologies are pretty meaningless coming from a country 60 years after the fact. BUT, the fact that Japan refuses to even admit to their war crimes in China (Singapore, Nanking, Unit 731, POWs, etc) makes me pissed and the entire country of China as well. The Germans have been very forthcoming (it took a while) about the role of the 3d Reich in WW2, I wish the Japanese would as well.

(in reply to USSLockwood)

Post #: 24

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 9:00:21 PM

51st Highland Div

Posts: 347
Joined: 7/23/2005
From: Glasgow,Scotland
Status: offline

Yep the A-bombs ended the requirement for the bloodbath for both sides that invasion would have brought about.I heard on the BBC Five Live the "Shockwave" author being interviewed and saying that as Nagasaki was being bombed a B29 was on its way to the US to pick up the 3rd A-bomb.

_____________________________

https://i.ibb.co/SRBTPGK/hmsglasgowmatrix.jpg
______________________________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves....

Banner thanks to RogueUSMC

(in reply to usersatch)

Post #: 25

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 9:14:01 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: usersatch

The Germans have been very forthcoming (it took a while) about the role of the 3d Reich in WW2, I wish the Japanese would as well.

A lot of Japanese, especially the people who write the history books, don't seem to think that Japan did anything wrong during the thirties and fourties...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to usersatch)

Post #: 26

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 9:24:03 PM

Yamato hugger

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

What does concern me though and where i think apologies are due...is with Japan's treatment of POW's and her record in China and Asia, China in particular has the greatest grievience with Japan. I'm also concerned with current Japanese revisionism that seems bent on not accepting her role in the war and denying that atrocities were done by her military forces (that didn't go down very well in Nanking recently)

Over 1100 Japs were executed for "war crimes" after the war. Not counting those that died in combat and/or killed themselves. It wasnt Japaneese policy to treat the PoWs badly it was local commanders.

I saw a show on history channel a few weeks back where they took some of the survivors from Wake back to the island. They showed where they were, where they fought. Dispelled some myths about the battle and made me aware of a lot of things that I didnt know before.

One of those was that after the island fell, the Jap commander was going to execute every last one of them, was over-ruled by higher command and they (minus the civilians) were sent to China. They were treated very well there. One of the men they had on the show had escaped a few months before the war was over. He and another man jumped from a train as they were being moved. The other man broke his leg and remained behind. The Japs recaptured the man with the broken leg and did nothing to him. No beatings, no beheading, nothing whatsoever.

Now the civilians that were left behind on the other hand were kept on Wake, forced to make bunkers and emplacements for the Japs and near the end of the war, they were all shot. Several of the senior Jap officers were executed for this.

Apologies 60 years after the fact mean little more than those that are given immeditately after. Words are words. They dont make up for the loss.

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 27

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 9:34:42 PM

FDRLincoln

Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline

I do some work with a Japanese company, and both of the Japanese guys I work with are aware of the war atrocities committed in China, as well as the "sneak attack" nature of the Pearl Harbor assault. They arent' very proud of what their country did, granted both of them were merely children at the time and weren't responsible in any way. Both of them are proud about how hard Japanese soldiers, sailors, and airmen fought in the war, but they both feel that the war itself was a mistake, and that the Japanese military leadership betrayed the best ideals and principles of Japanese culture with the treatment of POWs and the Chinese population.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)

Post #: 28

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 9:36:47 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

A lot of Japanese, especially the people who write the history books, don't seem to think that Japan did anything wrong during the thirties and fourties...

To be sure the situation in the Pacific was alot more grey than in Germany in terms of Japan's position, her relationship with the United States etc etc. Both sides were racist against each other and its not well known but the Japanese did try to compromise with the Roosevelt administration in regards to rsolving their crisis but the US position by policy was inflexible....complete withdrawl or no end to embargo. Roosevelt knew this would be politically unacceptible to Japan and it gave the Hawks justificaiton to move to war as the only option. (but i do still think Roosevelt was right...he knew war had to come sooner or later between the Democracies and the dictatorships of the world)

The above should most definately not be misinterpreted as statement on my part that Japan's aggression in Asia was justified....it wasn't, however one does have to realize that Japan was a classic example of a "have not" nation and in that she can be at least partially excused for wanting to follow the West's footsteps in regards using Imperialism as a means by which Japan could make herself self-sufficient. Its easy for a "have" nation like the US to just summarily judge others without realizing that we are doing so in part because we already have what we need.

Where things REALLY get confusing was some readings i have done which try to explain Japan's violent behavior in China, that Japan truely believed that for Asia to be "for the Asians" she had to be the "big brother" that would, "if necessary" correct China in order to make them get in step and realize the 'threat' and act accordingly. (talk about the Rod of correction!) In the murky depths of culture and psychology i can sort of see where they (the authors) were going with it. (I dont profess to fully understand it) nevertheless there's no question in my mind that it was no excuse for the sheer level of brutality that was unleashed through a combination of the above, the need to expand and the effect of the militarization of the Japanese society that stressed full obedience and even a 'death cult' that unleashed the true dark inner nature in human beings.

In the end, Japan was the aggressor, like Nazi Germany and Italy....she paid the price for being an aggressor and does need to acknowledge it...not so that people here in the US and other countries can feel superior, but so that history doesn't get repeated. The first step in history repeating itself is to either forget or revision the past. Thus my concern about the curious Japanese "version" of WWII.

To stress the last paragraph, acknowleding the mistakes the Allies made after WWI in terms of Germany's unfair and harsh treatment postwar which directly led to people like Hitler taking power in a nation hit hard by economic bad times exaserbated by ruinous reperations and seething from humliation in the end does not excuse what the Nazi's did. The same is true of the Japanese.

Thank god that we learned the lessons right at the end of WWII....and worked to actively restore and rebuild Germany and Japan and not simply pillage and exploit sowing the seeds for yet another conflict.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 8/5/2005 9:40:14 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 29

RE: BBC - Hiroshima - 8/5/2005 9:37:13 PM

FDRLincoln

Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline

Following up on that, one of them (the older one, in his early 70s) thinks that the atomic bombs, both of them, were probably necessary to end the war and does not harbor ill-feelings towards the US about it. The younger one (early 60s) says he "understands" Hiroshima, but that he thinks the Nagasaki bomb was unnecessary. He thinks the government should have been given at least a few more days to figure out what had happened and the implications.

(in reply to FDRLincoln)

Post #: 30