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Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/27/2005 6:48:38 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		I must question the wisdom of allowing certain nations the Colonial Warfare upgrade, particularly Sweden and Austria, and to a lesser extent Russia and Prussia.

The former do not have any colonies, and all four countries do not have a history of colonial expansion or holdings.

No big deal, but it's just a niggling annoyance to see a landlocked Austria and nearly landlocked Prussia (two countries with a spectacular lack of any maritme traditions) gobbling up colonies over time.
Post #: 1
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/27/2005 9:31:11 PM   
Naomi

 

Posts: 654
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Osaka
Status: offline 		Prussia had a good port in the form of Danzig, or the one in its vicinity, whereas Austria could just benefit from naval trade via Venice and its italian ports. The mere problem for them is the relative dearth of naval strength (to help establish colonies), that historical forces (like constant landwarfare that had kept them busy enough) may have kept them from building up. However, once given colonies (as is possible in the game mechanics), who knows they couldn't thrive just as much as the maritime powers in their envious eyes (at least in trade terms)? Look no further than Venetian merchants.

Anyway, is it better for us to know how many colonies a nation possesses, at the moment of writing treaties about their transfer? Will (or should) colonies increase over time?

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 2
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/27/2005 9:57:51 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		You can check colony status on the nation status screen (from the diplo status screen) before making the treaty. That's the same place you check their money before soaking them for all their worth

(in reply to Naomi)
Post #: 3
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 2:37:38 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		The success of Colonial Warfare depends on how many colonies you have - so I don't think there is anything wrong with the upgrade. Its a bit annoying when an AI player does it to you, but seems a reasonable thing.

I must admit to using a common exploit - whatever country I play I get as many colonies as I can - I take 'em in surrenders, I trade for em, I've even been known to take the Colonial Warfare upgrades! That has made for some wierd games - for example, Prussia with ALL the colonies! I value colonies much more than the AI does.

IMHO, colonies should be worth a little more cash, a bit of NML, and a bit of glory - every month (and then the AI should value them more in treaties). Do others agree that this is a balance issue and should be addressed?

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to carnifex)
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RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 3:19:40 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Shouldn't a few of the minor nations have colonies? (Holland, Portagul, )
They should be harder to steal (make them worth more NML and glory and AI will protect them better)
I always ask for colony before on map province. (Owership of a lot of colonies are reason enough for me to go to war with a nation)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Ralegh)
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RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 5:21:11 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

Shouldn't a few of the minor nations have colonies? (Holland, Portagul, )


It was abstracted out, but the game does actually cater for them having some - it just doesn't cater for taking them away from them. I do not know whether, if a scenario file (which we can mod) gave such colonies, the minor would get the benefit if they were free or a protectorate, but not if they were conquered, which would give incentive to free them... I kinda like that. It might be the way things are, but its a bit hard to test for.

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HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 6
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 6:53:52 PM   
Uncle_Joe


Posts: 1985
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

IMHO, colonies should be worth a little more cash, a bit of NML, and a bit of glory - every month (and then the AI should value them more in treaties). Do others agree that this is a balance issue and should be addressed?


Absolutely.

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RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 7:01:30 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		I think making colonies cost much more in the victory conditions screen and disallowing certain nations from getting both colonial warfare upgrades would do it.

(in reply to Uncle_Joe)
Post #: 8
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 7:14:07 PM   
Uncle_Joe


Posts: 1985
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline 		I dont see the point of disallowing certain nations from getting colony upgrades. If Turkey is allowed to ply the Baltic with her Fleets and Russia can attack Tunisia and conduct Amphib Ops against Spain, then I dont see restricting anything to do with colonies.

If a decision is made to impart 'historical' restriction on what various nations can and cant do, then sure, restrict colonies but until then, if its going to be open-ended, it should be open-ended IMO.


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RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 7:59:05 PM   
ian77

 

Posts: 627
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Russia's settlement and expansion eastwards was in effect colonisation... and she would have happily have accepted "colonies" from Britain, France, or Portugual in India, IMHO.

Under Bismark, Prussia became the German Empire and had overseas "colonies"... so what if we let her grab some colonies 75 years before she did in reality. Who knows, if she had beaten France in 1790's she might have asked for territories in Canada or India as her reward for restoring Louis............



< Message edited by ian77 -- 7/28/2005 8:01:38 PM >

(in reply to Uncle_Joe)
Post #: 10
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 10:20:08 PM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I like the idea of all countries being able to acquire colonies through conquest as we are making a new history.

But perhaps they should not be allowed to use the Colonial warfare upgrade unless they have X number of ships? Perhaps 100? This would reflect them becoming more of a maritime power.

(in reply to ian77)
Post #: 11
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/28/2005 10:43:40 PM   
marirosa

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		It was more common to trade back and forth colonies as peace agreements than direct conquest of the colonies (i means before XIX century) so it must be hard to steal one colony.

I don't know how is the check to see if you steal/lose a colony each turn but the modifiers i think should be:

- Amount of colonies
- Amount of ships
- Existence or not of Colonial Warfare I & II
- Existence or not of Colonial Regiments I & II

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 12
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 7/31/2005 5:19:48 AM   
Dayvit781

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: Bay Area, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralegh

IMHO, colonies should be worth a little more cash, a bit of NML, and a bit of glory - every month (and then the AI should value them more in treaties). Do others agree that this is a balance issue and should be addressed?



I vote for this. I think the problems people are having with colonies could be taken care of with this (so that they can't be traded for for simple free passage or pledge of defense)

Also, I would add that your winning of colonies during war should be modified by the amount of colonies that the country has... because basically, it's colonies fighting colonies (see the French-Indian War). And perhaps, a naval rating determined by number of ships (See the occupation of Netherlands East Indies in this time frame).

When it comes down to it though, people... colonies are only worth about 1 gold per turn and maybe some spices (?)... So even if it's annoying... it doesn't matter at all to the game! Now if we add glory... that would make it worth it.

(in reply to Ralegh)
Post #: 13
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 8/9/2005 7:08:42 PM   
frodon


Posts: 10
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

I must question the wisdom of allowing certain nations the Colonial Warfare upgrade, particularly Sweden and Austria, and to a lesser extent Russia and Prussia.

The former do not have any colonies, and all four countries do not have a history of colonial expansion or holdings.


Well, Sweden did have a colony in the Carribbean. The Island of St Barthelemy was a Swedish colony between 1785 and 1878.

And Guadeloupe was ceded to Sweden in 1813. It was returned to France after the peace in 1814.

http://www.answers.com/topic/guadeloupe-fund



(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 14
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 8/10/2005 5:43:16 AM   
Dayvit781

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: Bay Area, California
Status: offline 		=) Yes, and wasn't it Sweden who originally founded Delaware?

(in reply to frodon)
Post #: 15
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 8/10/2005 3:22:52 PM   
frodon


Posts: 10
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dayvit781

=) Yes, and wasn't it Sweden who originally founded Delaware?


Yep, Sweden did establish a shortlived colony in Delaware (with some settlements in New Jersey) in 1638. It was conquered by the Dutch in 1655.

Also there was a swedish colony Ghana during the 1600's

And there was also a Swedish East India Company which lasted long into the Napoleonic Wars. But AFAIK this was only a trading company which didn't establish any colonies. However, the Danish East India company did have a colony in India (Tranquebar) until 1845.

< Message edited by frodon -- 8/10/2005 3:26:23 PM >

(in reply to Dayvit781)
Post #: 16
RE: Colonial Warfare Upgrade - 8/10/2005 3:34:52 PM   
Hurz_slith

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		And don´t forget Saint-Berthélemy, an island in the west indies. Sweden bought it from France in the late 18th century and kept it for 100 years.
Okay, it is a little bit weird to compare this little rock with the spanish colonial empire, but still it was a little colony.


P.S.: sorry, didn´t see the message above...

< Message edited by Hurz -- 8/10/2005 3:44:53 PM >

(in reply to frodon)
Post #: 17
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