how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing enemy base

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing enemy base

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how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing enemy ... - 8/12/2005 7:28:09 PM

kkoovvoo

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline

I already captured a base but all oil and resources centers are damaged.

I thought oil and resources centers are damaged only by:
1/ air (city) atrtacks
2/ ground combat

There was some ground combat but it took me only 5-6 days to take the base (2 shock attacks).

I also massively bombarded the base from air (90% ground attacks/10% port attacks) and there were also naval bombardments (but I tested naval bomb. in tutorial and it caused no damage to il and resources centers)

Now all the centers are damaged and the base produce nothing...

Any advices how to prevent this?

thanks guys

Post #: 1

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/12/2005 7:55:01 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

I'm not sure there IS a way to prevent damage. If the base has an engineer unit in it they will damage the facility before they leave .

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Post #: 2

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/12/2005 7:55:45 PM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kkoovvoo

I already captured a base but all oil and resources centers are damaged.

I thought oil and resources centers are damaged only by:
1/ air (city) atrtacks
2/ ground combat

There was some ground combat but it took me only 5-6 days to take the base (2 shock attacks).

I also massively bombarded the base from air (90% ground attacks/10% port attacks) and there were also naval bombardments (but I tested naval bomb. in tutorial and it caused no damage to il and resources centers)

Now all the centers are damaged and the base produce nothing...

Any advices how to prevent this?

thanks guys

Disrupt engineers at the base before you attack. Letting up even a bit before the base is actually taken allows the engineers to rest and do damage. At least three turns before the attack that will take the base, you should be attacking both with airgroups and bombardments. Your air bombardments should take the form of Port and Airfield attacks, because your target is the engineers in the hex, not the combat troops. Ground attacks hit the combat units, the bombardments and port/airfield hit the support units. You want the support units as disrupted and fatigued as you can get them. It also helps to have overwhelming force, but the key thing is to disrupt the engineers.

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Post #: 3

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/12/2005 8:04:03 PM

Sharkosaurus rex

Posts: 467
Joined: 10/19/2004
From: under the waves
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The manual says the defender needs to have engineers in the hex to damage some of the oil and resource facilities, but the silly thing is- even unoccupied hexes get their oil pumps sabotaged and there's nothin' you can do!

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RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/12/2005 8:07:47 PM

kkoovvoo

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline

The base was also attacked by several naval bombardments before it was captured - the last bombardment was on the same day the base fell, causing 1.600 casualties (of 8.000-11.000).

The naval bombardment is killing support troops and dice rolls were on my side very much.

I really couldnt believe my eyes. First I thought that I was mistaken and undamaged centers are in parenthesis

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RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/12/2005 10:10:57 PM

doktorblood

Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
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I'm not sure that there is anything that you can do to reduce such damage. It appears to be a random result to me.

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Post #: 6

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/13/2005 5:05:14 PM

Hoplosternum

Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline

Yes I think it may be random. I held Palembang until May/June in one PBEM I have going. I did not reinforce it and my opponent bombarded it numerous times by air and sea. When he took it with overwhelming force (first ground attack i believe) he said it was fairly smashed up.

I hope not many PBEM games are spoilt by unlucky rolls on the three or so key oil places. It's one thing for the IJ player to let the allies strategic bomb these places, but quite another to have him stuffed by losing a large amount of oil capacity to a roll he seems to have little control over.

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Post #: 7

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/13/2005 5:09:37 PM

Drex

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline

Not all demolition operations are successful. Die rolls allow damage to go either way. I have captured bases intact many times even with engineers present.

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Post #: 8

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/16/2005 4:23:41 PM

castor troy

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Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
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In one of my ongoing PBEM my opponent let my take control of two cities in China without a fight and after my deliberate attack the resources, oil, manpower and HI were damaged. Not completly destroyed but all damaged. So what�s wrong here? It appears that there�s always a dice roll no matter if there are troops at the base or not.

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Post #: 9

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/16/2005 4:45:45 PM

Sharkosaurus rex

Posts: 467
Joined: 10/19/2004
From: under the waves
Status: offline

Manpower centres are divided by 10. So a 30 factor MP site will be worth only 3 for you.
HI is halved each time it is captured.
Oil and resources the Japs are getting ripped off. Everytime I capture Miri (on Boreno) bang the oil gets blasted. And many other unoccupied oil/resource sites too. This must be randon though.

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RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/16/2005 5:18:37 PM

castor troy

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From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharkosaurus rex

Manpower centres are divided by 10. So a 30 factor MP site will be worth only 3 for you.
HI is halved each time it is captured.
Oil and resources the Japs are getting ripped off. Everytime I capture Miri (on Boreno) bang the oil gets blasted. And many other unoccupied oil/resource sites too. This must be randon though.

Yes correct. But HI and MP is not just divided, I also get damaged parts AFTER it was already divided even if a base is taken without a fight.

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Post #: 11

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/16/2005 8:07:10 PM

AmiralLaurent

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
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It's not especially random. If the attacking side has more ENG than the defending side, the ressources and oil will probably be intact (or no more than 10% damaged). I have repeated this several times on Kendari, Balikpapan, Palembang, Johore Bharu and other places. Having 1 or several ENG Rgts in the attacking force really helps. None of this big centers was damaged more than 10% when I took them. I managed to take Palembang almost undamaged in all my games due (IMHO) to the fact that I use 2 divisions and 2-3 Eng Rgt, all with prep more than 50, to take it.

On the other side everytime I took a base with naval units (SNLF and so on) or paras, that have no engineer squads, the base will be wrecked, even after weeks of pounding.

By the way an empty base will be destroyed at 10 to 30% if you take if without engineers on your side. If you have engineers it will probably be intact.

According to other players on thios forum, damaged to oil/ressources will be reduced if the final attack is deliberate rather than shock. I think also it is a good thing that the attacking troops have a good prep for the target.

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Post #: 12

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/17/2005 9:05:36 AM

Sharkosaurus rex

Posts: 467
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From: under the waves
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Amiral I think you are right. All the bases I have captured with zero damage are the sites in Malaya and Philippines- were the Allies have withdrawn and I capture with an advancing division using deliberate attack. This bases have 100% production- though most are resources. But other undefended hexes that have been captured by smaller Jap units (obviously with less or no engineers) have resulted in major demoltions of oil and resources. Contested have have received some damage too but usually not as much. Well any remaining production sites will only have an overwhelming presence of engineers from now on.

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RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/27/2005 9:35:36 PM

worr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
It also helps to have overwhelming force, but the key thing is to disrupt the engineers.

I have found an overwhelming force counter productive to limiting damage. A smaller force that takes more turns to capture a base seems to wear down the Engineers in the port more so than a one time overwhelming attack does.

I agree with others that I've captured bases wholesale with ENG units and no damage. But I do not believe it is random. I believe there is another game variable that goes into the equation. PM me if you want to learn more.

Worr, out

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Post #: 14

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/29/2005 1:21:24 AM

Oleg Mastruko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
It's not especially random. If the attacking side has more ENG than the defending side, the ressources and oil will probably be intact (or no more than 10% damaged).

No it's VERY random.

I always bring 1-2 ENG Rgts (+ organic engineers in INF divisions) as IJA when attacking DEI centres and as of lately capture them 70-100% damaged. Defenders have like 1-2 Dutch base units at most so no way they could have even the 20% of my number of engineers, yet, if you're unlucky enough as I am lately, this is what happens.

I think it is very random.

O.

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RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/29/2005 1:46:31 AM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
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I even had an empty base get very damaged upon capture, so I agree with random ... however the bases I've captured intact with zero damage have either been empty or .. I bombed the heck out of the airbase and thus disrupted all the engineers. So I'd say random with an ability to influence by killing or disrupting all the defending engineers.

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Post #: 16

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/31/2005 2:51:30 PM

Charles2222

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Joined: 3/12/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

I even had an empty base get very damaged upon capture, so I agree with random ... however the bases I've captured intact with zero damage have either been empty or .. I bombed the heck out of the airbase and thus disrupted all the engineers. So I'd say random with an ability to influence by killing or disrupting all the defending engineers.

Have you ever considered the weather upon capture? Perhaps a rainy day brings the engineer's fires being put out naturally.

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Post #: 17

RE: how to avoid oil/resources damage when capturing en... - 8/31/2005 3:51:24 PM

AmiralLaurent

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
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If you have a lot of engineers and the enemy has few undirsupted engineers in the hex, the base is almost intact. I always do that in important locations (Palembang, Kuala Lumpur and Balikpapan) and the worst I have seen is 20% damage. Especially in Palembang I usually besiege it for 15 days pounding the enemy with ships, AC and artillery and has never seen more than 5% damage here.

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Post #: 18