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How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 9:58:59 AM   
westerar30

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		I have played nearly every nation and I always run out of money near the middle of my game. Every time I notice that my largest expediture is waste. It is more than the cost of upkeep for my military. Is there any way to lower the amount of waste so I do not have to lower the level of my armeis military readiness to keep my economy afloat

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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 10:37:08 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		In COG 1.1 the only way to lower waste is to produce less. The easiest way to produce less is to have a smaller empire - however the number of provinces doesn't actually affect things. You always get a little more if you produce more, so the system isn't actually silly.

What I suggest you do is pump up your taxes - there is a reason countries at the time taxed 25-30% - and take other measures to deal with the resulting national morale hit. Also consider taking the garrisons off supply and put em out to forage (you have to remove them from the city to do this) - that saves quite a lot.

In the beta of the next patch (which we are already testing), waste is being significnatly tweaked - it is affected by the number of provinces you own, and provinces with courts at level 5 or higher don't count! The balance isn't quite right yet, so we'll see what we (the beta testers) can talk Eric (the developer) into. I sure get more cash and more textiles though!

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Steve/Ralegh

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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 2:38:47 PM   
dapamdg

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		YES! This is a great idea. A real reason to build up courts in more than one area, and a great way to reduce the impact of waste. Although perhaps it might be better to simply reduce waste rather than totally eliminate it in areas with 5+ courts. I can easily get my British to have every province at 5+ courts during the 1792/1796 scenarios. Britian with no waste at all would be a monster.

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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 3:51:05 PM   
Ron

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/6/2002
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quote:

In the beta of the next patch (which we are already testing), waste is being significnatly tweaked - it is affected by the number of provinces you own, and provinces with courts at level 5 or higher don't count! The balance isn't quite right yet, so we'll see what we (the beta testers) can talk Eric (the developer) into. I sure get more cash and more textiles though!



Ack, I'm not privy to the testing of this but offhand that seems a tad arbitrary and dare I say 'gamey'. I have worked in government and large companies in 'modern' times and can say without question that waste and inefficiency are always present, it is never eliminated at all and we are talking about a time when waste and inefficiency were rampant. I like the idea of waste being reduced by the nation's Court levels but having Provinces with level 5 Courts simply not count towards waste is wrong. Yes reduce waste with higher Court levels but have it on a sliding scale so even with the highest level it is still there to a significant degree. Just my opinion.



Ron


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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 4:44:38 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		Effects of level 5 Courts:



< Message edited by carnifex -- 8/19/2005 4:46:01 PM >

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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 4:50:33 PM   
Latour_Maubourg


Posts: 90
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

Effects of level 5 Courts:








L-M


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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 6:00:49 PM   
ian77

 

Posts: 627
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Overall I really like the concept and implementation of waste. It helps to stop COG from being just any other empire building game where once the player hits critical mass it is only a question of when not if they will win.

My biggest problems with waste are money and food. Playing the longer campaigns it becomes impossible to place a single depot without causing starvation amongst civilians and the inability to pay all your unit support costs.

Courts - every level of courts in each province should generate one additional gold, after waste has been applied.
Farms - every level of farms in each province should generate one additional food, after waste has been applied.

Every province with level 6 Courts, level 6 Roads, and level 6 Culture increases the waste base level by one. The province must have all 3 developments at level 6 to qualify for the bonus. Now instead of waste kicking in at 10 textiles we will get 11 before waste begins. Not a huge improvement, but every little helps. To my mind this represents a province with good infrastructure and government presence/supervision.

I believe these suggestions will encourage players to build more courts and roads, and to develop farms in all provinces not just those which they target as food producers, but without completely unbalancing the present waste restrictions. Early game we may see more excess cash and food, but the existing stock piling limits will continue to stop this being a major problem IMHO, and I think they may be easier to implement with regard to programming(?)...

I also think that it will now be more practical for a nation to plunder its own developed provinces to reduce their economic value to the conquering power… a good practical reason for scorched earth tactics.

Ian

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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 6:05:13 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
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From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline
quote:

Playing the longer campaigns it becomes impossible to place a single depot without causing starvation amongst civilians and the inability to pay all your unit support costs.


It would be a lot easier if the forage/supply switch for units worked. Right now if there is a supply depot in range a unit will draw supply from it regardless that a forage order has been issued for that unit. So you either have to march forage-bound armies away from the action or suffer the full cost.

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Post #: 8
RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 6:12:39 PM   
ian77

 

Posts: 627
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		You are spot on Carnifex, that is definitely something I would like to see changed. The order to forage should be "automatic" and the use of supply should need to be "approved" by HQ (the player) before supplies can be drawn by a unit.

Ian

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Post #: 9
RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 8:35:28 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hey Guys
lets not go off halfcocked here

one, I am not sure Reliegh has given all the numbers that are being taken into effect on makeing and lowering waste, just part of it

we are not sure all that Eric has in mind, this sounds like part of the idea

from what I understand, there is a base number for low waste, and a base number for High waste

now building Courts and getting them to this or that level, will take that province out of the counting, for that base number (not out of making waste)

so...

just throwing numbers out, say low base is 5 and high base is 10, if you have 22 Provinces and 5 of them have a level 5 court, you have 17 provinces when it figures out the waste, and guess what, you are still in the High Waste area (not as bad as if you had 22, but you are still going to be hit)



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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/19/2005 11:11:10 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		let me try one more time to see if I can get a answer on what I can talk about, if so, I will try and post some shots of waste

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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/20/2005 3:32:16 AM   
westerar30

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the input everyone. It has really helped me. I always overlooked increasing my court level. Once again thanks for all the feedback.

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Anthony R. Westerfield

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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/20/2005 3:52:55 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Don't rush to build them yet !, we still testing this part of the next patch

Courts will be worth having in the current verison, but will not help to lower Waste

HARD_Sarge


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RE: How to lower waste; - 8/20/2005 8:31:46 AM   
westerar30

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Don't rush to build them yet !, we still testing this part of the next patch

Courts will be worth having in the current verison, but will not help to lower Waste

HARD_Sarge



okay

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Post #: 14
RE: How to lower waste; - 8/20/2005 9:08:26 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, H_S is right (of course he is - he is testing it too!).

I didn't mean to imply that provinces with a courts of 5 would have no waste. The version we are testing (which isn't quite right yet IMHO) have provinces with courts 5 causing less waste because they don't count towards the number of provinces - the number of provinces (not counting ones with courts 5) increases or reduces the nations overall waste figure.

[Important point: in COG 1.1, waste is calculated on the gross national production, not province by province. I'd love to see this changed in a sequel, since I think it would be more logical to calculate it by province, but that is too big to get done in a patch.]

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Steve/Ralegh

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