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Compelling game (Linux thought)

 
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Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 4:58:03 AM   
Captain Cruft


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Status: offline 		I was wondering. How compelling would a hypothetical Linux wargame have to be for people to buy it? Given that 99% of wargamers are Windows-only users (at a guess).

Any opinions? I should point out that there are various ways such a game could be packaged so that it could be played without installing Linux and/or interfering with existing Windows setups.

It would also be interesting to know the answer to the same question if the hypothetical game were free, as in no cost.

Thanks
Post #: 1
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 5:04:41 AM   
rhondabrwn


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From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		I'd have to ask you what compelling reason there is for a Linux version of a wargame (other than being able to stick it to Microsoft)?

I can't see a wargame being so compelling that I would go out and install Linux in order to play it. Having played around a bit with the Knoppix CD based Linux, I'm not real enthusiastic about using it to play a wargame.

If all I had was Linux and I refused to embrace Windows, then any wargame would be welcome, but I doubt that is the case for many of us here!

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RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 7:18:56 AM   
Captain Cruft


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From: England
Status: offline 		Thanks for your thoughts Rhonda.

There is no compelling reason for a Linux wargame. Can a wargame compell Linux though? ;)

I suppose I am trying to determine whether the generally accepted theory that it is applications which determine what operating system people use is true in this particular niche area. So far, based on a highly scientific sample of one, the answer would appear to be no :)

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RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 7:21:44 AM   
Captain Cruft


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Status: offline 		Just to clarify, I am supposing that the hypothetical game would cover some topic or conflict that was not available anywhere else in computerised form.


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Post #: 4
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 8:35:33 AM   
rhondabrwn


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From: Snowflake, Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Thanks for your thoughts Rhonda.

There is no compelling reason for a Linux wargame. Can a wargame compell Linux though? ;)

I suppose I am trying to determine whether the generally accepted theory that it is applications which determine what operating system people use is true in this particular niche area. So far, based on a highly scientific sample of one, the answer would appear to be no :)


Your viewpoint has been valid in the past. Witness how Visicalc drove sales of the Apple II computer into business and home markets and launched the computer revolution. Ever since then, people have searched for "the Killer App" that would drive the same kind of systemic conversion. The term has kinda gone out of usage as the proliferation of computer applications has pretty much done away with the possibility of anyone coming up with such an original (and uncopyable) product.

The Mac did present some unique opportunities when it competed with an graphically challenged PC, but that differential has evaporated over the years. One can split hairs arguing over whether a Mac is better at movie editing and so forth, but the differences really aren't enough for the average person to see any real difference. (Note: I used to be a Mac fanatic at one time, but now a computer is a computer to me).

Linux, of course, is just an open source version of UNIX so there is really nothing there to drive a unique application (or wargame) that would have any particular advantage over a Windows machine. Yes, it's more secure from virus attacks, but mostly because it's not a big target right now.

So... could there be a "killer" wargame that would be so good and so unique to Linux that it would drive people to convert? I really can't imagine it happening.

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RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 3:03:14 PM   
Captain Cruft


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn
So... could there be a "killer" wargame that would be so good and so unique to Linux that it would drive people to convert? I really can't imagine it happening.


I wasn't thinking "killer app" and full conversion, just something good and/or unique enough that people would be prepared to give it a go and run dual operating systems using whatever configuration.

BTW the idea I have in mind, which is admittedly just in my head at the moment, would be almost impossible to implement on Windows but relatively easy on UNIX. It is a decidedly unconventional concept though.

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Post #: 6
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 4:34:01 PM   
Lucifuge

 

Posts: 153
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Staten Island, NY
Status: offline 		A minority (war gamers) of a minority (linux users) = not worth the effort imo.

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Post #: 7
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 7:06:48 PM   
Captain Cruft


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From: England
Status: offline 		With respect, that is not the point. Read my posts :)

BTW that viewpoint was exactly what caused IBM to drop the ball and pass "leadership" of the computer industry to Microsoft back in the 80s. To paraphrase: "No-one's using these PC things yet so we can't be bothered to make our own O/S for them. I know, let's buy this CPM type thing from that small company in Seattle and use that instead".

In contrast, Microsoft take Linux and open source (as competition) extremely seriously. To the point of rampant paranoia even IMHO.



< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 8/29/2005 7:22:02 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 7:23:32 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		If they're taking it seriously, they can't be paranoid about it... Linux will take manymanymanymanymanymany years to become a serious threat to Windows.

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Post #: 9
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 7:33:03 PM   
Captain Cruft


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Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		I was talking about business "paranoia" in the Andy Grove sense ("only the paranoid survive"). MS are doing absolutely everything they can to stop the Linux juggernaut. Some of which is frankly risible and smacks to me of panic.

Juggernaut? Yes, but it is moving slowly and is not very visible to most people yet. I hope to see the tipping point in my lifetime though. At age 40 I leave it open as to whether that is a good bet or not ...

Anyway, that's getting off the point. Please return to the original discussion :)

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Post #: 10
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 10:57:28 PM   
JeF


Posts: 1170
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline 		As you ask here are my 2 cents worth of words on the subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
I was wondering. How compelling would a hypothetical Linux wargame have to be for people to buy it? Given that 99% of wargamers are Windows-only users (at a guess).


Considering the bankrupcy of Loki Games who used to port blockbuster games to Linux (most of them still cited on the Web site of the cross-platform lib they helped to develop : have a look at LibSDL strategy games, I'd say : it must be _very good_ to have people interrested enough to break even.

You'd see that Dominions (published by Shrapnel) is cited among those games, but it is not Linux only.

Seriously, in the Linux world most people expect everything is free, as in beer.

quote:


Any opinions? I should point out that there are various ways such a game could be packaged so that it could be played without installing Linux and/or interfering with existing Windows setups.


You mean like a CD you insert in a game console ? Nobody will see the difference except they would ask : why rebooting my PC ? Couldn't windows handle the thing just fine ? And then they ask about Alt-Tabbing to Excel or IE.
You can of course offer a virtual Linux machine (like Xen). Technically feasible but is it worth the hassle. And will certainly start slower than any Direct X game.

quote:


It would also be interesting to know the answer to the same question if the hypothetical game were free, as in no cost.


I don't know of any game that is free and has the quality and the look and feel of a commercial product. Nobody will invest such an amount of time and potentially money, for nothing.

But you might check some of the excellent games on the link above, most of them are free, as in free beer and as in free speech. There used to be a thread about the subject in this very forum, but I'm too lazy..hum no.. busy to find out.

In the current state of the art, Linux only games are not viable.

JeF.

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Post #: 11
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 8/29/2005 11:55:56 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Yes I know about Loki. A shame but they were trying to run (nay fly) before they could walk.

Xen is great but an absolute non-starter for the consumer market in any context.

I think you're right about Linux games being "not viable" if you mean as a commercial enterprise. The same phrase could almost be applied to the entire wargaming industry though.

The question is: if a unique game were offered would people be prepared to go through the "hassle" to run it. Said hassle being minimised as far as possible. I think the answer is yes, some would, but how many? 5? 10? 100? Leaving aside the money angle, you need a certain size of community to make a thing worthwhile.

quote:


Seriously, in the Linux world most people expect everything is free, as in beer.


This is increasingly becoming untrue. In the commercial IT world anyway. The thing is gradually being "taken over" by the industry - there are various ways to do this without breaking open source licensing. Personally, I'm not an open source "zealot" so I think this is a good thing. Hopefully the IT industry will eventually get back to being competitive without any vast monopoly fecking everything up.

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Post #: 12
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 12/7/2010 9:44:33 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Haven't "APPS" driven the whole smart phone and now Tablet craze..


get the apps for Linux and make it easy to use and you're on a winner.


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Post #: 13
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 12/7/2010 11:11:12 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Problem of Linux is not Microsoft, it's the lack of 3rd-party support. Every OS is just as good as there are dedicated applications available and for Linux one can merely get substitute programs in most cases. I guess it doesn't matter if somebody uses his pc just for browsing the web or writing letters, but myself I need the Adobe Creative Suite for working and since this one is solely available for Windows/Mac OS, Linux is no option. I'm not a game developer, but could imagine they would have to refrain from already existent libraries and DirectX.

Would I play an extraordinary wargame if it comes on a Linux live cd and doesn't require me to create an extra partition? Probably yes, but I would rather looking for a Windows version before bothering with another OS.

< Message edited by Lützow -- 12/7/2010 11:13:07 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 12/7/2010 12:27:28 PM   
berto


Posts: 20708
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From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Status: offline 		I'd find this compelling:

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto
My dream is an EU-like simulation going beyond even the depth, detail, and "realism" of WITP:AE and developed and supported by a community of technically competent grognards who truly know and understand history...


I like your vision. Count me in as one of the Grogs to help develop it! Yes We Can! Yes We Can!

If We Can, it would likely be an international, Linux-like Open Source project spanning decades of ongoing, continuous development and refinement.

...

Given another 70 years, and the leveraging power of computers and the Internet (and technologies still undreamed of), who knows? Maybe just maybe such an Open Source mega history simulation might happen. But sadly, "not in my lifetime anyway."



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RE: Compelling game (Linux thought) - 12/7/2010 6:30:13 PM   
TonyE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
<snip> would be almost impossible to implement on Windows but relatively easy on UNIX. It is a decidedly unconventional concept though.


I'm mainly curious about that statement of yours since I haven't seen much lately that one OS can do that another one can't (given some greater or lesser amount of effort) in terms of networking/wargaming/...



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