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Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/3/2005 7:38:38 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Guys

Mark and I were considing taking both Forgotten Heroes and ANZAC Attack and reprinting in into one game called Lock n Load: The Nam. These games would have all of the maps, counters and a few other goodies. These components would be done in the same high standards as Band of Heroes. The maps will be mounted with the new style of graphics currently found on the new maps. We would add some extra value to the game in the way of scenarios and maybe even an extra map. How many of you would be interested in us publishing a game like this.

David

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RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/3/2005 8:20:06 PM   
bbonnevier

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/10/2005
Status: offline 		I'd buy it in a heart beat (even though I have all the LnL stuff to date!). I'd but it even faster if:

1) It had more stuff from First Indochina War

2) The scenarios did not require any "pretend" terrain (pretend the buildings are jungle, etc.). I don't mind paying more than ever for great games, but I HATE having to remember what the terrain is supposed to be on top of paying $50-100. So, I would ask that scenarios like Long Tan, Cateaka(sp?) Tea Plantation and Undeniable Courage be redesigned around existing maps, or that more appropriate maps are included.

3) It had some Riverine stuff

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 2
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/3/2005 9:19:56 PM   
Rael

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		Yes most definetly even though I own both originals. I would love to see
Forgotten Heros redone with the Niko counter art. Also BOH style maps would be A
huge improvement as I am not very fond of the original maps especially
the city ones. Plus throw in some new troops likes ROK's and more special forces and it would be great.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 3
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/3/2005 9:22:37 PM   
Rael

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		Oh yeah I almost forgot when does it start shipping so I can plan to go to
Gen Con or move to France to get it fast

(in reply to Rael)
Post #: 4
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 12:08:39 AM   
AlvinS

 

Posts: 665
Joined: 12/2/2000
From: O'Fallon, Missouri
Status: offline 		I have both already, but count me in. I could use my original when I travel and keep the updated set at home.

_____________________________

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." ---Mark Twain

Naval Warfare Simulations

AlvinS

(in reply to Rael)
Post #: 5
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 1:42:21 AM   
Catgh_MatrixForum


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: Durango, CO
Status: offline 		I would pick it up. Where do we pre-order and when is it expected to ship? Just checking to see if you are going to make the mistake of predicting a release date.

Also when is the LnL forum being moved up to the new release section of the forums?

(in reply to AlvinS)
Post #: 6
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 4:13:23 AM   
Magua

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		For some reason, I am having trouble getting into Viet Nam wargaming. It has nothing to do with politics or anything like that. At least I don't think it does. I think it has more to do with context. WWII firefights fit nicely into the context of bigger overall battles and campaigns. Winning or losing can be imagined to mean something beyond the game. The nature of the fighting in Viet Nam discourages this. I'm sure most players probably have no problem with it.

So, I probably won't purchase this one, unless I am totally LnL starved, which very well might happen.

Now, LnL:Pacific? I'm all over that. LnL: War on Terror? I'm all over that too.

(in reply to Catgh_MatrixForum)
Post #: 7
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 5:02:54 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		Hi David,

"High quality" is the key and the ability to buy locally retail (have you arranged "Band of Heroes" retail with Jedko Games in Australia yet?).

I just bought Avalanche Press' Panzer Grenadier "Beyond Normandy" platoon-level game. The research that went into its scenario book is very praise-worthy but the quality of the actual game's components is very disappointing:

- Wafer thin die cut counters.
- Top-down horizontal view AFV art (facing is irrelevant - so why a top view?)
- Cardboard reference cards of noticably varying thickness - the turn record chart even uses poor quality recycled paper full of dirt and specks!
- Absolutely no dice provided.
- 2.5 huge gloss paper maps (not even hard card stock) which would tax the average dining table making gaming all but impossible without folding and guesstimating portions of maps required.
- Three-page Scenario descriptions that require a PhD to set-up.
- AND WORSE OF ALL: scenarios that require more components than supplied (10% of total scenarios affected in this way).

So imho, if you avoid all of these issues I'm in the market.

BTW: Jedko Games has just opened Australia's first shopping-strip retail wargaming store since the industry died back in the late 80's. Called "Milsims" it's located near me in Melbourne, Australia and by the traffic browsing its shelfs you'd have some easy customers. Shrapnel and HPS have a large PC presence there already. MMP, Critical Hit, Avalanche Press, GMT, L2, Rio Grande etc., stock 5 huge board gaming shelving displays. Matrix would look very good there with Lock n' Load. Jedko then services the rest of the country via a well-respected mail-order. Drop me a line if I can furnish you with any details.

Well done on a gutsy move into board gaming. I could hear the tension with the printer delays

Adam.

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 9/4/2005 5:03:59 AM >

(in reply to Magua)
Post #: 8
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 5:44:19 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi

I am talking with someone at MilSims... I have not heard from anyone at Jedko. If you know anyone there or have any contact infomation please let me know. If anyone else know of a one stores or dealers looking to carry our board or computer games please let me know and I will be more then happy to contact them.

David Heath
Matrix Games



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RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 9:18:09 AM   
Tlwnd

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/4/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds good to me. Ditto on the riverine, or at least some top-down cobras and huey gunships. Throw in an OV-10 and I'm sold for sure.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 10
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 10:38:48 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

I am talking with someone at MilSims... I have not heard from anyone at Jedko.


No worries David, they are one and the same - Jedko is the parent company, Milsims the retail arm and mail house.

Give them a poster and a display for their counter near the door and LnL will sell big. Try to position yourself sub $80AUD per title, the Aussie:US dollar is reasonably good here now.

Adam.

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 9/4/2005 10:39:53 AM >

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 11
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 12:45:40 PM   
aysi

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 4/5/2004
Status: offline 		Wow just checked the Milsims webpage,they know how to charge

Anyone here in Australia who want to get their games at a more lets say friendly price may want to try the guys at Warchest and games 4 gamers,great service at way better prices

Just picked up Prussia's glory from GMT for 66 bucks from them,Milsims wants close to 100

I hope to get lock and load from them when it gets in stock,Matrix might want to give them a call


(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 12
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 1:54:20 PM   
markhwalker


Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		On the Nam... first let's be clear. This isn't a done deal, and by that I mean we haven't priced it out yet, so this is somewhat tentative. I also think that David will do this as a P500. The list of components we have discussed is:

Eight maps --(7 FH and AA redone and 1 new --all mounted in the BoH style)

Three counter sheets --(FH art redone, AA counters, and 1/2 of a sheet of new counters --currently slated to include French forces from the First IndoChina War and the Koren Tiger Division from our tour in Vietnam)

24 Skill Cards --(original 16 from FH with new art, and 8 additional skill cards)

32 Scenarios (original 25 from FH and AA + 7 new scenarios using French and Koreans --all 32 in the new scenario format)

One player aid card (and this time I'll beat the back of the box into agreement --we can give two if you all feel strongly about it)

V2 Rules with French, Korean, NVA, US, VC, nationality characteristics.

Two manly die (or is that dice?).

This i the biggest game we have done, and --unfortunately-- would be priced accordingly. I'm not talking Streets of Stalingrad pricing, but it would be more than BoH. AND... it's not like all future modules would cost that much. Subsequent BoH-sized modules would have BoH pricing (barring unforseen printer price increases.)

And yes, of course we will sell it to the French, and GenCon attendees first.

Oh yeah, and it will start shipping November 23rd at 2 PM EST.

Best,

Mark

(in reply to aysi)
Post #: 13
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 2:57:37 PM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker

Eight maps --(7 FH and AA redone and 1 new --all mounted in the BoH style)

Three counter sheets --(FH art redone, AA counters, and 1/2 of a sheet of new counters --currently slated to include French forces from the First IndoChina War and the Koren Tiger Division from our tour in Vietnam) ...

This i the biggest game we have done, and --unfortunately-- would be priced accordingly. I'm not talking Streets of Stalingrad pricing, but it would be more than BoH. AND... it's not like all future modules would cost that much. Subsequent BoH-sized modules would have BoH pricing (barring unforseen printer price increases.)

Mark


Hi Mark,

8 mounted maps would make for some hefty freight charges too. You may be looking at a box the size of MMP's ASL module "For King and Country" - and much heavier - or something even sturdier capable of surviving shipment to shelf or home.

IIRC Avalanche Press' forthcoming revamp of Panzer Grenadier (East Front) will contain 8 maps too but card stock. 660 counters equates to roughly 8 counter sheets I estimate. They're slating a US rrp of $75 for that alone.

MMP's beyond Valor with 4 mounted boards is showing USD $85.

Given that I really couldn't see LnL Nam coming in sub USD $100. I think the hobby needs the game but can't see the logistics at this stage. I'm a big fan of mounted mapboards when done well - tight fitting and solid quality but 8 maps may be catering for the paper and plexiglass fan to make such a box saleable?

Adam.

(in reply to markhwalker)
Post #: 14
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 3:45:54 PM   
drunkninjauk

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/4/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		To be honest, i already have both the LnL Vietnam games & i would rather you got working on either a supplement for BoH or another world war 2 module. Maybe a Market Garden game or an Eastern front one? Just my 2 cents worth.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 15
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/4/2005 8:31:27 PM   
Dazooz2


Posts: 48
Joined: 10/26/2002
Status: offline 		While I would like to get my hands on ANZAC, I'm somewhat sour on the prospect of having to buy Forgotten Heros again to get it.

I suppose I would just prefer new titles.

(in reply to drunkninjauk)
Post #: 16
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/5/2005 1:56:31 PM   
Vulpe

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		I think I'd buy that!

However, to be sure, I'd have to get my pre-ordered copy of BOH.

Just to see if I Like the darn game at all :P

Dan

(in reply to Dazooz2)
Post #: 17
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/5/2005 3:15:44 PM   
WO1GKW

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/5/2005
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Its a good game (FH & AA). A second addition would be sure to sell. I don't think mounted boards are needed - that may keep the price down some. I'm interested in the "new rules", can the BoH rules be used with the old FH & AA? My BoH still hasn't made it here, but that is because it is a holiday weekend and UPS doesn't make runs here on weekends anyway. So I'll know on Tuesday...

(in reply to Vulpe)
Post #: 18
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/6/2005 6:55:33 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aysi

Wow just checked the Milsims webpage,they know how to charge


Hi Aysi. I respect what you say but price isn't always everything and Milsims display is larger. For over 30 years Milsims has been there under the Jedko banner establishing one of the most reliable gaming mail service operations I've seen. Side by side with a weekday and every other weekend retail outlet.

In the 70's they bought a licence from Avalon Hill to manufacture a truly high quality version of Russian Campaign, Fortress Europa and African Campaign. They still make their trademark "Fieldmarshall" board entry level war game too - with glossy die cut counters and mounted boards all.

It's such a pleasure to now walk into a true retail war gaming shop in a mainstream, busy shopping strip and see kids wowing over the latest Warhamer, Star Wars or other card games, shop staff talking an RPG lingo I'll never understand and guys like me gawking at the cut n' trim war gaming displays! I'm sure one day they'll have me painting little mechs and rolling D100

Btw, I'm told "Lock and Load Band of Heroes" is on its way there. Good job David. I'm in.

Adam.

(in reply to aysi)
Post #: 19
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/6/2005 10:43:10 AM   
aysi

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 4/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks Adam
I know all about Milsims,think i got my first S&T mag mailed up to Sydney, The Vera Cruz Game,but just because they have been around does not mean they can charge like they do
I have since gone over their site and most of the GMT games are way over what i pay for them,and Adam it is about prices sorry to say

Just letting other folks know that there is a cheaper alternative

The shop front does look nice

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 20
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/6/2005 11:26:27 AM   
Thierry31

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		I bought the whole LnL series (FH, AA & BoH) because this system fits exactly to what I was looking for : A fast and enjoyable tactical game, and it is exactly what LnL is.

But sincerely I'd take time to think about buying a second time most of this "Vietnam reprint". An upgrade kit would fit better to me and as said some others players before, I'd prefer to see LnL in other areas (Falklands, Aftermath etc...).

Aftermath may even allow me to bring my friends who enjoy Vampire and Werewolf RPG around a wargaming table

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 21
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/6/2005 1:12:31 PM   
markhwalker


Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Given that I really couldn't see LnL Nam coming in sub USD $100.


It would be lower than $100, much lower (probably 15%). AsI said at CSW, this might not be the best place to float the idea for two reasons:
1) It ISN"T a reprint. In fact, there is not a SINGLE piee that will be the same. Yes the scenarios will be the same (but with a new layout), but all the art is new, it includes French and Korean counters, seven new scenarios, a new map (in addition to new map art), and eight new skill cards (in addition to new art on the old ones).
2) Most of the folks posting here have the old one.
3) Okay, I can't count. I think the best way is to post it as a P500 and let the wallets decide.

Best,

Mark

(in reply to Thierry31)
Post #: 22
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/6/2005 2:34:01 PM   
Thierry31

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		I suppose that my collector instinct will make me preorder this item too, French and Korean counters, how can I resist ?


(in reply to markhwalker)
Post #: 23
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/6/2005 8:34:10 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker


quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker

Eight maps --(7 FH and AA redone and 1 new --all mounted in the BoH style)

Three counter sheets --(FH art redone, AA counters, and 1/2 of a sheet of new counters --currently slated to include French forces from the First IndoChina War and the Koren Tiger Division from our tour in Vietnam) ...

This i the biggest game we have done, and --unfortunately-- would be priced accordingly. I'm not talking Streets of Stalingrad pricing, but it would be more than BoH. AND... it's not like all future modules would cost that much. Subsequent BoH-sized modules would have BoH pricing (barring unforseen printer price increases.)

Mark


Hi Mark,

8 mounted maps would make for some hefty freight charges too. You may be looking at a box the size of MMP's ASL module "For King and Country" - and much heavier - or something even sturdier capable of surviving shipment to shelf or home.

IIRC Avalanche Press' forthcoming revamp of Panzer Grenadier (East Front) will contain 8 maps too but card stock. 660 counters equates to roughly 8 counter sheets I estimate. They're slating a US rrp of $75 for that alone.

MMP's beyond Valor with 4 mounted boards is showing USD $85.

Given that I really couldn't see LnL Nam coming in sub USD $100. I think the hobby needs the game but can't see the logistics at this stage. I'm a big fan of mounted mapboards when done well - tight fitting and solid quality but 8 maps may be catering for the paper and plexiglass fan to make such a box saleable?

Adam.



Hi Adam

Remember that BoH has 6 mounted maps and 3 countersheets. My guess with the extra two maps, cards, and scenario sheets would have a selling price of around $80.00 - $85.00

David



_____________________________


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Post #: 24
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/7/2005 12:07:30 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Hi Adam

Remember that BoH has 6 mounted maps and 3 countersheets. My guess with the extra two maps, cards, and scenario sheets would have a selling price of around $80.00 - $85.00

David


Hi David,

I'm very happy to stand corrected. It honestly skipped me that Lock and Load Band of Heroes already has 6 maps. Great value. I see where Mark's coming from now.

Yes. LnL Nam at that price will indeed fill a comfortable hobby niche. On par with other companies but with better, more and higher quality components and plenty of tools for DYO.

Adam.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 25
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 9/7/2005 4:35:28 AM   
bbonnevier

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/10/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds great Mark - great to hear 1st ICW would be covered. Now, if you could only throw in a Swift Boat or LCM!

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 26
What's a P500? - 9/16/2005 2:09:57 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		Mark's been refering to a P500.

Whatis that?

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 27
RE: What's a P500? - 9/16/2005 3:04:17 AM   
crabe tambour


Posts: 73
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		P500 is a common way now to publish wargames, it seems. The game compagny wait to have 500 (or XXX) preordered games to launch the production (usually, the credit card is charged only when the production is launched). GMT do that for all his games. To me, it's a good way to make happy both customers and game compagny..

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 28
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 12/13/2005 9:26:57 PM   
Archinerd

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		I realize this is an older thread, but for what its worth I would be very intersted in this. I waited too long on the original Lock N' Load: Forgotten Heroes and now its out of print. I have been considering buying Band of Heroes, but to be honest I'm not all that interested in another WWII game.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 29
RE: Lock n Load: The Nam Idea - 12/20/2005 3:27:14 PM   
markhwalker


Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		We're interested in it too. More to come in 2006...

Best,

Mark

(in reply to Archinerd)
Post #: 30
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