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RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound

 
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RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/1/2005 6:50:33 AM   
popejoy1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
Dibs on the aircraft histories. I'll get up a para or two on each air unit counter and see if its useful. It's a starting point if nothing else.
Rather than a paragraph or two - how about 2 or 3 sentences with a notation about how much more could be said (+, ++, +++).

OK, gives me something constructive to do while waiting for the test phase to begin.

One observation on Popejoy's comment re: ... appropriate sound information (boom / splash / Stuka sirens / artillyer fire / bombs whistling down / aircraft maneuvering / etc) . Since WiF is a strategic game then I ponder the immediate applicability of those tactical sound effects. Perhaps sounds of troops marching or massed aircraft flyovers could give a better "big picture" effect. Maybe both types of sound bites can find their niche within the game.


Hi!

I was thinking about "boom!" sound effects as an option if animation is used to help present combat results (depending the kind of attacking unit and the kind of defending unit). If there's no animation, I would agree that the sound effects might be a bit out of place in a strategic game (and therefore should also be optional).

Pablo

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 31
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/2/2005 11:14:19 AM   
wosung

 

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Please do not overburden the gameplay with animations without the option to turn them off: They are time-consuming and do require fast PCs. I would rather like to see quick combat solutions in the opponents phase and a visual overview of all the hot-spots at the beginnig of my playing phase. But I like the ideas about historical music and speeches very much. This will create atmosphere without being all too time-consuming.
Regards

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wosung

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Post #: 32
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/2/2005 11:19:17 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung
Please do not overburden the gameplay with animations without the option to turn them off: They are time-consuming and do require fast PCs. I would rather like to see quick combat solutions in the opponents phase and a visual overview of all the hot-spots at the beginnig of my playing phase. But I like the ideas about historical music and speeches very much. This will create atmosphere without being all too time-consuming.
Regards


Could you tell me more about what you mean by the above phrase I colored blue? I could make a guess, but it would be better if I just listened to you describe what you envision.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 33
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/2/2005 11:44:29 AM   
wosung

 

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I think there are 2 styles of animated combat resolutions:
1. you see the actual combat plus results one by one (like in Hearts of Iron, or "animated" war in the pacific, WitP)
2. after non-interactive parts of a phase, there is some sort of overview, either sort of tabular textual combat information screen "combat in hex xy, result xy" (like in WitP) or graphical symbols on the map to click on for the information, which I prefer (like in Witp game tool or the older Gary Grigsby games Pacific war, war in Russia).
Its all about playing time and interaction: with slow turn resolution in monster-games you don't have to be a RTS fanboy to just prefer a quick combat summary. I like to stay in the game-flow, instead of watching repetitive animations or lengthy phasing-players actions, if there's nothing to do for me for a long time.
Regards

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wosung

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Post #: 34
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/2/2005 12:27:39 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

I think there are 2 styles of animated combat resolutions:
1. you see the actual combat plus results one by one (like in Hearts of Iron, or "animated" war in the pacific, WitP)
2. after non-interactive parts of a phase, there is some sort of overview, either sort of tabular textual combat information screen "combat in hex xy, result xy" (like in WitP) or graphical symbols on the map to click on for the information, which I prefer (like in Witp game tool or the older Gary Grigsby games Pacific war, war in Russia).
Its all about playing time and interaction: with slow turn resolution in monster-games you don't have to be a RTS fanboy to just prefer a quick combat summary. I like to stay in the game-flow, instead of watching repetitive animations or lengthy phasing-players actions, if there's nothing to do for me for a long time.
Regards


There are 2 situations that arise for seeing the other players' moves.

One is when it is done concurrently. The player moves a unit and you see what he is doing as he does it. This is the way it would work when you play agains the AI opponent, for example. Your view of the detailed map is updated as the opponent moves each unit from hex to hex (or sea area to sea area). I could also make this happen during an Internet game. It gets a little tricky, because there might be several opponents moving at once which could result in the screen jumping around from Europe to China and back - like watching MTV with 1/2 second scene changes.

The second situation is when the player has entered a bunch of moves and you are viewing them after the fact. This comes up in PBEM games and would be the standard way of bringing a player in an Internet game up to date if he stepped away from the computer for 5 - 10 minutes.

Let's focus on the second one. Possibly a lot has happened and the question is what (how much) to show the player and how. I am particularly interested in what controls should be given to the player so the review is what he wants to see, no more and no less. One breakdown might be by theater of operations. Another could be by unit type (land, air, or naval). Another could just be combats (land, air, or naval). Yet another could be reinforcement placements, say, at the beginning of a turn.

I like the idea of using the lefthand column to bring up all combats for review. Each hex and sea area where a combat occurred would be listed and the player could select them in any order he likes. I could do the same for units that have moved (or been reorganized, or arrived as reinforcements). This would let you see how the enemy is positioning his armor or fighters, for instance. For how the review plays out, I would like to just repeat what the enemy saw when he was moving the unit or fighting the combat. Besides making the programming easier (using the same code), it also would be familiar to the player. The argument is that if there are two different ways of viewing a unit move/fight then one is better than the other and it should be used all the time - with the second one trashed.

I'm falling asleep now; eyes starting to cross. Let me know if I'm on the right track. I'll give this a fresh think tomorrow.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 35
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/2/2005 7:11:20 PM   
mlees


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I own this monster board game, and CWiF, and that affects the preconceptions I may bring to the table with my suggestions. Other posters here have already suggested the same things I will, so please forgive the repetition.

1) Historical Detail:

Hmmm. I am a WW2 history "fanboy", and I like sharing this interest with anybody patient enough to put up with it, but not everyone shares the same level of interest. There are actually two aspects to look at on this topic:

A) The first is the actual real world history of WW2 and all that involves.

This database could get quite extensive, especially if the histories of each military formation/ship had it's own entry. Encyclopedia sized database. Several hundred Megs of text. That would take a long time to collect and edit.

If you just do a broad overview of the war with selected units being spotlighted (like the U.S.S. Enterprise, or a summary of the P-51D Mustang), it will be a little more managable, but the average customer will probably not use it that extensively.

Some games I have played in the past just had paragraph sized "snapshot" summations of selected bits of the war (Like the Battle of the Atlantic) printed in the game manual. Those are probably the most doable.

Obviously time & effort versus utility will dictate how much of this type of data you wish to package up for the masses. Whether or not an in-game link or hot key for access to this database needs to be added to the interface is open to debate, but I think a single pull down menu item is sufficient. It can minimize the game window (for you windows users. I don't know MacIntosh stuff at all...) and call up a database interface browser.

B) Game history

A "replay" feature that shows a map overview with different colored shading that represents the hexes/araes controlled by each power comes to mind, here. (Kinda like the "Civ" games.) You could have a table/chart that shows and compares the production capacity of the major powers turn by turn, with possiblity to include what that production was spent on by gearing limits.

I am not a programmer, but B) sounds doable, and the grognards would eat that kind of feature up.

2) Animation

Hmmm. I dont see a whole lot of need for this. (Based on my CWiF preconceptions.) Having nice artwork for the game counters is what I hope for. (Being able to see the same ship silhouette, aircraft image, etc, as the "Ships in Flames" and "Planes in Flames" counters would be ideal for me. Possibly expand this to land units by including images of tank models for armored units, infantry soldiers by nationality, etc.)

This isn't a real time strategy game, and there shouldn't be animated tanks and aircraft buzzing about shooting at one another. That is just my opinion, but in GGWAW, I turned that stuff off almost immediately.

As units are destroyed (or damaged, for ships) in battle, a little puff of smoke and flames is ok. For ships that are damaged (and remain on the board) during sea battles, they can "smoke" to give a visual indication of there damage status. Damaged hex facilities (like damaged factories) can also "smoke". After land combat, the counters "slide" into the newly conquered hex. Air Units "slide" from their base hex to the target hexes. This level of animation is sufficient for me.

You can have a short animated video clip of "something pertinent" as each phase is started, but that could get old, too.

In any case, animation needs to be short and to the point. It would be annoying to have to sit through the same 30 second video of a ship sinking after each ship loss or battle. And for goodness sake, make it an option feature that can be toggled off. Also, toggling off animation makes the game more friendly to low end systems.

3) Sound

As units are moved or engage in combat, the appropriate sounds are played. I select an infantry corps (or stack of land units) to move, the tramp of boots or the rumble of engines. Land units fight, I hear rifle fire, or artillery fire, etc.

But again, make it short. There is a lot of clicking in the game, and long sound (or animation) clips make that annoying. It will seem more annoying during "misclicks".

If, for example, every time I click on a unit to select it (to inspect the stack, move, or fight), the game plays a clip of some guy going "Yes Sir!" or "Awaiting orders, sir!", these sounds will get old. A simple "click" sound is best here.

Thank you for the opprotunity to offer these viewpoints.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 36
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/2/2005 9:16:11 PM   
macgregor


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Animations IMHO would be too time consuming(for the player and the programmer) to be worth the effort. I know they could be done to look great. Perhaps a series of sounds based on weapons, then results. I'd prefer the ability to learn more about the war. For example first you analyze a stack , then you analyze a unit in that stack. You should see details about that unit. In addition to what's in CWIF you might want to add a plate drawing of the uniform or primary vehicle(or both) and perhaps some superflous information like wartime numbers of men and or vehicles, or the size of the primary battery for ships and maybe one sentence about each unit. If you allow a non-fullscreen display would be nice,as it would allow me to set my own music to the game. I must say I'm very impressed with amount of cerebral energy I'm encountering on this forum. Thanks Steve.

< Message edited by macgregor -- 9/2/2005 9:21:33 PM >

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 37
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/3/2005 12:27:55 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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I like all the posts I have been reading in this thread. Sometime in the next couple of days I will pull them all together and post a summary of what I have heard. That shouldn't be taken as an attempt to close the door on suggestions. Indeed, I hope that the summary will provoke some more discussion. As always, I am looking to acheive a consensus of the forum members - I even have hopes for unanimous aggreement.

This is a little off topic while still being on topic ... I just got back from performing on the USS Missouri in Pearl Harbor at the 60th anniversity of the signing of the Japanese surrender documents which ended WW II. For those of you who don't know, the USS MIssouri is a sister ship of the USS Arizona. The latter was sunk during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor 12/7/41 and a memorial sits astride the ship in Pearl Harbor - the final resting place for 1177 men who died on her that day. The Missouri was the battleship on which the Japanese signed their unconditional surrender to the Allies 9/2/1945, in Tokyo Bay. The Missouri is open to visitors and is very impressive. It is moored 1000 yards from the Arizona Memorial. I was singing patriotic songs as a member of a barbershop chorus - a cappella martial music. Very emotional ceremony.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 38
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/3/2005 1:11:55 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

For those of you who don't know, the USS MIssouri is a sister ship of the USS Arizona.

I'm sorry to differ, but the USS Missouri (BB-63) is not a sister ship to BB Arizona (BB-39).
USS Missouri is a Class Iowa Battleship (45000 tons, 9 x 16" guns, 33 knots), USS Arizona (31400 tons, 12 x 14" guns, 21 knots) is a Class Pennsylvania Battleship.

For more, see
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/63a.htm.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39d.htm.

Patrice

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Post #: 39
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/3/2005 1:14:28 AM   
Greyshaft


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any sound recordings made

Aircraft histories coming along fine. Interesting that ADG seem to have taken a couple of ...ahem... liberties when assembling the PiF counter mix.

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Post #: 40
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/3/2005 1:29:21 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

Aircraft histories coming along fine. Interesting that ADG seem to have taken a couple of ...ahem... liberties when assembling the PiF counter mix.

Are you talking about the old PiF rulebook ? I seem to remember that there were charts at the end of the booklet showing some informations about the planes. There was also aircraft histories in it ? I do not have mine handy to look inside it.

What liberties are you talking about ? *curious*

Cheers !

Patrice

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Post #: 41
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/3/2005 9:02:23 PM   
Mziln


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

This database could get quite extensive, especially if the histories of each military formation/ship had it's own entry. Encyclopedia sized database. Several hundred Megs of text. That would take a long time to collect and edit.


You would have to give credit to ALL to your sources and get perrmission to use the information from the sources to avoid copyright infringement.

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Post #: 42
Copyright and PiF anomolies - 9/4/2005 2:46:56 AM   
Greyshaft


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Mziln,
Copyright is only an issue if I do wholesale cut and paste… which I am not doing. I am certainly using PiF reference tables but since ADG/Matrix is the beneficiary of the work I don’t see a problem there. I certainly don't have to cite EVERY reference I find on the web unless they are presenting unique research which I copy into my own work


Patrice,
Some anomalies in the air units are:
Belgium CR-42 Bis – only 24 of these lightly armed biplanes were bought from Italy . How can they be considered an air unit compared to the 200+ aircraft which make up other air units? Maybe there was local production in Belgium? Still checking

Bulgarian DAR10F – according to http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/waf/bulgaria/types/dar.htm this aircraft wasn’t in production until 1945 but PiF has it entering in 1938. Maybe they mean the DAR-8?

These are just anomalies. They are interesting in themselves but they don’t mean that the game is flawed.


_____________________________

/Greyshaft

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RE: Copyright and PiF anomolies - 9/4/2005 3:19:07 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

Patrice,
Some anomalies in the air units are:
Belgium CR-42 Bis – only 24 of these lightly armed biplanes were bought from Italy . How can they be considered an air unit compared to the 200+ aircraft which make up other air units? Maybe there was local production in Belgium? Still checking

Bulgarian DAR10F – according to http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/waf/bulgaria/types/dar.htm this aircraft wasn’t in production until 1945 but PiF has it entering in 1938. Maybe they mean the DAR-8?

These are just anomalies. They are interesting in themselves but they don’t mean that the game is flawed.

Thanks
I'm happy you shared what you found.
I agree with you, this doesn't flaws the game, not at all. We just have to remember the time when all the FTR had the same silhouette and the same range on the counters . The PiF pretty representations were only there to make the game more fun & attractive, and to give it a better historical feel (which worked, for me).

Interesting what you found, especially for the DAR-10.
For the CR-42, maybe they put that name on the counter just to put something else than "Mixed" as they put on the Brazilian & Mexican ones. They could have written Gladiators too, but none would have been right. I'm not even sure that the Belgian Air Force in S/O 39 numbered 250 fighters .

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Post #: 44
RE: Copyright and PiF anomolies - 9/4/2005 3:30:09 PM   
wosung

 

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Belgian Airforce (Aéronautique militaire) in 1940:

234 aircraft altogether (180 operational) divided in 3 regiments: 1st observation and armycoop. (62 sevicable planes), 2nd fighter (79 servicable planes) , 3rd recon and bombing (41 servicable planes).

Source Andrew Mollow: The armned forces of WW2: Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, London 2001.
Regards

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wosung

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Post #: 45
RE: Copyright and PiF anomolies - 9/4/2005 3:39:29 PM   
wosung

 

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Problems with historical background info on units (apart from sources and copyright) will be:
-Land Units: putting together historical data about corps-, army sized formations because number, structure and TOE (of Divisions) changed alot. Esp. finding Data about Russian land Units will be fun
-Air Units: Consider all the Subtypes of Standard models (like ME 109, Spitfire...).
Regards

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 46
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/4/2005 8:36:42 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Here is my summary of the postings to date on Sound. I am still working on the animation and historical detail summaries.

This is still a work in progress and in no way should be considered a final design. I put this summary together to enable us to better understand where we are at the present. There is much work yet to be done. For example, there are over 60 different unit types in MWIF.

If I misunderstood any of your points, don't be shy. Tell me so I can correct my mistakes.
==========================
Sound
Optional

Both music and sound effects are optional that can be turned on and off at any time during a game. By default they start on, but as MWIF loads, the player is notified how he can turn them off. This is so a player with a less powerful computer system can speed up loading the program. When a player first starts MWIF, it is suggested that he review the game interface screen where he can set options to personalize what MWIF does and does not do.

While on that topic, let me add that MWIF has two sets of options: (1) optional rules for what is included in the simulation of WW II, and (2) game interface options. The former are set before a game begins and usually remain unchanged for the rest of that game. The later can be changed by the player at any time during the game, more or less depending on his mood.

Individual sound effects and music are pre-configured when the player first installs MWIF. At any time thereafter, the player can select a specific sound from a menu for some of the locations in the game sequence where sounds are generated (e.g., unit movement, unit disruption, unit destruction, bombs falling). This is not an elaborate system, but it provides for some personalization of the sound effects. Alternatively, the program can be configured to select sound effects randomly from the menu choices.

Music

Historical music can create atmosphere without being too time-consuming. It should give the player a different feeling for each nation and be educational as well, enabling the player to become familiar with different countries’ anthems and marches. National anthems are played for major events, a "national march" for victories, and a "national hymn" for defeats. Some examples are:
USA: Anthem: "The Star Spangled Banner" (Sousa), March: "The Stars and Stripes Forever" (Sousa), Air Victory: "Wild Blue Yonder", Naval Victory: "Anchors Aweigh", Hymn: "Adagio For Strings" (Barber).
UK: Anthem: "God Save the King", March: "Rule Britannia", Hymn: "War Requiem" (Britten)

Music can be repeated somewhat more often than videos before it gets boring, but the player has a couple of other options for avoiding too much repetition. Each country has its own folder of MP3's to which the players can add their own selections. Also, MWIF does not require a full screen display, so a player can select his own music to be playing in the background during a game.

Sound Effects

As units move or engage in combat, appropriate sounds are played. This also happens for certain screens. Sounds might be repeated somewhat more often than video, but worrying about too much repetition is important. In particular, every time a player clicks on a unit (to select the unit, inspect the stack, move, or fight), a simple "click" sound is produced rather than something more distinctive, which would quickly become annoying.

Screens
Industrial clanging for the production screen,
Tropical jungle sounds when examining a hex stack in Burma.

Movement
Diesel rumbling or the noise of the tracks when tanks move,
Noise of trucks when motorized units move,
Noise of boots when leg troops move,
Inline or radial engine noise for aircraft maneuvering,
Train toots for movement by rail

Combat
Varies depending on the kind of attacking and defending units/weapons and combat result
Explosion sound when a unit is attacked and destroyed,
Stukas diving when flying ground strike missions
Stuka sirens
Bombs whistling
Artillery fire
Noise of the relevant type of gun AA fires, when ART bombs, etc...
Parachutes opening on an airborne assault.
Words "Go, go, go" when paratroopers jump,
Splash


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 47
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/4/2005 9:13:24 PM   
rtamesis

 

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Looks good. Again, itis really important to make clear early on to the player how to turn these options on or off in the middle of the game so that the player doesn't feel like he or she is trapped if the sound effects are all turned on and his or her family want to have some peace and quiet right in the middle of an exciting turn.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 48
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/4/2005 10:44:38 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtamesis

Looks good. Again, itis really important to make clear early on to the player how to turn these options on or off in the middle of the game so that the player doesn't feel like he or she is trapped if the sound effects are all turned on and his or her family want to have some peace and quiet right in the middle of an exciting turn.


Yeah, I know what you mean. Some games hide this stuff like it was buried treasure. I'll put it on the top menu and label it options (or something equally obvious).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 49
RE: Copyright and PiF anomolies - 9/5/2005 12:21:31 AM   
Greyshaft


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

Belgian Airforce (Aéronautique militaire) in 1940:

234 aircraft altogether (180 operational) divided in 3 regiments: 1st observation and armycoop. (62 sevicable planes), 2nd fighter (79 servicable planes) , 3rd recon and bombing (41 servicable planes).

Source Andrew Mollow: The armned forces of WW2: Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, London 2001.
Regards


I don't deny that Belgium is entitled to an air unit. My point was that only 24 of those aircraft were the CR-42Bis and the rest were"...Renards, Hurricanes, Gladiators and Fairey Foxes and Battles" ref: http://www.scramble.nl/be.htm. It just seems unusual for this country to be represented by an Italian made air unit.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

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Post #: 50
Background music - 9/5/2005 5:40:03 AM   
Greyshaft


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Music can be repeated somewhat more often than videos before it gets boring, but the player has a couple of other options for avoiding too much repetition. Each country has its own folder of MP3's to which the players can add their own selections. Also, MWIF does not require a full screen display, so a player can select his own music to be playing in the background during a game.


How about including a background music setting where MWiF just continually (randomly) cycles through all of the mp3 files in a particular (and quite seperate) directory. These would be full length pieces rather than sound bites. Just because I'm playing as Japan shouldn't prevent me from hearing Ride of the Valkyries

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

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Post #: 51
RE: Background music - 9/5/2005 6:12:35 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Music can be repeated somewhat more often than videos before it gets boring, but the player has a couple of other options for avoiding too much repetition. Each country has its own folder of MP3's to which the players can add their own selections. Also, MWIF does not require a full screen display, so a player can select his own music to be playing in the background during a game.


How about including a background music setting where MWiF just continually (randomly) cycles through all of the mp3 files in a particular (and quite seperate) directory. These would be full length pieces rather than sound bites. Just because I'm playing as Japan shouldn't prevent me from hearing Ride of the Valkyries


Ok. I'll go with something that can be customized by the player. However, it will be a very simple design, not some elaborate attempt to achieve glory.

_____________________________

Steve

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Post #: 52
RE: Background music - 9/5/2005 7:23:28 AM   
stretch

 

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how about a sound effect of a player taking the dice and throwing them at the wall while yelling an obscentity. Followed by the beer fridge door opening and closing, and then a bottle cap being removed. That would pretty much make it sound like my last game.


(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 53
RE: Background music - 9/5/2005 11:55:34 AM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

Belgian Airforce (Aéronautique militaire) in 1940:

234 aircraft altogether (180 operational) divided in 3 regiments: 1st observation and armycoop. (62 sevicable planes), 2nd fighter (79 servicable planes) , 3rd recon and bombing (41 servicable planes).

Source Andrew Mollow: The armned forces of WW2: Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, London 2001.
Regards


I don't deny that Belgium is entitled to an air unit. My point was that only 24 of those aircraft were the CR-42Bis and the rest were"...Renards, Hurricanes, Gladiators and Fairey Foxes and Battles" ref: http://www.scramble.nl/be.htm. It just seems unusual for this country to be represented by an Italian made air unit.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft


No critique at all. Just Information.
Regards


_____________________________

wosung

(in reply to stretch)
Post #: 54
RE: Background music - 9/5/2005 12:00:34 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

how about a sound effect of a player taking the dice and throwing them at the wall while yelling an obscentity. Followed by the beer fridge door opening and closing, and then a bottle cap being removed. That would pretty much make it sound like my last game.

Great, I love this !
Kind of emoticons in the latest MSN Messenger

< Message edited by Froonp -- 9/5/2005 12:01:00 PM >

(in reply to stretch)
Post #: 55
RE: Background music - 9/6/2005 5:22:14 AM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch

how about a sound effect of a player taking the dice and throwing them at the wall while yelling an obscentity. Followed by the beer fridge door opening and closing, and then a bottle cap being removed. That would pretty much make it sound like my last game.


This could be done using any wave or mp3 player. Then you could play what you wanted.

(in reply to stretch)
Post #: 56
RE: Background music - 9/6/2005 10:53:28 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline

I like the music style of the Operational Art of War series. The music is appropriately "wargamey" and dramatic, adding to the experience. There are not many tracks but (for me anyway) they don’t become annoying because one is usually concentrating on one's moves and not really on the music. Every now and again, I pause and think "Yeah! Nicely martial” as I envelop Kharkov/drive through the Ardennes/hang on at Anzio etc". If the music does get annoying and I turn it off, it’s usually not long before I miss the extra atmosphere and crank it up again.

That said, I would include as much music as possible. Using a lot of period music with some original stuff would probably be a good bang-for-buck compromise. Maybe not just “big picture” anthems too, but also a bit of “trench entertainment” squeeze-box/harmonica/ukulele style ditties…

(To the melody of the “Colonel Bogey March”)
“Hitler, he’s only got one ball,
Göring, has two but very small,
Himmler has something sim’lar,
But poor old Goebbels has no balls at all.”

Playtesting will find the right level of operational/tactical sound effects. Stuff like droning heavy bombers, shrieking diving Stukas, rumbling armour, that “whoop whoop” naval horn noise etc seem appropriate. (How do you do the sound of Italian Frogmen? Japanese minisubs? Hmmm. DFS 230 gliders landing on Eben Emael? Ok, the last one was a joke).

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 57
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/6/2005 9:54:06 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
Here is my summary of the posting to date on historical detail. I am still working on the animation summary.

This is still a work in progress and in no way should be considered a final design. I put this summary together to enable us to better understand where we are at the present. There is much work yet to be done.

If I misunderstood any of your points, don't be shy. Tell me, so I can correct my mistakes.
==========================
Historical Detail

[Copyright is always a concern when dealing with these matters.]

WW II Look and Feel

MWIF strives for a WWII look and feel, that is slightly different depending on which major power the player controls (Germany, Italy, Japan, the USA, the Commonwealth, the USSR, France, and China). The goal is to draw the player into the game and let them experience the atmosphere of the world of the late 1930's and early 1940's. At times it should be luxurious and at others grainy and down to earth. After all, it is primarily the history of WW II that attracts players to this game.

To achieve this goal of look and feel, MWIF provides images from the period, both military and civilian. This includes photographs, video, newspapers, and other visuals that are memorable from the era. These images appear not only in the opening screens but also encompass overall design of the windows and forms used to present information during game play. More detailed textual descriptions, with additional images, are available upon request by the player. For example, there are write ups on the famous soldiers and statesmen for each of the major powers.

Optional

The vast majority of historical details appear only when requested by the player, either indirectly by setting an option, or by direct request. They do not automatically appear unless the player has turned on the option for that to happen. These can be set when a game begins and changed using a simple pull down menu during a game.

Country information

MWIF includes a short history and important dates for each country, including minor countries that were important during WW II. This follows in the footsteps of Australian Design Group’s standard procedure to provide player notes for each scenario. Expanding on that concept, MWIF in some cases provides much more information on the background of the countries so the player can understand their recent past at the time of WWII and why they favored the Axis or Allied side. For example, here is a description for Algeria.

June 12, 1830 : France invades Algeria with 34,000 soldiers and occupies Algiers after a three-week campaign. France used the failure of the blockade as a reason for a military expedition against Algiers.

1834 : France annexed the occupied areas of Algeria, which had an estimated Muslim population of about 3 million, as a colony. Colonial administration in the occupied areas (the so-called régime du sabre, government of the sword) was placed under a governor general, a high-ranking army officer invested with civil and military jurisdiction, who was responsible to the minister of war.

1881 : France invaded Tunisia, claiming that Tunisian troops had crossed the border to Algeria, France's main colony in Northern Africa. Italy, also interested in Tunisia, protested, but did not risk a war with France.

[The Wikipedia is a good source for this.]

Unit information

When the player selects a unit, a large panel appears that provides historical details about the unit. This may include photographs, text, and a short description on the history of the unit during the war. It can be modified by the players so they can exchange files on units (or someone could create a library of same) which could be used to replace the ones that come with MWIF. Not every unit name appearing in MWIF has an historical counterpart. All the historical unit information is also accessible from an in-game browse function that lets the player read about every unit in the game.

Textual information can include:
∙ A short description of the unit’s creation and composition.
∙ Numbers of men and machines with descriptions of the later’s capabilities.
∙ Equipment upgrades, replacements, TOE, and commanders.
∙ Historical engagements, campaigns, victories, and defeats.
∙ MWIF game (current and previous) engagements, campaigns, victories, and defeats.

Visual images vary but can include:
∙ Plate drawings of the uniform or primary vehicle.
∙ For some ships, side color views of the ships and blueprints for the standard 3 engineering views (top, side, and end on).
∙ Unit patches and insignias.

Here is an example for the Sopwith Camel. It gives information about the unit for MWIF “this is one of 'x' Sopwith Camels in the game” and from its actual history “ The Sopwith Camel entered service in May 1917 and was armed with twin Vickers machine guns. It was a bastard of a plane to fly and the average life expectancy of an English pilot was little more than two weeks. It has been claimed that the Sopwith Camel was responsible for shooting down 1,294 enemy planes during the war. “

While the entries provided with MWIF are merely meant to spotlight some units without being exhaustive, the players can add to the database that comes with the game. This database could get quite extensive, especially if each military formation/ship has it's own detailed entry.

Map information

MWIF permits the player to access historical information on some of the important locations on the map as well. This primarily means major battles fought or events that happened at a particular location. The players can modify/augment this information.

Time line

MWiF contains is a WWII time line that can be filtered by theater of operations. For example, the European TOO contains the following:

1939
Sep/Oct Germany invades Poland, captures Warsaw, and Poland surrenders.
Nov/Dec USSR invades Finland.

1940
Jan/Feb Finland surrenders to USSR.
Mar/Apr Germany invades Denmark, Denmark surrenders, Germany invades Norway, captures Oslo, and Norway surrenders.
May/Jun Allies land at Narvik, Norway and later withdraw troops from Norway.
Germany invades Netherlands, Belgium, France, and captures Antwerp and Paris.

MWIF maintains two parallel time lines that show the actual history versus the game's history. Each turn the player can view the historical events that happened. For example, this enables the player to compare his capture of Paris against the historical date. When capitals or other major cities are captured or liberated, text descriptions are displayed about those events. The players can add to this database.

In addition to the time line, MWIF provides a broad overview of the war with paragraph sized "snapshot" summations of important aspects of the war (e.g., the Battle of the Atlantic).


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 58
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/6/2005 11:41:43 PM   
fuzzy_bunnyy

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 8/26/2005
Status: offline
this has been brought up elsewhere, but im not sure who to credit, so plz forgive me.

How about a button that lets you view your nations historical progress at the time? Obviously not applicable to certain things (Sea Lion and Japan-Russia War come to mind), but would still be a neat feature and probably not terribly hard to implement.

_____________________________

Member #3 of the EBEA
Comrade #4 of the e-Socialist Liberation Army

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 59
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 9/7/2005 12:25:19 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fuzzy_bunnyy
this has been brought up elsewhere, but im not sure who to credit, so plz forgive me.

How about a button that lets you view your nations historical progress at the time? Obviously not applicable to certain things (Sea Lion and Japan-Russia War come to mind), but would still be a neat feature and probably not terribly hard to implement.


I think the last 2 paragraphs of my summation cover what you are suggesting. Or is there more to your idea that I am missing?

quote:

MWIF maintains two parallel time lines that show the actual history versus the game's history. Each turn the player can view the historical events that happened. For example, this enables the player to compare his capture of Paris against the historical date. When capitals or other major cities are captured or liberated, text descriptions are displayed about those events. The players can add to this database.

In addition to the time line, MWIF provides a broad overview of the war with paragraph sized "snapshot" summations of important aspects of the war (e.g., the Battle of the Atlantic).


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to fuzzy_bunnyy)
Post #: 60
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