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RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 6:05:35 PM   
VikingNo2


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From: NC
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Don't have much to say I just thought my avatar and Sturmpionier's would look cool together

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Post #: 31
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 7:03:39 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
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The site put your post on a separate page. Sooo, to help you out, this just a gratitutous post to put our avatars together.

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Post #: 32
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 7:30:18 PM   
omegaall


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Cool????






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Post #: 33
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 7:58:05 PM   
monty pete


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Bravery was in certain circumstances present in the Romanian ranks. But by and large the Romanian troops lacked discipline, coordination, leadership (unless it was German led), equipment and morale etc. A few good eggs in an egg basket full of rotten ones makes little difference therefore to the end product which in this case is a shody performance by the Romanians during the war. As your sources say there were individual acts of heroism and occasionally good results however most of the time the Romanians were a poor force. Havig the results so low in morale etc is a little unfair.Busting them up about five points each ought to cover it though.

As for Finland, I personally still respect the Finns for their acheivements against the Russians in the Winter war, and I beleive if those forces had been present in their entirety at the start of the Contnuation war the Russians would probably have lost a hell of a lot more men in the north and even might have lost Leningrad. This however was not the case and it is a shame in terms of prestigethat the Finns did notkeep fighting the Russians. I do however understand why they picked a different course.

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Post #: 34
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 8:07:47 PM   
Terminus


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The Finns never had any intention of being sucked into Leningrad. All they wanted was to regain what the Soviets had stolen from them during the Winter War, and they did.

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(in reply to monty pete)
Post #: 35
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 8:22:53 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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I started a post awhile back about "Underappreciated Nations in SPWaW". See http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=922111

However, to see the kind of "sniping" and "partisanship" as displayed in this particular thread was not what I expected at all.

I will say this -- if I were still moderating this forum, some of you guys would've gotten verbal warnings about foul language and name-calling, but the thread itself would remain open.

None of the OOB designers had any sort of "anti-" anything agenda. I can say that because I WAS one of the latter-day OOB team members.

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Post #: 36
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 8:23:27 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: omegaall

Cool????





ROFL... yes this thread is quite hilarious, culminating with this post... seriously though, some people need to cool of with their patriotism and use less rude language.

I guess I post this just because I think my current avatar will sit nicely in the company of above two

Oleg


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Post #: 37
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 8:27:26 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

None of the OOB designers had any sort of "anti-" anything agenda.


Only one poster on this thread thought so...

< Message edited by Terminus -- 9/7/2005 8:47:46 PM >


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(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 38
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 8:36:34 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sturmpionier

I feel like Porky Pig in that Robin Hood spoof where everything that Daffy (Robin Hood) does winds up looking silly. Daffy is totally into it, but Porky is just laughing until he cries.

I'm starting to get the giggles again, so signing off for now,

Friar Duck

p.s. I think I will have to stop reading this thread before I have a stroke from the hilarity.


Ho! Ha! He! Dodge! Parry! Spin! Thrust! Pwanngg!!!! And he was using a buck and a quarter quarter staff!


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(in reply to Sturmpionier)
Post #: 39
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 10:49:05 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

None of the OOB designers had any sort of "anti-" anything agenda.


Only one poster on this thread thought so...


Good gravy! I think I am going to DIE from laughter. I don't post that often, but man this is the best one I have seen in a while. My point, originally, wasn't so much about 'rudeness' (although some nationalism carried us there) but about the absurdity of how it was put forward. More importantly, if someone can put Omegaall's hat on my head and then my head on Oleg Mastruko's body, you would have a world-beater avatar.


I just think it's funny that someone would monkey w/ video game attributes in order to prove a political point.

"I'll show those Communist Chinese who's boss. Ha! 30 morale ought to prove the folly of state-run agriculture."

I mean come on, this is funny stuff.


BTW I have officially died from laughter.

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(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 40
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 10:56:42 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sturmpionier

BTW I have officially died from laughter.


That explains your choice of avatar.

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Post #: 41
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/7/2005 11:14:19 PM   
KG Erwin


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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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This one's for Sturmpionier-- a fitting end to this thread may be contained in the following photo: "Had enough yet? Come over here and I'll gnaw on yer leg!"




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< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 9/7/2005 11:18:42 PM >

(in reply to AndrewC)
Post #: 42
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/8/2005 3:45:20 PM   
FNG


Posts: 514
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Devizes, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sturmpionier



"I'll show those Communist Chinese who's boss. Ha! 30 morale ought to prove the folly of state-run agriculture."

I mean come on, this is funny stuff.


BTW I have officially died from laughter.


I hope you realise that I just soiled my chair in the office and possibly ruptured something. My colleagues have enquired if I need medical help.

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FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

(in reply to Sturmpionier)
Post #: 43
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/8/2005 7:31:00 PM   
ibalkid

 

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You owe me 12 dollars for the keyboard i just ruined here at work by spewing my coffee all over it as i cackled like a madman. The monitor i was able to wipe down, no biggie, but i do expect 12 US dollars in my inbox by the end of the day!

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 44
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/8/2005 7:39:26 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
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From: Jennings, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ibalkid

You owe me 12 dollars for the keyboard i just ruined here at work by spewing my coffee all over it as i cackled like a madman. The monitor i was able to wipe down, no biggie, but i do expect 12 US dollars in my inbox by the end of the day!




Awesome!


If you are wondering how I typed this, go watch the creepy film "White Noise."

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Post #: 45
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/8/2005 9:27:41 PM   
Korpraali V


Posts: 659
Joined: 7/11/2005
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Ok, this is quite rude... but just had to try...







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Korpraali V -- 9/8/2005 9:33:00 PM >


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Post #: 46
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/8/2005 9:34:11 PM   
Goblin


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From: Erie,Pa. USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Korpraali V

Ok, this is quite rude... but just had to try...












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Post #: 47
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/9/2005 2:41:30 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
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From: Greenwood, Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sturmpionier

quote:

ORIGINAL: ibalkid

You owe me 12 dollars for the keyboard i just ruined here at work by spewing my coffee all over it as i cackled like a madman. The monitor i was able to wipe down, no biggie, but i do expect 12 US dollars in my inbox by the end of the day!




Awesome!


If you are wondering how I typed this, go watch the creepy film "White Noise."



WOW that is a GREAT movie!!
makes ya wonder huh?

_____________________________



(in reply to Sturmpionier)
Post #: 48
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/9/2005 7:10:42 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
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From: Jennings, FL, USA
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Definitely a spooky film.

The avatar hybrid above got me thinking. If we were to put everybody's avatars together, would it be really cool, or just a big goopy mess?

Hmm. I have nothing but time now that I am merely a floating specter (having died of laughter, if you want to understand the process, go see the film "Who Framed Roger Rabbit;" watch the weasel scenes.) However, I am thinking of applying for a promotion to poltergeist. You guys let me know since I am literally not going anywhere.

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(in reply to Alby)
Post #: 49
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/9/2005 10:26:56 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
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From: NC
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This is the avatar I use at the Depot, maybe me and Sturmpionier. Can start some sort of skeleton Warrior team




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Post #: 50
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 1:16:12 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewC

edit: but let me remind you what we're talking about here

// LEADER EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{70,75,75,75,70,65,60}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,60}, //FINNISH
{30,30,35,35,30,25,25}, //ITALIAN
{30,30,30,30,25,20,20}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,40,40,35,35,35}, //FRENCH
{50,50,55,55,60,60,60}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //BELGIUM

{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,45,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{55,55,55,60,60,65,65}, //CANADA


You are right. It is all subjective crap. Totally out of reason with history.

For example look at the British. In 1939-40 the British army had very fine leaders, well experienced regular army, most with war time experience in the first World War and other actions. By 1941-42 the rot had truly set in with the best officers being appointed to staff positions or killed in action and the rest bickering with each other along regimental lines.

By the time of 1st Alamein, the average British soldier was embarrassed by the waste caused by inept leadership. The feeling for senior officers was almost as bad as it had been in 1917 and bordered on hatred.

Only after Montgomery reintroduced the basic concept of professionalism where regimental commanders were told to obey orders or else, did leadership rise to pre-war levels. There is no reason for British leadership to be as high as 55 in 1941 (higher than in 1940) but also no reason why British leadership should be lower than say that of Japan in 1939.

The Canadian statistic is laughable. Who would accept that Canadian leaders in 1939-40 would have more experience than the French or Belgians - or Italians for that matter?

THe entire list needs to be reworked. If Japan is used as the yardstick since it appears that Japanese leadership was consistent throughout the war years, it should not be difficult to arrive at a more acceptible chart.


< Message edited by Major Destruction -- 9/11/2005 1:17:26 AM >

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Post #: 51
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 3:50:59 AM   
VikingNo2


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From: NC
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Your right the leadership does seem low. The problem is what is average. I don't know. With levels in the 20's they are almost not playable.

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Post #: 52
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 4:20:52 AM   
KG Erwin


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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

Your right the leadership does seem low. The problem is what is average. I don't know. With levels in the 20's they are almost not playable.


Yeah, history sucked, didn't it? What do you guys want to do, have a politically correct OOB set?

Give me a freakin break. Yes, most of the minors in 1939 were bad, and so were some of the majors.

As a general rule, the conqueror nations (Germany and Japan), seem to be pretty damn good.

In game terms, it's the way it should be.

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Post #: 53
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 4:37:02 AM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
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From: Combat Information Center
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quote:

// LEADER EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{70,75,75,75,70,65,60}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,60}, //FINNISH
{30,30,35,35,30,25,25}, //ITALIAN
{30,30,30,30,25,20,20}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,40,40,35,35,35}, //FRENCH
{50,50,55,55,60,60,60}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //BELGIUM
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //DUTCH
{45,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //POLISH
{30,35,40,45,50,55,60}, //SOVIET
{40,40,45,50,55,50,55}, //US ARMY
{55,55,55,60,65,70,70}, //US MARINE
{25,25,25,30,35,40,40}, //CHINESE
{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,45,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{55,55,55,60,60,65,65}, //CANADA
{45,50,55,55,60,60,60}, //INDIA
{55,55,55,60,65,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,55,60,55,60,60}, //FREE FRENCH
{25,25,25,25,25,35,45}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{50,55,55,55,55,60,60}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{40,40,45,60,55,60,55}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,50,50,50,50,55,55}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{45,50,50,50,50,55,55}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{30,30,35,35,30,25,25}, //BULGARIA

// LEADER MORALE
// 1939 to 1945
{70,70,70,70,70,65,50}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,55}, //FINNISH
{40,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //ITALIAN
{35,35,35,40,35,30,25}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,40,45,40,35,30}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,35,35,30,30,30}, //FRENCH
{60,60,60,60,60,60,55}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,55,60,55}, //BELGIUM
{45,45,45,50,55,60,55}, //DUTCH
{60,55,50,55,60,65,60}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{40,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //US ARMY
{55,55,60,65,70,70,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,40,40,40,40}, //CHINESE
{60,60,60,55,60,65,65}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //CANADA
{45,45,45,50,50,55,55}, //INDIA
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,55,60,55,60,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,40,40,45,45}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{40,40,55,60,55,60,55}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{35,35,40,45,40,35,30}, //BULGARIA

// TROOPS EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{65,70,75,70,65,60,55}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,60}, //FINNISH
{35,35,40,40,35,30,30}, //ITALIAN
{35,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,35,35,30,30,30}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,65,60,55}, //JAPANESE
{45,45,45,45,40,40,40}, //FRENCH
{50,50,50,55,60,60,60}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //BELGIUM
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //DUTCH
{45,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //SOVIET
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //US ARMY
{50,50,50,55,60,65,70}, //US MARINE
{30,30,30,35,40,40,40}, //CHINESE
{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,45,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{50,50,50,55,60,65,65}, //CANADA
{40,45,50,55,55,60,60}, //INDIA
{50,50,50,55,60,65,65}, //ANZAC
{45,45,50,55,50,55,60}, //FREE FRENCH
{30,35,40,40,45,45,55}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{45,50,50,50,50,50,50}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{35,35,40,40,45,50,50}, //PHILIPINNES
{35,40,50,50,50,50,50}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{35,40,45,45,40,35,35}, //BULGARIA

// TROOPS MORALE
// 1939 to 1945
{70,70,70,70,70,65,50}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,55}, //FINNISH
{40,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //ITALIAN
{35,35,35,40,35,30,25}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,40,45,40,35,30}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,35,35,30,30,30}, //FRENCH
{60,60,60,60,60,60,55}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,55,60,55}, //BELGIUM
{45,45,45,50,55,60,55}, //DUTCH
{60,55,50,55,60,65,60}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{40,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //US ARMY
{55,55,60,65,70,70,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,40,40,40,40}, //CHINESE
{60,60,60,55,60,65,65}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //CANADA
{45,45,45,50,50,55,55}, //INDIA
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,55,60,55,60,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{25,25,20,20,25,30,30}, //PHILIPINNES
{40,45,45,45,45,45,45}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{25,25,30,30,25,25,25}, //BULGARIA


Of course, Gunny. As we can see, your favorite boys are right on target, historically speaking, aren't they?

C'mon. USMC leaders with higher experience in 1940 than British leaders, who had been in combat against the Italians in North Africa? Marine troopers with the same experience in 1940 as the British troops, who were fighting in North Africa?? Worse yet, Marines with higher experience in 1939 than Indian troops, who, led by British officers, had been dealing with the Northwest Frontier and bands of raiding hillmen for years before war broke out???

I won't argue the Morale ratings, because that stat is somewhat subjective...it depends on what the term "morale" means to the person defining it. But the Experience rating...I'm sure that actual combat experience has to play some part in this rating. Otherwise, it's a meaningless stat. And the USMC, as well as the US Army, had little actual combat experience before 1942. Period.

Oops...I'm in trouble now. After all, can't make the US forces look bad here.

_____________________________


(in reply to AndrewC)
Post #: 54
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 5:09:47 AM   
KG Erwin


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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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Flashfyre, I requested that the USMC levels be REDUCED from earlier OOB versions, and so they were. The high leadership levels are the result of the combat experience gained in the "Banana wars" of the 30s. A hard core of experienced officers and non-coms served as the core for a future expansion, which came to pass after Pearl Harbor. A policy of splitting and expanding, amoeba-like, guaranteed that a uniform quality would be assured. This policy was maintained by the Marine Corps throughout the war.

Yeah, the Marines are my favorites, and now, in comparison to their fearsome Japanese opponents, they still have a very tough time in the early days. Look at the Japanese-- my god, the Orientals WERE superior to us, at least in game terms. No wonder we ended up having to burn and blast these men to death in the last two years of the Pacific War.

You have a problem with that?





< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 9/11/2005 5:25:45 AM >


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Post #: 55
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 7:15:16 AM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline
I have a problem with arbitrary determinations as to the Leadership ratings in the game. By what criteria were these ratings determined, and why are some of them nearly science fiction? From my extensive reading over the years, I have yet to see any historian give definitive evidence that certain national militaries were better than others, when they hadn't been in combat. Peacetime training and wargames do not equate to combat experience; troops who have "seen the elephant" have the edge over those who haven't.

You yourself have pointed out that US equipment should be made available in the game when it makes its combat debut. Now you would have me believe that the entire Marine Corps wasn't gutted like the rest of the US military during the 20's and 30's...and it acquired combat experience in a group of ficticious "wars"? And this is why the Marines in the game should have higher experience than the British?? The only thing the Marines did during the 30's was practice amphibious landings and reorganize their force composition; there were no "banana wars" for them to fight in. Unless you used the term to describe the riot control duties in Nicaragua, or the guarding of the mail in China. See this link for more information: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/I/index.html#

I'll quote some of it here to highlight points of interest:

quote:

As of 30 June 1939, two months before Hitler's armies launched their Blitzkrieg, Marine Corps strength stood at 19,432 officers and enlisted, of whom 4,840 (including aviation components) were assigned to the Fleet Marine Force. FMF ground forces were organized in two units optimistically designated "brigades," each in actuality an understrength infantry regiment reinforced by skeletonized supporting elements: 1st Brigade based on the east coast (Quantico), 2d Brigade on the west coast (San Diego). Each brigade had the support of a Marine aircraft group of corresponding numerical designation, and FMF aviation further boasted a scouting squadron (VMS-3) based in the Virgin Islands.


Slightly less than 20,000 men before war begins.

quote:

However, conversion of international tension into armed conflict in Europe resulted in a marked quickening of United States defense efforts. And from that point on the Commandant's Annual Reports reflect a steady succession of upward revisions in personnel planning until by 30 November 1941 total strength stood at 65,881, the number give or take a few, with which the Marine Corps would enter the war against the Axis Powers a week later at Pearl Harbor


From 20,000 to almost 66,000 in 18 months.

quote:

But of greater significance than the increase in over-all strength was the growing proportion of that strength represented by the Fleet Marine Force. Fiscal 1940 saw the numbers of the Corps' striking arm more than doubled: from 4,525 to 9,749; and this figure in turn had more than tripled by 30 November 1941, reaching 29,532. One factor largely responsible for this impressive increase was mobilization in November 1940 of the entire Organized Marine Corps Reserve, both ground and air, thus making available a large number of officers and men, at least partially trained, for incorporation into the FMF with a minimum of delay.


And the striking force of the Marines rose from 4,500 in 1939 to 30,000 at the end of 1941. Again, in 18 months.

In 18 months, the USMC tripled in size, yet was not involved in any combat theater. Taking the Experience rating in the game as a representation of the average Marine soldier, can you honestly say the entire Corps deserves that rating?

How does this history explain why the USMC force in the game has Leader and Troop Experience equal to the British Tommies, who had been at war in the desert, as well as France, for most of that 18 month period?
How??

I am not advocating lowering the USMC ratings; I am, however, vehemently calling for the entire list to be reviewed and brought into line with historical evidence. National armies who were in combat theaters should have numbers higher than those who weren't.

_____________________________


(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 56
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 8:24:54 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
Thanks for your insights, Flashfyre. I look forward to seeing your version of what the ratings should be. We can pass them on to Michael and go from there.

As for the fictitious banana wars in Nicaragua and Haiti, US Marines did die there, and many future WWII Marine leaders such as Lewis "Chesty" Puller fought in those non-existent battles against regional terrorists.

By your standards, Flashfyre, I suppose the current riot actions in Iraq don't exist either.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 9/11/2005 8:35:45 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to FlashfyreSP)
Post #: 57
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 4:44:34 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline
Well, what can I say in the face of your overwhelming fan-atic love of all things jarhead?

As far as I'm concerned, facing bandits in Nicaragua isn't the same as facing trained and well-led soldiers from the Empire of Japan (who, by the way, had been in combat in China and Manchuria for years). And only a small proportion of the USMC had this experience to begin with. Spread out over 60,000 troops...that certainly qualifies the entire Marine Corps to have an equal or higher Experience rating than nations who had already been at war.

But I can see that your love affair with the Corps simply blinds you to any non-partisan evaluation of the facts. Keep believin' what you believe...

Oh, and it's pointless for you to bring up current events in Iraq and other locations in this discussion; we are talking about the Marines of World War II, not the Corps of today.

_____________________________


(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 58
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/11/2005 8:32:44 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline
Hi, Why don't you just edit the ratings and drop the subject?
The USMC had been in constant service since 1900. Many of the regt and higher officers were WWI veterans. The USMC showed it's quality at Wake, In the Philippines and in Aug 42 in the Solomons. (less then 11 months into the war)The USMC conducted major opposed landings from 1943 on (different Marine divisions often the first combat experiance for the unit as a whole but showing the quality of the USMC )
So yes it is clear that a USMC recruit was better then many "veterans" of other forces.

(but I am baised USMC 1973-1977)

< Message edited by Mogami -- 9/11/2005 8:39:28 PM >


_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to FlashfyreSP)
Post #: 59
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/12/2005 1:45:40 AM   
uhlan

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
This would be my edited ratings.

If feel these are not as guilty of being culturally stereotypical. The ones being used now take away from the games diversity and limit it's scope of game play by making anything other than the favored five (US-USMC/UK-ComW/GER/USSR/JAP) a waste of time.

// LEADER EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{60,65,70,75,70,65,60}, //GERMAN
{60,65,65,65,65,65,60}, //FINNISH
{40,45,45,45,40,40,35}, //ITALIAN
{40,40,45,45,40,40,35}, //RUMANIAN
{40,40,45,45,45,40,35}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,75,75,70,70,65}, //JAPANESE
{50,50,55,55,55,55,60}, //FRENCH
{50,50,55,55,60,65,65}, //BRITISH
{40,40,45,45,45,50,50}, //BELGIUM
{40,40,45,45,45,50,50}, //DUTCH
{45,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //US ARMY
{45,45,50,55,60,65,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,35,35,40,40}, //CHINESE
{40,45,45,45,45,50,50}, //GREEK
{40,40,45,45,45,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,45,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{40,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //CANADA
{40,45,50,55,60,60,60}, //INDIA
{40,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,45,50,50,55,60}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,35,40,45,45}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{45,45,45,45,50,50,50}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{40,40,45,45,45,50,50}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,50,50,50,50,50,50}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{45,50,50,50,50,50,50}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,40,35}, //BULGARIA

// LEADER MORALE
// 1939 to 1945
{65,70,75,75,70,65,55}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,65,60}, //FINNISH
{40,40,40,40,35,30,30}, //ITALIAN
{40,40,45,40,35,30,30}, //RUMANIAN
{40,40,45,45,40,35,30}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,40,40,40,45,50}, //FRENCH
{50,55,60,65,65,65,60}, //BRITISH
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //BELGIUM
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //DUTCH
{55,55,55,55,60,65,60}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{40,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //US ARMY
{45,50,55,60,65,70,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,40,40,40,40}, //CHINESE
{50,55,60,55,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{50,55,60,65,65,65,60}, //CANADA
{45,45,45,50,50,50,50}, //INDIA
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,40,45,45,50,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,40,40,45,50}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{45,45,40,45,50,50,50}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{35,40,40,45,50,55,50}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,45,45,45,45,45,45}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,40,40}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,35,30}, //BULGARIA

// TROOPS EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{60,65,70,75,70,65,60}, //GERMAN
{60,65,70,65,65,65,60}, //FINNISH
{40,40,45,45,40,35,35}, //ITALIAN
{40,40,45,45,40,40,35}, //RUMANIAN
{40,40,40,45,45,40,35}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,65,65,60}, //JAPANESE
{50,50,45,40,40,35,35}, //FRENCH
{50,50,55,60,65,65,60}, //BRITISH
{40,40,40,40,40,45,45}, //BELGIUM
{40,40,40,40,40,45,45}, //DUTCH
{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //POLISH
{40,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //SOVIET
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //US ARMY
{45,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,35,35,40,40}, //CHINESE
{40,40,45,45,45,50,50}, //GREEK
{40,40,40,40,40,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,45,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{50,50,50,55,60,65,60}, //CANADA
{40,45,50,55,55,60,60}, //INDIA
{50,50,50,55,60,65,60}, //ANZAC
{35,40,40,45,45,50,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,35,40,45,45}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{40,40,45,45,45,50,55}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{35,35,40,40,45,50,50}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,45,45,50,45,45,45}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,40,35}, //BULGARIA

// TROOPS MORALE
// 1939 to 1945
{65,70,75,70,65,60,55}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,65,60}, //FINNISH
{40,40,45,40,35,35,30}, //ITALIAN
{40,40,45,40,35,35,35}, //RUMANIAN
{40,40,40,45,45,40,35}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{50,45,40,45,40,35,30}, //FRENCH
{55,55,55,60,60,60,60}, //BRITISH
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //BELGIUM
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //DUTCH
{60,55,45,50,55,60,60}, //POLISH
{40,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //US ARMY
{45,50,55,60,65,70,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,35,35,40,40}, //CHINESE
{60,60,55,50,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,45,45,50,55,60}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{55,55,55,55,60,60,60}, //CANADA
{45,45,45,50,50,55,55}, //INDIA
{55,55,55,60,60,60,60}, //ANZAC
{40,40,40,45,45,50,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,35,40,45,50}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{35,35,40,40,45,45,50}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{40,40,35,35,40,40,45}, //PHILIPINNES
{40,45,45,50,45,45,45}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,35,30}, //BULGARIA

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 60
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