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More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 4:36:27 AM   
Naskra

 

Posts: 325
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		Naval bombardment of Osaka/Kobe, at 63,42 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-46-III Dinah: 2 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N Kate: 1 destroyed
E7K2 Alf: 1 destroyed

20 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AK Hokuan Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Meiryu Maru, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aikoku Maru, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Nanka Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Boston
CA Baltimore, Shell hits 8, on fire
CA Wichita
CA Vincennes
CA Quincy
CA San Francisco
CA Astoria
CA Northampton
BB Alabama
BB Massachusetts
BB Indiana
BB South Dakota
BB North Carolina
BB Mississippi
BB New Mexico
BB Idaho
BB Tennessee
BB California
BB Pennsylvania
BB Arizona
BB Oklahoma
BB Nevada
BB West Virginia
BB Colorado
BB Maryland

Japanese ground losses:
41391 casualties reported
Guns lost 177
Vehicles lost 4

Airbase hits 80
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 364
Port hits 15
Post #: 1
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 4:46:17 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, You didn't kill 41,000 troops. But they did head for the hills. (give them a turn or two to recover)

I don't know what is more extreme the combat results or putting 17 BB into a single TF.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Naskra)
Post #: 2
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 4:56:57 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Holy Snikeys!

"a massive space station (TF) with enough firepower to destroy an entire planet. "

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 3
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 5:14:31 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Gee, aircraft losses were light...

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 4
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 5:15:49 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		its only wrong when it's Japanese...

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(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 5
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 6:48:26 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, It is TF like that, that make you wish you had 6 subs in the hex. (no ASW and all those fat slow ships)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 6
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 7:12:18 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, It is TF like that, that make you wish you had 6 subs in the hex. (no ASW and all those fat slow ships)

Nah, he probably had "Escorts don't bombard" on, and that's why they're not showing up; there were probably 3 squadrons along for the ride hovering off shore...<ping,ping, ping>

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 7
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 8:40:50 AM   
Sharkosaurus rex


Posts: 467
Joined: 10/19/2004
From: under the waves
Status: offline 		You can only have 25 ships in a BB TF and the other 8 slots had CA

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Is Sharkosaurus rex the biggest fish in the sea?
Why don't you come in for a swim?

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 8
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 9:25:23 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Don´t make up such a TF and wonder then about such a result!

(in reply to Sharkosaurus rex)
Post #: 9
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 10:39:39 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharkosaurus rex

You can only have 25 ships in a BB TF and the other 8 slots had CA

Argh...Holmes, you are so perceptive....I'll be jiggered! Home to Baker St. then?
Jolly good!

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to Sharkosaurus rex)
Post #: 10
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 11:00:36 AM   
Marten


Posts: 336
Joined: 12/14/2004
From: Gdansk, Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Don´t make up such a TF and wonder then about such a result!


still, what did they hit, that caused so many daths? military parade?

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 11
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 11:02:10 AM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		Hit the Fuel Depot and started a Firestorm. Let's hear it for houses made of paper.

(in reply to Marten)
Post #: 12
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 3:39:01 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

what did they hit, that caused so many daths?
Once again, "casualties" are not "dead". Only discouraged. Clearly there were a large number of base forces, aviation support, AA, and HQ units based at Osaka.

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Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Marten)
Post #: 13
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 4:38:50 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		Something that must be understood is the games definition of casualty. It's not the same as the dictionary definition, and this causes people to greatly overestimate the effects of shore bombardment.

Everywhere else in the world a casualty means a person was injured or killed.

In the game it means injured, killed or disorganized.

This game has one day turns, if a unit is disorganized for just one day it becomes a casualty. This goes down to the lowest level squad, or individual gun, or sound detector.

Since a military unit can be disorganized by even a few casualties; for example the commanding officer, or a hit on the telephone exchange, or a hit on the microphones of the sound detector, the casualties from shore bombardment appear huge.

But they are not, your not seeing 41,000 dead men scattered around Osaka. Your looking at 41,000 men who were doing their assigned jobs yesterday, and are doing something other than their assigned job today. Some of them are really casualties, but most of them are just on thier way back to work.

(in reply to Naskra)
Post #: 14
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 5:00:42 PM   
Theng

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 12/13/2002
Status: offline 		It's also the typical GIGO phenomenon (Garbage in, Garbage out). You create ahistorical conditions, you will probably get ahistorical results. It's like driving a car with high speed against a tree and then you are suprised when the car breaks. Then call a lawyer to sue the car manufacturer for a defective product...

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Molon Labe!

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 15
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 5:09:08 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		maybe we need another nuke test.

naw....

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(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 16
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 5:44:51 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		It is certainly true that this is another:

"I built the largest shore bombardment force in history, and now i am upset because it hurts the enemy too much" thread.

Chances are good that 20,000 of the Japanese ran away when they saw 17 BBs coming over the horizon, before the shooting even started.

Its certainly true that there was never a force of 17 BBs bombarding. I am not even certain that anyone ever SAW 17 enemy BBs shooting at them, though its just possible that the lead German ships at Jutland might have been able to see that many. They ran away too...

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 17
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 5:55:55 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Wouldn't you run away?

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 18
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 5:57:07 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I think I would have spontaneously sprouted wings and flown away.

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 19
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 6:01:48 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		I'd be disrupted for weeks

When you see a TF like that, its time to develop a strong interest in the isloated highland vallies of Japan.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 20
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 6:05:44 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Or some isolated fishing village on the northern tip of Hokkaido.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 21
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 6:06:14 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Don't forget that we'd all need a change of shorts.

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 22
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 6:08:34 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		But we'd be able to afford them by selling the organic matter they'd be full of, for fertilizing rice fields with.

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 23
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 6:54:01 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		It hit the Saki warehouses, forcing the HQ units to disperse in search of new supplies.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 7:03:49 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		Maybe we should be asking how much the score increased by for the land losses to determine how many people were actually killed in that bombardment instead of relying on "casualties" which, apparently, includes people who ran away.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 25
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 7:13:16 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		One of these "extreme" threads included a test that monitored the troops strength over time, and much of it came back, checking the score is also a good idea.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 26
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 7:22:00 PM   
Burzmali

 

Posts: 312
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Boston
Status: offline 		I'm still surprise that with that level of firepower concentrated on a city, the factories, ship yards and repair yards (and HI, etc.) were left untouched.

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 27
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 7:27:35 PM   
moses

 

Posts: 2252
Joined: 7/7/2002
Status: offline 		I've tried very hard to test the nuclear bombardment theories in my game playing as the allies against JohnIII.

The result:

Through July I've had 2 or 3 really good bombardments where I got 3 or 4 thousand casualties with lots of planes caught on the ground. 5 or 6 other bombardments have gone in with more disappointing results.

4 of my BB's have been sunk and the bulk of my BB's sit repairing in various ports. Despite attempting to cover my BB's approach with CAP and trying to approach during bad weather his bombers have still gotten the better of it.

So my conclusion is that these bombardments are far less than the superweapon that some claim. Its always possible to get lucky and slip in undetected. You may also catch Japan sleeping. But in general it appears that if the Japanese player supports his bases properly then bombardment runs are very risky for the allied player.

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 28
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 11:20:43 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Anyone know offhand the approximate figure for the June 6th/44 Normandy bombardment? No way was it as good as this...especially as the bombardment model is apparently simulating a short fire mission, not a day long affair.



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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to moses)
Post #: 29
RE: More Extreme Results - 9/13/2005 11:22:09 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The D-Day bombardment probably didn't cause a massive number of casualties (though I don't know for sure), but a buttload of disruption.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 30
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