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Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/13/2005 10:57:23 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		Hi guys, does anybody know just WHEN Wellingtons use torps and when they use bombs on naval attack?.

I have seen mixed attacks, so is there a dice roll witch determines what they are carrying?.

It can't be a combat animation/report error, because I have seen them using torps A LOT....

So anybody ?





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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/13/2005 11:11:36 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Hi guys, does anybody know just WHEN Wellingtons use torps and when they use bombs on naval attack?.

I have seen mixed attacks, so is there a dice roll witch determines what they are carrying?.

It can't be a combat animation/report error, because I have seen them using torps A LOT....


Range (Normal/Extended) + dice roll (same as for any other level bomber capable of carrying torpedoes) ...


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 2
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/13/2005 11:14:16 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Hi guys, does anybody know just WHEN Wellingtons use torps and when they use bombs on naval attack?.

I have seen mixed attacks, so is there a dice roll witch determines what they are carrying?.

It can't be a combat animation/report error, because I have seen them using torps A LOT....


Range (Normal/Extended) + dice roll (same as for any other level bomber capable of carrying torpedoes) ...


Leo "Apollo11"


the trick here however is.. that the wellington isn't really capable of carrying a torpedo

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Post #: 3
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/13/2005 11:19:40 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: String

the trick here however is.. that the wellington isn't really capable of carrying a torpedo


Well... in mod's everyting is possible...

BTW, look what US used at Midway - some bombers carried torpedoes for the first and only time...


Leo "Apollo11"

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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

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Post #: 4
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/13/2005 11:46:26 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		Well, the problem is that the wellington is NOT capable of carrying a torpedo. I am playing a stock scenario under 1.602.
I have seen this before, is the wellington the ONLY allied bomber capable of carrying a torp ?? (not counting the beaufort)...

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/13/2005 11:49:03 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Well, it's not like the combat reports have been wrong before (he said with just a touch of sarcasm)...

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/13/2005 11:56:45 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		Run some turns yourself, maybe that will convince you...

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Post #: 7
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 12:09:16 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Sorry man, but in none of the turns in my currently only Allied game (up to August 1943) have I ever seen a Wimpy drop a torp. I can see your combat summary, but I'm just saying that the combat summary has been known to be in error before.

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 12:16:34 AM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		Not in disrespect, but the problem is that you probably have never used the Wellington in the anti shipping role correctly. I am going to try it in my current PBEM (sneaking some Wellingtons into china to hit a convoy at 7 hexes).

I just ran a head to head turn and a AP hit by a "torp" had 35 sys and 35 flood damage, going to run a test in a few seconds to see what well happen to the damage....

Be right back



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Post #: 9
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 12:18:12 AM   
testarossa


Posts: 952
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		Combat report is messed up.

Torpedo carrying planes are bombing and bomb-carrying planes are dropping torpedoes. If you try homogenous strikes you'll see that if the plane carries bombs it can't drop torpedoes.

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Post #: 10
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 12:37:01 AM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		Ok, just ran a turn...
Mogami got hit by 3 torps (wellington launched).... IF the bombers carried 500lbs bombs they would have simply BOUNCHED of the armour....


Next test YAMATO....




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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 12:42:21 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Not in disrespect,



NOT IN DISRESPECT?!?!? How dare you, Sir? I demand satisfaction! Waterpistols at 20 paces, tomorrow at dawn!

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 12:43:12 AM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		ok, just checked the weapons loadout of the wellingtons used...

One squadron had a torp listed as a weapon..... Simply said I WAS BUGGED......

Got the good old "wrong weapons upgrade" bug....

I was wrong YOU where right.....

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In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

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Post #: 13
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 12:43:44 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		41 hexes to Rabaul? Where the hell is she? She ain't gonna make it.

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Post #: 14
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 6:15:43 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		You guys just THINK they were torpedoes..
Some of the Wellingtons were really fitted with some of those "bouncing barrel" bombs (as used by the Dam Busters)..
(Now THAT's what I call skip bombing !!!)

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 6:51:21 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		how do you do a screen shot?

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 7:18:40 AM   
Zebedee


Posts: 535
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

how do you do a screen shot?


I hit the 'print screen' button on my keyboard and then paste it into photoshop or even ms paint.

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Post #: 17
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 7:35:38 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		By the way, how come the Beaufighter can't/never carries a torpedo.

The Beaufighter T.F. Mk. X was used as the replacement for the Beaufort.

See: http://www.aviation-history.com/bristol/beaufite.html

" The Beaufighter T.F.X was the final major production variant and passed through several important modification stages without any change in its Mark number. These included, in particular, the introduction of A.I.Mk.VIII radar in a "thimble" nose--this radar having been found suitable for ASV use--and a large dorsal fin (after a trial installation on a Beaufighter 11, T3032) to give the required directional stability and linked with an increase in elevator area to improve longitudinal stability. Before deliveries of the Beaufighter X could begin, a batch of sixty Beaufighter VIs with Hercules XVI engines and provision for torpedo-carrying was built. These were designated Beaufighter VI (I.T.F.)--interim torpedo fighter--and were converted to Mark Xs when more Hercules XVII engines became available. "

See also: http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/Beaufighter.htm

There is a nice shot of an RAAF MkX (UK built) which operated in NG in 1944 at http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1998/11/stuff_eng_profile_beau2.htm


"Bythe end of 1942 Mk VIC's were being completed with torpedo-carrying gear, this enabling them to replace RAF Coastal Command's Beauforts. The torpedoes - either the British 18-inch (45.7 cm) or the US 22.5-inch (57.2 cm) type - were carried externally, and Mk VIC's so modified were designated Mk VIC (ITF) 'interim torpedo fighters. The first successful torpedo attack by a Beaufighter came on 4 April 1943, when aircraft of 254 Squadron sank two supply ships off Norway.
In conjunction with 'torpedo fighter' development dive brakes were tested and soon introduced as an aid in low-level attacks.

To make the Beaufighter more suited to this low-altitude work a Hercules engine - the Mk XVII - was developed, achieving its peak power of 1,735 hp (1,294-kW) at 500 feet (152 metres). This was installed in the Mk VIC airframe to produce the Beaufighter TF (Torpedo Fighter) Mk X - known as the 'Torbeau'. A strike variant of the Torbeau without the torpedo gear was designated the 'Mk XIC'. "

"The RAAF in the South-West Pacific was initially equipped with Beaufighter Mk IC's. The urgent need for more aircraft to take part in anti-shipping missions led to plans for a Hercules-engined Mk VII to be built by the Australian Department of Aircraft Production, which was then engaged in the manufacture of Beauforts. However, fears that supplies of the Hercules engines could be disrupted led to proposals for the Mk VIII and Mk IX powered by Wright Double Cyclone engines.

Hercules availability was in fact maintained. The Australian Mk 21 powered by the Hercules XVIII entered service in 1944 and had a prominent role in the RAAF's support for the Allied advance into the East Indies. "






< Message edited by Ian R -- 9/14/2005 10:51:04 AM >

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 9:12:07 AM   
castor troy


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Status: offline 		.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 9/14/2005 9:14:43 AM >

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 1:07:00 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		And here: http://www.aviationtrivia.homestead.com/Beaufighter.html

you can hear one!

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 3:57:00 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Well, the problem is that the wellington is NOT capable of carrying a torpedo. I am playing a stock scenario under 1.602.
I have seen this before, is the wellington the ONLY allied bomber capable of carrying a torp ?? (not counting the beaufort)...


Are you asking if any other Allied plane in the game can carry torpedoes, or in the actual war.

A-20's could and did carry torpedoes:
"The USAAC/AAF A-20A had 1,580hp R-2600-11's, and the A-20B was an experiment with remote-control turrents. The A-20C gained the 1,620hp R-2600-23's had 4x 0.3" fixed forward-firing guns in nose, one in the rear-belly position flexible twin 0.3"'s in rear of cockpit. Greater range was achieved with a bigger fuel tank and some aircraft benefitted from 2,000 lb torpedo mounting points. "

The Russians used them in this role. Here's a picture of a model:






EDIT: Caption (i thought was part of the pic) reads:
Douglas A-20G Havoc
51st Mine and Torpedo Air Regiment (MTAP), Soviet Naval Aviation, Baltic Sea Fleet, 1944-1945


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 9/14/2005 3:58:31 PM >

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 4:02:46 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		I forgot to mention B-25s could and did carry and launch torpedoes during the war in the Pacific (not all models, though). I mentioned this in a post way back some time, in a post about the use of "glide torpedoes" - launched from up high, glided some distance (miles), then hit the water (stripping off their attached cage/wing arrangement) then acted like regular torpedoes (which they were - just modified). B-25s launched these in combat (towards the end of the war). I believe B-25s could and did launch regular air-dropped torpedoes, also. They CERTAINLY (and routinely) launched air-dropped anti-sub homing torpedoes.

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 4:34:13 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		And didn't some B26's try torpedo bombing? (at Midway??)

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 4:36:02 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

And didn't some B26's try torpedo bombing? (at Midway??)


Didn't mention that cause someone already did (above) - it was a one-time thing (literally) - and didn't achieve any hits.

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Post #: 24
RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 10:34:08 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Found this page with a pic of a Wellington being arm with a torp


http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/WH2-2Epi-fig-WH2-2Epi-e019b.html

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 11:02:07 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I remember this was hased out during UV days but i need a refresher. when exactly did the Beufighter/Beufort start carrying torpedoes in the Pacific and like the B-25, was it a infrequent thing or regular?

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 11:19:41 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		As I recall (as in, the UV discussions), it the Oz sqdns that ended up carrying them, so they were added.

But I could be wrong. Happens all the time. Just ask my wife.

-F-

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/14/2005 11:35:03 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
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From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

As I recall (as in, the UV discussions), it the Oz sqdns that ended up carrying them, so they were added.

But I could be wrong. Happens all the time. Just ask my wife.

-F-


I'll need her email or phone number

I cant help but think that allowing the Beufort to carry a torp from the get-go seems off, especially in the early logsitcal hell days in Oz.

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/15/2005 12:29:58 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

As I recall (as in, the UV discussions), it the Oz sqdns that ended up carrying them, so they were added.

But I could be wrong. Happens all the time. Just ask my wife.

-F-


I'll need her email or phone number

I cant help but think that allowing the Beufort to carry a torp from the get-go seems off, especially in the early logsitcal hell days in Oz.



The Beaufort was torpedo bomber from its' inception...
http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/Beaufort.htm

This link also gives good details ref the aforementioned Beaufighter and it's use as a torpedo bomber !!!!!!
Same link also gives details of the PBY Catalina using the torpedo "frequently", (THEIR wording)......

< Message edited by m10bob -- 9/15/2005 12:41:03 AM >

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RE: Wellingtons and torpedo's - 9/15/2005 12:34:29 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Yes, i know the Beufort could carry one.....the question is, did it operate with torpedoes regularily in the Pacific and if so, when.



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