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RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP

 
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RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:46:55 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Hey Terminus,

I saw on TV last night that the average person in Denmark eats 29.5 pounds of candy per year. That's more than any other country. Does that sound right?

Oh, sorry. That was OT. I'll try again.

Hey Terminus,

I saw on TV last night that the average person in Denmark has a kill ratio versus candy of 29.5 pounds per year. That's a higher kill ratio than in any other country. Does that sound right?

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 241
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:47:22 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

quote:

Why? It was very clear.


No it wasn't. I'm concerned that if I claim I know what you mean I'll get your usual bullshit about "ducking and weaving" or "distorting" the things you say.



Indeed, it is hard for you to take people out of context or distort what they are saying when they wont play along with you.


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Post #: 242
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:48:59 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If you're waiting for me to leap to the defence of the over-paid, under-worked, knuckle-dragging clotheshorses that constitute the "elite" of European footballery, you'd better not hold your breath, Nik!


Yeah, I thought you'd say that you prissy-foot fanboy.

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Post #: 243
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:49:02 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
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quote:

Indeed, it is hard for you to take people out of context or distort what they are saying when they wont play along with you.


Again. State directly your claim. You say I "duck and weave" yet you are unwilling to dispense with vagueness, dissembling, or diversionary tactics. The question put to you is straightforward and all that is required for you to maintain some credibility is to answer it in a straightforward manner, if you dare.

You have attributed Japanese losses to fatigue induced by an 1100 mile trip. The distance from Rabaul to Lunga is 565 miles. Is it your contention that fatigue killed a substantial number of Japanese pilots after they withdrew from combat at Lunga and were en route returning to Rabaul?

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 9/15/2005 11:51:30 PM >

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 244
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:50:31 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl


Again. State directly your claim.


I made no claim. I reitterated what Richard Frank concluded long ago. You were the one making a claim involving stressed out US pilots who couldn't get their winks.


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Post #: 245
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:50:32 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Hey Terminus,

I saw on TV last night that the average person in Denmark eats 29.5 pounds of candy per year. That's more than any other country. Does that sound right?

Oh, sorry. That was OT. I'll try again.

Hey Terminus,

I saw on TV last night that the average person in Denmark has a kill ratio versus candy of 29.5 pounds per year. That's a higher kill ratio than in any other country. Does that sound right?


What TV show was that?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 246
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:52:41 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Something on the History Channel - maybe Modern Marvels - they did a thing on the manufacture of various snack foods and candies.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 247
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:52:48 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If you're waiting for me to leap to the defence of the over-paid, under-worked, knuckle-dragging clotheshorses that constitute the "elite" of European footballery, you'd better not hold your breath, Nik!


Yeah, I thought you'd say that you prissy-foot fanboy.


In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 248
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:53:35 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!


say it fast three times. pfff


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Post #: 249
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:54:10 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
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quote:

I made no claim. I reitterated what Richard Frank concluded long ago. You were the one making a claim involving stressed out US pilots who couldn't get their winks.


Again, I note that the question has been put to you directly, now, three times. And yet you more than anyone else seem unwilling to state clearly what you mean. Who is the one here that "ducks and weaves?" Who is the one here who evades questions?

You have accused me several times of distorting your claims. So if you have any honor you will state your claims plainly so that you may be held accountable for them, rather than leaving yourself "evasion room" to suggest that your position has been distorted.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 250
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:54:55 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Something on the History Channel - maybe Modern Marvels - they did a thing on the manufacture of various snack foods and candies.


Oh dear, oh dear, relying on the History Channel for our statistics, are we? Tsk, tsk...

Honestly, I have no idea. We eat too much of everything that's bad for us, but what "developed" country doesn't?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 251
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/15/2005 11:55:40 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!


say it fast three times. pfff



In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!

That fast enough?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 252
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:03:01 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl


Again, I note that the question has been put to you directly, now, three times. And yet you more than anyone else seem unwilling to state clearly what you mean. Who is the one here that "ducks and weaves?" Who is the one here who evades questions?


I'm not evading the question. I see no reason to restate what has already been made very clearly. I'm sorry it frustrates you that i wont play along with your game. I know how much you love to try to pick apart people's text.

quote:


You have accused me several times of distorting your claims. So if you have any honor you will state your claims plainly so that you may be held accountable for them


Hmm you wish me to be held accountable, yet you feel no need to be held accountable for the stuff you sprout. You also appear to not feel the need to be held accountable when you lie through your teeth, such as when you stated that I was claiming that the carrier F4F's received a drubbing. I'm still waiting for you to quote the text in this thread where i wrote that.



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Post #: 253
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:03:18 AM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

LoL....lets see you try it. You will have to fly near daily missions of a total length of 1000+ miles for hours on end


quote:

lol....you must be suffering from Malaria to have copped that interpretation out of my text.


quote:

Why? It was very clear.


quote:

Indeed, it is hard for you to take people out of context or distort what they are saying when they wont play along with you.


quote:

I'm not evading the question. I see no reason to restate what has already been made very clearly.


Hmm. Shall we call this the "Nikademus Weave?"

It seems that Sir Robin bravely ran away. Apt avatar though.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 9/16/2005 12:08:32 AM >

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 254
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:03:36 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!


say it fast three times. pfff



In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!

That fast enough?



Nope! again!!


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Post #: 255
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:05:48 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!


_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 256
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:06:34 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Very good....

Now go back to your 29.4 pounds of candy

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Post #: 257
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:08:01 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Said the representative of the FATTEST country on the planet!

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 258
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:08:31 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Very good....

Now go back to your 29.4 pounds of candy


Actually, quite excellent considering he was actually consuming the 29.4 pounds of candy when he said that!!!

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 259
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:11:48 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Yeah well, I've got a big mouth.

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Post #: 260
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 12:42:34 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
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quote:

You have attributed Japanese losses to fatigue induced by an 1100 mile trip. The distance from Rabaul to Lunga is 565 miles. Is it your contention that fatigue killed a substantial number of Japanese pilots after they withdrew from combat at Lunga and were en route returning to Rabaul?



You miss quoted him again...

He said round trip.

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Post #: 261
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 1:53:24 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Yeah well, I've got a big mouth.


Yup and it's full of $%$&*$


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Post #: 262
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 1:55:10 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		P.S. European footballers are far more talented than their American counterparts

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Post #: 263
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 1:55:35 AM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		@treespider

quote:

You miss quoted him again...
He said round trip.


That is incorrect. I did not misquote him. His claim is that fatigue from an 1100 mile trip caused increased losses. The distance from Rabaul to Lunga is 565 miles. It logically follows (to anyone except those who try to avoid the point) that a pilot flying from Rabaul to Lunga, and then engaging in combat, has only flown 565 miles. 565 miles is not a "round trip." It's a "half trip." That pilot has logged only about 3 hours of flight time, and this after a fine night's rest, prior to combat. Of that 3 hours, about 2.5 hours of it is routine flying with no threat of contact prior to the engagement, and 2.5 hours of routine flying (if the aircraft has not suffered substantial damage) after the combat.

If one wishes to claim that fatigue induced by more than 565 miles worth of flight time affected Zero losses on a day to day basis, then one has to assume that substantial numbers of pilots were lost after breaking off combat at Lunga and on the way home to Rabaul.

The thing is, that is a logical (it would seem straightforward) implication of what Nickledimus writes. But as he has made pretense of being a victim of "distortions" of his claim, it seems reasonable to ask him or anyone else who holds that pov to state directly how that 2.5 hours of flying prior to combat equates with higher losses concomitant with 5 hours of flying.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 9/16/2005 1:58:20 AM >

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 264
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 3:01:44 AM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		mdiehl - you've been claiming a 1.2 zero to 1 f4f loss rate for CV 42 battles and someone posted a batttle by battle tally that does not support that claim. Off the top of my head those numbers look right and I did not see you dispute them - care to comment on why?

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 265
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 4:09:47 AM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		Several years back I read that the Midway battle was wargamed by the Japanese staff and 4 CV were sunk in the course of the game. The referee running the game ruled that this was not possable and ruled 1 CV was sunk, 1 CV was damaged and the other 2 were untouched. Boy it's funny, this thread goes WAY back

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Post #: 266
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 4:21:46 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

His claim is that fatigue from an 1100 mile trip caused increased losses



You misquoted him again he did not say that!. He said an 1100 mile round trip and you keep quoting him as say an 1100 mile trip. The last time I checked 565 plus 565 = 1130 miles pretty close to 1100.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 267
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 4:23:11 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

If one wishes to claim that fatigue induced by more than 565 miles worth of flight time affected Zero losses on a day to day basis, then one has to assume that substantial numbers of pilots were lost after breaking off combat at Lunga and on the way home to Rabaul.


But you keep forgetting that these Zero also had to fly 565 miles back to base...

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 268
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 4:32:40 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Every time something like this comes up, I Google to try to find an image of two guys p1ssing on each others' boots, but so far, no joy.

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Post #: 269
RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP - 9/16/2005 4:49:25 AM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Every time something like this comes up, I Google to try to find an image of two guys p1ssing on each others' boots, but so far, no joy.

Oohhhh that wasa bad...but perhaps not without truth!

that's why I would rather keep it friendly...

B

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Post #: 270
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