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Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/17/2005 2:24:06 AM   
Gilligan

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 6/19/2002
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Heya guys,

Once again, my opponent DWBradley and I are running into the pilot replacement bug. Our game is currently at 11/'44 using the Tanaka modified campaign scenerio, and updated to version 1.60.

It seems we have run out of slots in the game for new pilots, and as such we can't add pilots to our units. With the help of MichaelM, who was able to clean up the database or something along those lines, we were able to free up some room, but this fix only lasted a short time.

My question, which I hope can be addressed by Matrix, is what can we do about this, and is this a result of our using the Tanaka scenerio as opposed to the stock version? I'd like to start a new game with someone, but not if I know this is going to happen again.

Thanks...hope Matrix is looking into this,

Gilligan

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Post #: 1
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/17/2005 3:44:35 AM   
dwbradley

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Gilligan and I have been discussing various potential solutions to this problem. Most revolve around some voluntary sacrifice of pilots and/or squadrons currently in the game to free up enough pilots to continue. Even if MichaelM can perform the same magic as last time it seems that this would last maybe not as long as the previous fix since Gilligan reports many allied formations will be arriving soon. So we may be looking at some really draconian cuts in our exisitng inventory in order to finish the game.

I have had one idea which, although it seems a bit crazy, might offer a way out. If we could create a new game with all units in the game as they are now then we could make all pilot kill counts zero and the "greatest pilot history table" (I forget the exact title) would be empty. Now in theory we could write down the status of all units and put that into a blank OOB, create a scenario and away we go. We might also eliminate enough "useless" units to make sure we stayed under the 30K? limit. I don't really know how much work this might be but I suspect perhaps maybe weeks or months. The "magic bullet" that could reuce this work would be a utility that would take a current game file and create an OOB. I don't think this exists. Is it possible? How difficult would it be to create? Is there any hope it might someday be created?

I am casting about a bit here but for Gilligan and I to have come this far and not see the end will be a big disappointment.

(in reply to Gilligan)
Post #: 2
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/24/2005 7:47:50 PM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline 		Hey guys,

A number of people are listing AAR's or other information indicating that their games have reached late war. Is anyone else experiencing the issue of flat out running out of pilot slots. If dead pilots still keep a slot, then I'd bet others have run into this or is it specific to Tanka's Sc ?

(in reply to dwbradley)
Post #: 3
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 1:03:53 PM   
Gilligan

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 6/19/2002
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		No idea...I haven't heard of anyone else talking about this, and our posts seem to go unnoticed by Matrix, so beats me.

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Post #: 4
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 5:09:36 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		What modifications did Tanaka make to the scenario?

(in reply to Gilligan)
Post #: 5
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 7:16:14 PM   
Belphegor


Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

Hey guys,

A number of people are listing AAR's or other information indicating that their games have reached late war. Is anyone else experiencing the issue of flat out running out of pilot slots. If dead pilots still keep a slot, then I'd bet others have run into this or is it specific to Tanka's Sc ?


Not in my late game.... 03/44 but maybe not late enough?

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 6
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 10:11:16 PM   
Gilligan

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 6/19/2002
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Ours began sometime soon after that I believe, maybe around 6/44? Possibly a little later even, but as far as changes to the stock go, I don't believe Tanaka is responsible for the problem. He just adjusted some upgrade paths I believe...

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(in reply to Belphegor)
Post #: 7
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 10:32:39 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		I've reached mid-July 1944 and, as the American player against the AI, I've seen a DRAMATIC decrease in my army pilot pool in just 7 turns from 1492 pilot replacements to only 148.

I received 12 B-29 squadrons and 3 B-24 squadrons with planes but no pilots and they don't seem to be filling up even though I'm leaking pilot replacements dramatically.

I'm rather upset and pissed since I've been playing this game since February and to get this far and suddenly have the game screw me over is really frustrating.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Gilligan)
Post #: 8
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 11:05:32 PM   
Gilligan

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 6/19/2002
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Thats understandable..I'd be upset too...wait, I am...my opponent and I have just conducted ops over Luzon that consisted of me flying over 400 transports on a supply run to an base with no cap so he could intercept and knock em silly, and he did the same to me plus fly some kamikazi over ships I covered with CAP ..all so we could kill off some units and get some pilot replacements. Not exactly something we should have to do just to get replacements, but we don't want to abandon the game after nearly a year in.

I really would like to see some response from Matrix. We've posted twice about this in the support forum, without response.

< Message edited by Gilligan -- 9/25/2005 11:07:09 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 11:13:39 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		But I'm not conducting any flight operations worth speaking ... the MOST losses I have had in 10 turns has been 9 operational losses yet I've seen my Army pilot replacement pool drop from 1492 down to 6.

This game takes up so much time that right now it's just not worth what I paid for it and not worth putting any more time into it if it's just going to screw me over like it is.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Gilligan)
Post #: 10
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 11:20:19 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilligan

...my opponent and I have just conducted ops over Luzon that consisted of me flying over 400 transports on a supply run to an base with no cap so he could intercept and knock em silly



Very resourcefull. Would you also be able to disband units to keep groups at operational levels?

This bug is a show stopper. How many pilots did it take to hit the wall?

(in reply to Gilligan)
Post #: 11
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 11:26:46 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		I have this problem in three threads and keep bumping it up but NOBODY other than you seems to even really care.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Gilligan)
Post #: 12
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 11:36:59 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		This does not seem to be universal. In the AARs Dude vs Zeta they are well into '45 with out a mention of this. I wonder how your losses and active aircraft compare.

(in reply to Gilligan)
Post #: 13
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/25/2005 11:40:05 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		What type of losses?

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 14
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 12:04:42 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

I wonder how your losses and active aircraft compare.


I'd bet it is a problem if only losses are high. If they didn't keep the dead guys around for the statistics, this wouldn't be a problem.

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Fear the kitten!

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 15
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 12:49:35 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		There is an absolute limit of 30,000 on the number of pilots. This is probably causing the problems.

Try emailing support@matrixgames.com for a response. The staff haven't visited this forum in ages.

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 16
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 12:56:17 AM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		I've emailed and PMed Frag, Mogami, Joel Billings, Kid, Erik Rutins and Marc Schwanebeck.

It should be easy to write a stand-alone utility players could run that would clear out the dead pilots from the pilot slots.

This is a problem that every person who plays this game could run up against - especially if you've had a game where you've taken and inflicted heavy air losses.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 17
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 1:02:47 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		OK well good luck.

It's not about how easy it is to fix it - it's taking the decision to do so. Right now WitP seems to be right at the bottom of the priority list.

(in reply to dereck)
Post #: 18
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 1:07:00 AM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

OK well good luck.

It's not about how easy it is to fix it - it's taking the decision to do so. Right now WitP seems to be right at the bottom of the priority list.



There's going to be a lot of games coming to a scratching halt in mid-1944 and later when neither side can get replacement pilots for their planes. I have 16 B-29 squadrons sitting on the ground now and no ability to fly them and any plane/pilot loss I get now is gone forever which is bogus.

People should realize this could affect them eventually too and reconsider investing as much time as this game takes to play when all the time invested could be for nothing.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 19
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 11:29:45 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


People should realize this could affect them eventually too and reconsider investing as much time as this game takes to play when all the time invested could be for nothing.


Did you have fun with it up to this point? If the answer is "yes" then I wouldnt say it was "for nothing". Would it piss me off? Sure it would.

(in reply to dereck)
Post #: 20
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 12:00:55 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Problem I see is no one SEEMS to be reviewing this board. Has Matrix and 2/3 given up on WitP?

(in reply to Gilligan)
Post #: 21
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 3:55:07 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		It almost seems WitP is at the stage where the any fixes create more problems than they solve. Many of the bugs that remain have resisted efforts to correct and introduced more problems.

Cruft has a good option, maybe there is a user out there with the skill to write such a tool.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 22
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 4:05:17 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DFalcon

It almost seems WitP is at the stage where the any fixes create more problems than they solve. Many of the bugs that remain have resisted efforts to correct and introduced more problems.

Cruft has a good option, maybe there is a user out there with the skill to write such a tool.


If other have this same problem take the route I did and PM Frag, Mogami, Joel Billings, Erik Rutins and Marc Schwanebeck. I got a reply from Joel Billings:

quote:

I've sent your note onto the programmers. I'll let you know what I find out.

Joel


But the more noise people make about this the more chance there MAY be of getting a utility we can run to clear out our pilots. I don't think there's need for a patch if a simple standalone utility can be made available that we can run to clear the unneeded data in our games out. Definitely may be easier to write than a whole new patch.


_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 23
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 4:12:16 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


People should realize this could affect them eventually too and reconsider investing as much time as this game takes to play when all the time invested could be for nothing.


Did you have fun with it up to this point? If the answer is "yes" then I wouldnt say it was "for nothing". Would it piss me off? Sure it would.


It has been for nothing when I can no longer really play anymore without pilots. I'm playing the allies and I just captured Saipan so I could have airbases to base my B-29s at so I could start a strategic air campaign against Japan but without pilots I have no way to fly my bombers. Eventually I will have no way to fly ANY planes as even my navy pilot replacesments have dropped down to only 2.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 24
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 4:30:05 PM   
WiTP_Dude


Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DFalcon

This does not seem to be universal. In the AARs Dude vs Zeta they are well into '45 with out a mention of this. I wonder how your losses and active aircraft compare.


There is no mention in the AAR but I started a support thread in August about it:

http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp%3Fm%3D928454

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________________________________________
I feal so dirty when I sink convoys with 4E bombers, makes porn feal wholsome. - Brady, Founding Member of the Japanese Fanboy Club

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 25
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/26/2005 7:11:58 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		Everybody ... I received this PM from Joel Billings concerning this bug and he requested a save file. I'm going to reply back to Joel to see if they still want MY save file since I'm at v1.3 but you others who are experiencing this and running the current version PLEASE send your save files to the email address listed in this quoted message from Joel?

quote:

Can you send a save to 2by3@2by3games.com. Gary says only pilots of note should be saved, so this would seem to be a bug.



_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)
Post #: 26
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 9/27/2005 1:39:09 AM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		bump

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to dereck)
Post #: 27
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 11/9/2005 5:20:31 AM   
Belphegor


Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		OK, reached July '44 hit 30, 000 or close to it and both Allied and IJN pilots have stopped. Do you still need saves? I don't know if we have history, but it has only been going on for a few turns.

(in reply to dereck)
Post #: 28
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 11/9/2005 8:48:48 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		No thanks.
I think all the problems to do with getting 30K pilots seem to have been found.
The changes MikeW has done should attempt to re-use every spare pilot available. Having said that there may come a time when the 30K limit might be reached. The game will still play but some groups may not be able to fill out.

This is a design limit and modders will just need to be aware of it when designing mods. No use having scenario get 65K planes, yet only half can be manned.

Michael
quote:

ORIGINAL: Belphegor

OK, reached July '44 hit 30, 000 or close to it and both Allied and IJN pilots have stopped. Do you still need saves? I don't know if we have history, but it has only been going on for a few turns.


(in reply to Belphegor)
Post #: 29
RE: Pilot replacement bug problem - 11/9/2005 3:50:41 PM   
Belphegor


Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

No thanks.
I think all the problems to do with getting 30K pilots seem to have been found.
The changes MikeW has done should attempt to re-use every spare pilot available. Having said that there may come a time when the 30K limit might be reached. The game will still play but some groups may not be able to fill out.

This is a design limit and modders will just need to be aware of it when designing mods. No use having scenario get 65K planes, yet only half can be manned.



Ok, thanks

Do I understand correctly that if we reach 30k aircraft destroyed this still will happen? The design limit part? Since we are in a stock scenario should this scenario be altered to reflect this reality? Or have I misunderstood..

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 30
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