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15+ ship air combat tf and AAA

 
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15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/22/2005 6:59:41 PM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline 		I know if you go over 15 ships the effectiveness of their AAA goes down. But is it only the excess ship that are less effective? Is it the ships on top of the list [CA's] or ships at the bottem [DD's]? Or do they all lose a little bit of of their AA or ASW value?

What exactly are the penalties for going ove 15 ships?

Thanks

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/22/2005 7:10:32 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I read in the forum that anything over 15 ships has its AA reduced. Now, what determines ships 1-15 vs. 16+, I haven't a clue.....

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/22/2005 8:00:24 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

What exactly are the penalties for going ove 15 ships?


We'll probably never know. It is probably--probably--safe to say that adding one more ship to a 15-ship TF will not result in it having less AA firepower. There was a thread a month or two back, I think the concensus was that more ships=more AA. You just get diminishing returns beyond 15.

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/22/2005 8:53:40 PM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline 		Thanks. You'd think you would get less out of the DD's. They would be out on the perimeter or on picket duty and maybe not even involved in a air attack coming from the other side of the formation. But the capital ships in the nucleus of the tf would be blasting away with all they could bring to bear.

I'm just looking athow the game handles the ground combat casualties where the top unit takes the brunt even tho it's a rear with the gear. I worry it might have a arbitary rule about where a ship falls in a list. Maybe I should experiment.

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/22/2005 8:55:13 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Now's when we need a Harpoon-style formation editor...

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/22/2005 10:52:14 PM   
Hartley


Posts: 255
Joined: 6/2/2003
Status: offline 		I still stack BBs,CAs, DDs - anything to fill multiple 25-ship TFs.


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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 12:29:55 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

You'd think you would get less out of the DD's. They would be out on the perimeter or on picket duty and maybe not even involved in a air attack coming from the other side of the formation.


Except that Japanese Kamikazes were especially hard on DDs. IIRC, more DDs were hit than all other ships combined.

Chez

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 12:32:49 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Yeah... There was one particular DD radar picket off Okinawa that really got plastered by something like 8 or 10 Kamikaze hits without actually sinking. I forget the name...

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 12:38:00 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

You'd think you would get less out of the DD's. They would be out on the perimeter or on picket duty and maybe not even involved in a air attack coming from the other side of the formation.


Except that Japanese Kamikazes were especially hard on DDs. IIRC, more DDs were hit than all other ships combined.

Chez

That's true when looking at it from a totality; the little guys were the hardest hit. Delving deeper though, I think that a lot of those hits were on the radar picket stations; each were manned by 2-3 DD/DE's and sometimes a support LCM. A lot of kamikaze's just went after the first thing they spotted....them. A kami going after a carrier group would fixate on the carrier(s) and probably only hit small fry if he was hit so badly that he couldn't make the middle of the formation.

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 12:43:33 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline 		I agree. Yours is a better depiction than mine was.

Chez

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Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 12:48:42 AM   
Bradley7735


Posts: 2073
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		I believe it was the USS Aaron Ward II. Unfortunately, this great ship is not in WITP. It was named after another destroyer, so it's left out.

And, I think it was hit by 12 kamikaze's. I saw a picture of it. It's deck was only about 3 feet above water.

edit: Nope it wasn't the Aaron Ward II. She was a DM and survived the war. (still not in WITP, though)

< Message edited by Bradley7735 -- 9/23/2005 12:51:27 AM >

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 12:53:59 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Not according to navsource.org. The first destroyer with that name was DD-132, a Wickes class, which was part of the Destroyers-for-Bases deal. The second one, DD-483 (Gleaves class) was sunk by Japanese aircraft off Guadalcanal on 4/7/43.

EDIT: It was Aaron Ward III, laid down as DD-773 (Sumner class) and completed as DM-34.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 9/23/2005 12:59:12 AM >

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 12:57:57 AM   
Bradley7735


Posts: 2073
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		It might have been the USS Laffey II. She was disabled by 5 kami's and 4 bombs. (the site I looked at didn't have much more info). That sounds about right. I think the number I was thinking of was the total number of planes that attacked (some got shot down without hitting her). (again, a ship not represented in WITP)

< Message edited by Bradley7735 -- 9/23/2005 12:58:17 AM >

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 12:59:40 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Check my edited post.

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 1:05:22 AM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Yeah... There was one particular DD radar picket off Okinawa that really got plastered by something like 8 or 10 Kamikaze hits without actually sinking. I forget the name...


USS Laffey [DD 724] "The Ship that wouldn't Die". It's at Patriots Point in Charlestown, SC with the Yorktown [Essex class]. I've been there and it's a good book.

I like this forum but radar picket duty is different than screening for a CV. Please don't lock on one little point in my post. If you have some relivant game info please share

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/23/2005 2:48:49 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		As confirmed by Mods, AA effectivenes in over 15 ship TFs is *not* reduced. 25 ships have more AA than 15 ships (if similar composition). What rule means is that over 15 ships addition in effectiveness is reduced, "diminishing return of investment". You still get better AA but more ships you add over 15, less they contribute to overall valua. They still do add.

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RE: 15+ ship air combat tf and AAA - 9/24/2005 12:42:53 AM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline 		So these is no artifical stacking limit. But knowing GG's games I bet the code handles this in a fair way.

Thank you for clearing that you Sardaukar. You should make Supreme Bashar someday, Hail Shaddam. The spice must flow.

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