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RE: 3 years and nothing changed

 
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RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/17/2005 3:49:14 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		8.3 contained the last "official" changes.

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Post #: 91
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/17/2005 3:54:34 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		I thought Mike Amos (warhorse) did extensive work on the axis minors OOBS?




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Post #: 92
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/17/2005 4:02:43 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Warhorse did make contributions indeed and they were good. He also contributed greatly to the icons.

I worked with Gavris Narcis on the Romanian OOB and made significant changes - perhaps not as many as we might have made but there are improvements that can still do with further improving, no doubt. Certainly much has been done there in the past three years. Unfortunately regardless of effort applied to OOB updates, if the national ratings are off, it's all for nought.

(in reply to Alby)
Post #: 93
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/17/2005 4:05:55 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		AndrewC,

Just saw your apology (slipped in before my post above). Lets leave the thread here and learn from it, no? Can't we all just get along? Love your fellow wargamer, but don't love your fellow wargamer.



Goblin

< Message edited by Goblin -- 9/17/2005 4:10:43 AM >

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Post #: 94
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/17/2005 4:13:54 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		It shouldn't be difficult to change the country flag. It's only an icon. All we need is the appropriate file to replace the existing icon. It was done for Canada.

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Post #: 95
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/17/2005 4:28:17 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Swamprat

Examples - If Brits are given experience levels that reflect empire experience, then in 1940 battles they will do quite well against Germans, leaving one to think 'hang on, how come they didn't do so well in real life'.


I think the British troops did quite well against the Germans in 1940 tactically - which is the world we live in in SPWAW. Their performance strategically, especially in Norway, was a lot less to be desired. This is where the broad brush approach to these national ratings does not work. If you give the Nation good troop experience levels they will perform well in combat. Provide poor leadership values and they will not be easily rallied and artillery support will be hard to come by. But apply some bland, across-the-board- generic 40 rating to any nation and you effectively remove that nation from the game.

Attention should be paid to the ratings. This has never been discussed openly AFAIR and no concensus arrived at.

(in reply to Swamprat)
Post #: 96
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/17/2005 6:23:14 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Here's an issue that needs addressed!

The scroll speed in the plotting windows (arty, para, specops, etc) is not controlled by the scroll speed setting in preferences. On faster machines, it is almost impossible to plot arty. Can Mike fix this so that the scroll speed affects all menus?



Goblin

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Post #: 97
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/18/2005 3:48:49 AM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		Yeah yeah yeah. I brought this up a couple years ago. Would love to see it. Arty can be plotted ok by clicking on the little map but slower scrolling would be great.

(in reply to Goblin)
Post #: 98
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/19/2005 4:28:32 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		God bless the Finns!

"So many Russians, so few bullets."

The experiance ratings ETC, are messed up at best. 1945 US Army tank crews with a rating of less than 60? WTF is that? This puts their ROF in to the same range as a Tiger II or even some 150mm weapons.

Rumanian troops were poorly lead but very brave and fought well from everything I have read.

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KED

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Post #: 99
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/19/2005 4:47:24 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay

God bless the Finns!

"So many Russians, so few bullets."

The experiance ratings ETC, are messed up at best. 1945 US Army tank crews with a rating of less than 60? WTF is that? This puts their ROF in to the same range as a Tiger II or even some 150mm weapons.

Rumanian troops were poorly lead but very brave and fought well from everything I have read.

I am experiencing this in a pbem game
My US tanks get 2 shots at best.....


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Post #: 100
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 10:10:53 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
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quote:

Am I the only one who finds this entire thread hilarious?


LOL Nope, I went through it also laughing my arse off at the lil romaniac guy screaming about how his poor pitiful fighting ancestors were so screwed by a mere "game"!! A GAME haha, now I could understand it if it were in a book or something, but, a GAME? Cmon.

Now, when I used to play HOI, Rumania was one of the minors I liked to play. They suked of course and the Russians overran them easily, but, taking out Poland and capturing WARSAW for our country was the greatest fun in playing them, I screwed the Germans and Russians royally by taking Warsaw and annexing Poland before they could thus screwing over the non-aggression pact and the divying up of Poland between them.

I mean lets face it minors are minors and insignificant in the grand scale of anything anyway, so really makes no difference to me if they have low morale or high morale they still going to get stomped on eventually.

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Post #: 101
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 5:06:44 PM   
AndrewC

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		nt

< Message edited by AndrewC -- 9/28/2005 9:17:04 AM >

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Post #: 102
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 5:18:05 PM   
cadmus

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: Columbia, MD
Status: offline 		Andrew ... don't overreact to the "opinions" of one person. In the course of this thread you got some reasoned, reasonable and sympathetic reactions. Remember that and don't despair at the "ravin's" of one person.

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Post #: 103
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 7:16:42 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Five little monkeys, jumping on the bed,
One fell off and bumped his head,
Mama called the doctor and the doctor said:
"NO MORE MONKEYS JUMPING ON THE BED!"



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Wild Bill Wilder
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(in reply to cadmus)
Post #: 104
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 7:17:30 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Pigs and monkeys...my, how far we've wandered from home. I was at a gaming site, now I'm in the zoo!

WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 105
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 9:08:25 PM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline 		Andrew, you're not in a position to complain about pig-ignorance. Your attitude thus far has been hardly sparkling. More sparking in fact. And as for disregarding everything you've said, well if you had said it with less venom and more reason, it would have been better regarded. You're lucky that more people didn't disregard what you said. And you've had better replies than you deserve. On other forums you would have been slagged off, deleted or thrown off.

The initial point that you made is interesting and relevant, but your deire to leap down people's throats isn't. You claim nobody's regarding your view, but you aren't regarding anyone else's. And before you say it, yes I have read all contributions on this thread, and thought about some too, including yours.

You seem to feel you inhabit a superior moral platform, and that somehow we (or the Steel Panthers designers) owe you something. Well, this isn't like ringing up the complaints department of some company. None of us works here or gets paid here (somebody will correct me on this now ), and SPWAW, if I'm not mistaken, is pretty much a volunteer effort, done by volunteers who, although well meaning, don't actually owe you, or your country, anything in particular. And no, they don't owe me anything either.

More knowledge of British and American details in SPWAW? Well what a surprise, most of the designers are English speaking. A conspiracy against Eastern Europe? No. It's just that most of the really interesting historical stuff about Eastern europe is written in Eastern European languages. And then it was probably purged by the communists anyway. Want more knowledge of Romania in the game? Join the team. Contribute long hours to the game for little or no reward, like they do.

But if you're not going to see that the world doesn't owe you something personal, then jump into that barrel you describe and spank your monkey. You could make it a habit.

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Post #: 106
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 9:27:13 PM   
AndrewC

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 9/5/2005
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< Message edited by AndrewC -- 9/28/2005 9:17:18 AM >

(in reply to Swamprat)
Post #: 107
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 9:35:10 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The OOB editor, primarily.

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Post #: 108
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 9:37:57 PM   
AndrewC

 

Posts: 19
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< Message edited by AndrewC -- 9/28/2005 9:17:27 AM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 109
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/24/2005 9:52:41 PM   
AndrewC

 

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< Message edited by AndrewC -- 9/28/2005 9:17:38 AM >

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Post #: 110
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/25/2005 7:07:57 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Swamprat, where in the world did you come from? . Man you need to get out of that swamp more often. Nothing left to be said. Let me go find my monkey!

WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 111
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/25/2005 7:13:01 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Andrew, before you leave, I'd love to help you. I'm not much at editing the game, but I know some folks who might be able to help you. If you wish, write me. I saw your apology and I appreciate that.

I recognize the zeal you feel about that which is personal. Its understnadable. We've all just gotten a little out of hand with this conversation. Just when it seemed to be smoothing out, another emotional hurricane sent it topsy turvy!.

My last word. The game will not please everyone. I think you saw my earlier comment agreeing in part with your premise, if not your presentation of it. I'm sorry you feel that your country has been misrepresented. I'm sure a few other folks feel that way about their country too.

I only wish you the best and if I can be of any help on a personal level, drop me a line.

Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 112
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/25/2005 2:16:25 PM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline
quote:

Swamprat, where in the world did you come from? . Man you need to get out of that swamp more often. Nothing left to be said. Let me go find my monkey!


It's good to get out. Aaah, the blue skies, the trees. I've said what I felt needed to be said now, so I'll crawl back in. Don't let me keep you from your furry friend Bill.

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Post #: 113
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/26/2005 1:47:27 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Swamprat, where in the world did you come from? . Man you need to get out of that swamp more often. Nothing left to be said. Let me go find my monkey!

WB


Bill, was that an obscure Beatles reference? "Everybody's Got Something to Hide ('Cept for Me and My Monkey)", from the "White Album". Whooa -- The Colonel is more hip than anyone ever knew.


< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 9/26/2005 1:48:33 AM >

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Post #: 114
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/26/2005 6:51:07 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Those were my days, Gunny. I was a strange admixture of ardent patriot who supported a poorly executed war (sound familiar?) and a corrupt president, yet still with leanings toward the so-called freedom of the "long hairs."

Strange, the folks who most upbraided the "long hair hippies" with beards, hair on their shoulders, and ragged jeans now think that is the style.

So yeah, my friend, I had a little "wild" in me. Got to live up to my name!

WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 115
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/26/2005 6:52:23 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		No reply to me personally from Andrew. Oh well, I tried.

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 116
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/26/2005 7:19:04 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewC

moderators,

It would be a good idea to lock or delete this thread.


What the heck for? This is arguably the best thread eva!

We have had everything you could want in a discussion forum like this: patriotism; righteous indignation; courage; ugliness; death (mine); gratuitous monkey references; & reconciliation. This, my friends, is what people have come to expect from video game discussion threads. We must be mindful of our duty to the public. It would be the utmost of folly to delete this shining example of humanity condensed into digital format.


Amen & good night

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Post #: 117
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/26/2005 8:12:51 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1247
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From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

No reply to me personally from Andrew. Oh well, I tried.

He's move his "topic" to the Depot.

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Post #: 118
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/26/2005 10:12:28 PM   
AndrewC

 

Posts: 19
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< Message edited by AndrewC -- 9/28/2005 9:17:53 AM >

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 119
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/27/2005 12:09:54 AM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline 		I think Andrew that you need to begin with your original point of contention, which is the experience ratings. 30-40 is rather low.

Switch off the historic ratings in the preferences screen and change the experience ratings that you think most appropriate according to your knowledge and research of the Romanian army. Pick a particular battle or incident from the war that you've researched and know well and play test the battle using the new ratings. Do the results reflect what actually happened in that battle? Once you've got the experience levels about right, post the results for others to try.

I don't know how to alter the morale and officer ratings separate from experience, so others may be able to advise better on that. I've also never attempted an OOB change.

Starting the OOB all over from scratch seems a big job. Alter a few things at a time, playtesting the changes as you go along, looking for any knock-on effects. When you've finally got an OOB file that you feel more accurately affects the Romanians in WWII, post the results on the Depot, letting others download the new file to try out, along with your recommendations for experience levels and tactical methods. See if you get any feedback. If enough people prefer the new OOB it could well be incorporated into future upgrades of the game. Become the resident expert on the Romanian army and people will be coming to you for advice.

It'll be a long process, but I imagine it will also be a labour of love for you. The more expert contributions are made, the better the game will be.

Hope this helps. Good Luck.

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Post #: 120
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