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How do you play? - 9/25/2005 8:53:36 AM

Tigleth Pilisar

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

This is the kind of thread you hate to see - but maybe you'll have mercy on me.

I just don't have the time/patience it seems to go through the learning curve to figure out how to play. Maybe I've been playing too many of those RTS games which are 5% as complicated compared to this and have a 10000000000000% better tutorial.

Is there any kind of tuturial? I mean, I bought the game and there is a 18 page tutorial, but it is pretty weak (I'd like to use the word useless, but the pictures are so pretty...). I printed Ralegh's stuff - looks to be good and sounds neat. I just can't get from the theory stage to the practical stage (ie: Ralegh will write: most countries start without corps so build them as soon as you can. But how the hell do you build a corps?)

Economically I can't tell really what I should produce. The country will say best good is Iron, lets say. Well some of those countries might produce 6 iron at max and some 18. And the 6 iron one might produce 12 food if agriculture is maxed. I'd say it is good at food and not at iron. I have Ralegh's numbers for various provinces, but don't know what they mean. What is a 1 or a 3 or a 16? Or a 0? There is a slider for Development and for labour. The manual suggests labour is for building city improvements. But actually Development is. I can't tell what labour does at all. Should it be set at zero for every country? And development bonuses (ie: taking less turns to build a city improvement) only kick in after a bunch of workers are put on it. Does building improvements happen with zero workers? What do the improvements cost? I think it costs what it says when you hover the mouse over them - but then is that the cost or benefit? Is it immediately charged - it doesn't seem so.

Militarily I can't figure out how to build corps or meaningfully change my troops around. I figured out that units had to be in the same province, and how to move men around, but not sure I am doing it right. It seems you start with a bunch of divisions that are half full - don't you want to get them to their max? If you do, the "giving" division will be down to a handful of men. How do you delete them? I'm not caught into the concept of what a division is and how reinforcements work. Are you really just building a "name"? And the name costs money to produce? And you can put between 1000 and 20000 men in the "name" (division).

I tried to attack a neighbour and my army just sat in their province twiddling their thumbs. Maybe there was no one to attack. If so, why don't I get the province? Then I set them to charge the walls or whatever. I attacked the main city two rounds but have no idea really how I'm doing. I mean I see casualties in the report on both sides, but how many troops does he have left? How do I tell if my troops are in supply? I had a pretty big force, why don't I get to fight?

Anyway. Its just not clicking - probably because I'm lazy and don't want to put in a ton of learning time - would prefer playing time. I'm sure I can learn this game if I put dozens and dozens of hours into it. Don't get me wrong - I love this kind of game and its complexity. I just wish I could watch someone play over their shoulder or have more "dumbed down" instructions than "19.8. DIPLOMATS: Make sure you move your diplomats - if nothing else have them work on charming a neighbour, or pressure peace on an enemy". Well where does the diplomat have to be to do that? In the enemy territory? A protectorate? Your capital? You know I can't even really tell if advisors are working because if I change the labour allocation in a province and the economic advisor is checked, nothing seems to change. So is the advisor working or is it my allocation?

Bottom line: Crown of Glory looks like a great game. How do I break the ice without using the monotonous "trial and error" method? Where is the REAL tutorial?

Post #: 1

RE: How do you play? - 9/25/2005 10:05:04 AM

BossGnome

Posts: 658
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

I actually had no trouble learning this game. Took me about 3 hours of going through the tutorial and that was it.

you build corps just like anything else. In the military building thingy. you can only build corps in provinces with lvl 5 barracks or up. Then you can PUT UNITS IN THE CORPS. JUST like you put units in armies. The advantage of this is that units put together will move TOGETHER and fight TOGETHER. the advantage of corps is that they can be combined with armies, to make a super big group. (correct me if I'm wrong someone).

Economically you look at the resources on the bottom of the screen. If you pause to look for approx 5 seconds you will see the name of all your resources (including, yes, LABOUR), and if you don't have enough of a resource, you either trade for it or make more of it by upgrading your provinces.

About attaking the guy, what do you mean by "geting to fight"? If you see casualties report you are um, getting to fight... If what you mean is "getting to do a detailed battle", then the enemy must have some sort of a meaningful force for you to be able to fight it. To check how many enemy troops are left, you right click on the place your besieging.

You're probably a RTW player yes? That would explain why it frustrates you (as it frustrates me), as to not be able to take places like switzerland in a turn or 2. Just remember this game's turn speed is 1 turn a month, rtw is 1 turn per 6 months. Be patient, young grasshopper.

RTS games are the gayzzz...

_____________________________

"Hard pressed on my right; my left is in retreat. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
-Gen. Joffre, before the battle of the Marne

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 2

RE: How do you play? - 9/25/2005 10:32:33 AM

Ralegh

Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigleth Pilisar

This is the kind of thread you hate to see - but maybe you'll have mercy on me.

Show no mercy!

quote:

I just don't have the time/patience it seems to go through the learning curve to figure out how to play. Maybe I've been playing too many of those RTS games which are 5% as complicated compared to this and have a 10000000000000% better tutorial.

Is there any kind of tuturial? I mean, I bought the game and there is a 18 page tutorial, but it is pretty weak (I'd like to use the word useless, but the pictures are so pretty...). I printed Ralegh's stuff - looks to be good and sounds neat. I just can't get from the theory stage to the practical stage (ie: Ralegh will write: most countries start without corps so build them as soon as you can. But how the hell do you build a corps?)

This web-forum is a supplementary manual you are looking for - you have come to the right place and asked the right people!

A city needs a certain number of barracks to build an army (3) or a corps (5). Once you city has 5 barracks, you will see "corps" appearing on the list of things you can build there. It takes lots of textiles to build one though.

quote:

Economically I can't tell really what I should produce. The country will say best good is Iron, lets say. Well some of those countries might produce 6 iron at max and some 18. And the 6 iron one might produce 12 food if agriculture is maxed. I'd say it is good at food and not at iron. I have Ralegh's numbers for various provinces, but don't know what they mean. What is a 1 or a 3 or a 16? Or a 0? There is a slider for Development and for labour. The manual suggests labour is for building city improvements. But actually Development is. I can't tell what labour does at all. Should it be set at zero for every country? And development bonuses (ie: taking less turns to build a city improvement) only kick in after a bunch of workers are put on it. Does building improvements happen with zero workers? What do the improvements cost? I think it costs what it says when you hover the mouse over them - but then is that the cost or benefit? Is it immediately charged - it doesn't seem so.

a) The ingame "best resource" is compared to its other resources, not to other provinces, and omits food and labour. The Consol Prov Guide (etc) provide absolute numbers. These bumbers are actually from the games internals, and are used int he math formulae that generate the resources. So a food of 16 is twice as good an 8. We don't knwo the formulae at the moment, but Eric is drafting a whitepaper to explain it all to us (at the moment, the draft whitepaper generates different numbers to the game, so I am bitching about it!)
b) Development is additional workers working on builkding the next level of farms or barrakcs or whatever you have chose to have them work on. If you are a builder-type of player, set 20 or 25 % of your people here (and occasionally 75% when you need to do a crash-build).
c) Labour is a resource that can be stockpiled and spent in other places. Both units and developments can cost labour. Although labour is responsive to both population level and factories, I basically use provinces that are crap for everything else to build labour.
d) If you hover over a development, the tooltip shows you the next level, and what it costs to get there. As soon as you click on it, the costs are taken from your stockpiles, but you don't get the benefits until it has finished building. It will slowly get built with no one devoted to :development:, but it goes faster if you allocate some - the no of months will change (but is only a probability estimate, not a promise).

quote:

Militarily I can't figure out how to build corps or meaningfully change my troops around. I figured out that units had to be in the same province, and how to move men around, but not sure I am doing it right. It seems you start with a bunch of divisions that are half full - don't you want to get them to their max? If you do, the "giving" division will be down to a handful of men. How do you delete them? I'm not caught into the concept of what a division is and how reinforcements work. Are you really just building a "name"? And the name costs money to produce? And you can put between 1000 and 20000 men in the "name" (division).

A division can have up to 10,000 men, and will be "cleaned up" at under 1,000, and will rout from QC with under 4,000. Reinforcements will automatically be placed into divisions in supply (depending on version, foragin may prevent divisions from receiving reinforcements). Putting em into a city is the very best way to let them get filled up.
Think of a division as not just a name - its the weapons, uniforms, quartermasters, cooks - everything except the men.

quote:

I tried to attack a neighbour and my army just sat in their province twiddling their thumbs. Maybe there was no one to attack. If so, why don't I get the province? Then I set them to charge the walls or whatever. I attacked the main city two rounds but have no idea really how I'm doing. I mean I see casualties in the report on both sides, but how many troops does he have left? How do I tell if my troops are in supply? I had a pretty big force, why don't I get to fight?

a) you don't get to resolve sieges - it is automatic (although Eric is working something for another project.... hmmmm)
b) if you right click on the city you can see the remaining str of the baddies
c) the seige didn't start until you had enough troops (or chose the charge the walls option) - read my primer on seiges for more info

quote:

Anyway. Its just not clicking - probably because I'm lazy and don't want to put in a ton of learning time - would prefer playing time. I'm sure I can learn this game if I put dozens and dozens of hours into it. Don't get me wrong - I love this kind of game and its complexity. I just wish I could watch someone play over their shoulder or have more "dumbed down" instructions than "19.8. DIPLOMATS: Make sure you move your diplomats - if nothing else have them work on charming a neighbour, or pressure peace on an enemy". Well where does the diplomat have to be to do that? In the enemy territory? A protectorate? Your capital? You know I can't even really tell if advisors are working because if I change the labour allocation in a province and the economic advisor is checked, nothing seems to change. So is the advisor working or is it my allocation?

Anywhere in that players territory

quote:

Bottom line: Crown of Glory looks like a great game. How do I break the ice without using the monotonous "trial and error" method? Where is the REAL tutorial?

Here

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 3

RE: How do you play? - 9/25/2005 11:23:43 AM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

Hi Tigleth Pilisar

ahh, I used to like that name, not sure how many people know who that was :)

(in a Playby mail game, he was my first Striker I ever made)

follow what the others are saying

play with the system, try and learn all the little tricks, see what works good for you and what don't

in the end, most of it is still common sense, if it should work in real life, it should work here (not always the way you may think though)

just stick with it and learn it, it is a great game

_____________________________

(in reply to Ralegh)

Post #: 4

RE: How do you play? - 9/25/2005 2:51:33 PM

carnifex

Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40� 48' 43N Longtitude 74� 7' 29W
Status: offline

quote:

Economically I can't tell really what I should produce. The country will say best good is Iron, lets say. Well some of those countries might produce 6 iron at max and some 18. And the 6 iron one might produce 12 food if agriculture is maxed. I'd say it is good at food and not at iron. I have Ralegh's numbers for various provinces, but don't know what they mean. What is a 1 or a 3 or a 16? Or a 0? There is a slider for Development and for labour. The manual suggests labour is for building city improvements. But actually Development is.

Here's how I set up my initial production:

First I go through and set every province to produce maximum food. I take note which provinces produce lots of food, and which of those also produce good amounts of horses and wine. The top producers will be my breadbasket provinces.

Then I go through the remaining provinces setting them all to produce Iron. I see which ones make the most Iron, and leave those alone. I repeat this process with Wood, Textiles, and Luxuries.

I save one or two of my high population provinces to produce Manpower (Paris in 1792 good example). Any leftover production should also go into Manpower.

Finally I tweak production so as not to overproduce any one commodity and to make sure I still have enough food to produce population growth. Withough growth your military builds will denude your population.

For example in the 1792 scenario as the French I aim for +1 population growth and for each resource category to produce about 20-22 units per turn (Luxuries slightly less, but they are a special case: demand for them will grow as your population increases so you will have to tweak these from time to time).

If your country has many provinces, you should specialize your provinces, that is have each province concentrate on one resource. If you only have a few provinces, like GB, Sweden, or Prussia, you should probably avoid comitting more than 50% of your effort in any one province to just one resource (early Sweden takes particular tweaking to maximize resource collection).

In any event, when facing a choice, remember that some resources, like Iron and Timber, can be saved in goodly quantities, so even a trickle will add up and allow you to build that Artillery or whatever. However, things like Luxuries and especially Food are consumed each turn, so make sure you produce enough of those each turn. Notice that your food requirements vary according to whether you are foraging or supplying through depot, so take that into account.

[After you set up your initial production, admittedly the biggest hassle on the first turn, save the game before doing anything else.]

After I set up production, I go through all the provinces and take note of what can be Developed. I instantly build any item that is not developed, because going from level 0 to level 1 costs nothing but time. Afterwards I check to see what level 1 I can improve to level 2 and so on.

The most important thing to build initially are Factories. They increase your labor pool and increase production of many other resources. Other developments I try to build initially are Barracks and Culture (Your initial stockpile will allow for a good amount of Culture improvement that will be more difficult later as Luxuries are eaten to keep your people happy).

Depending on your level of Feudalism, your Developments can take quite a while to build. I decrease that time by using the Development sliders, but pay attention to make sure my critical resources are still being produced in sufficient quantities. For nations with a low feudal rating, like France, I aim to complete a Development in around 3-4 turns, and in high feudal nations like Russia I aim for 5-6 turns.

Specific answers:

quote:

I can't tell what labour does at all.

It produces Manpower. It costs 20 Manpower to produce I infantry division for example. It costs 8 Manpower to increase Roads from lv 1 to 2.

quote:

Does building improvements happen with zero workers?

Yes, just takes longer.

quote:

What do the improvements cost? I think it costs what it says when you hover the mouse over them - but then is that the cost or benefit?

That is the cost. You can't undo the choice so click carefully.

quote:

Is it immediately charged - it doesn't seem so.

It's charged right away. The bottom bar doesn't update right away.

quote:

Militarily I can't figure out how to build corps

You can only build a Corps in a province with a Barracks level of 5 or more (and of course you need all resources, particulary 80 Textiles). There are various units you can't build until you achieve the requisite level of Barracks or Factory development.

Hope any of this was useful.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

Post #: 5

RE: How do you play? - 9/25/2005 9:44:23 PM

Naomi

Posts: 654
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Osaka
Status: offline

This is a game not hard to learn. My current game at Bonaparte brought me to a too-early French victory over Austro-Russian forces, with the duo sueing for peace before December 1805 after having lost as many as 140,000 souls to my meagre toll of under 30,000. Now, I was starting to lose interest in this game, with Sweden and Prussia fighting each other on one hand, Russia-vs-Turkey war in progress on the other (even when they expressed alarmed about France's surge), while me mostly being idle except occasionally encircling and capturing - in a single round - stupid Britons who were relentlessly landing on Brittany. To my condolence, the Royal Navy seemed to be more active in a Bonaparte game, sailing to and fro and searching for my privateers in Mediterranean waters, where they almost never stepped in less difficult games. However, a mystery remains about their blockading behaviour; they resorted habitually to blockading the provinces which neither had any vessels nor were targets for their besieging effort.

(in reply to carnifex)

Post #: 6

RE: How do you play? - 9/25/2005 10:43:56 PM

Tigleth Pilisar

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

Thank you deeply for your kind and thoughtful replies - particularly to Ralegh and carnifex. You've encouraged me to keep at it.

And Hard Sarge - I love the name too. You may note that the spelling is somewhat changed from the "original owner" hundreds of years ago. Tiglath-Pileser III is the Assyrian king it is derived from.

I love complexity, history and games like this. But from my original question and comments, you might infer that I'm a bit of a baby or simpleton not to catch on so quick.

Suffice it to say I have a lot of other responsibilities and gaming only gets a small amount of my time - and perhaps I'm not that quick upstairs .... And I like to thouroughly understand the whole game - not just activate a bunch of advisors and let the game play itself. Nonetheless, I thank you again for you comments and hope to add some more questions here shortly to get me up that learning curve. I am pleased in this community to see so many generous with their time and willing to get others up to speed.

(in reply to Naomi)

Post #: 7

RE: How do you play? - 9/25/2005 11:13:42 PM

Tigleth Pilisar

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

Actually, here are some quick questions right away before I give it another crack. I think you've answered much of the economic questions. Some day I'll have to play around with feudal level and tax, but for now I'll follow advice I read about 20% tax and leaving feudal alone. And also I've read about waste but not sure how to determine how much I am wasting without using a side piece of paper.

1) How do merchant ships work? I think I read about going to the "best" places, but how do you tell where to put them? Do they have to be at sea, or can they sit in a port? How do you decide which sea province to put them in? I understand they provide money, but how do you tell how much an individual boat is bringing in? How do you fix them when damaged?

2) How does supply work? I understand about setting units to forage or buy supply directly (I think). I mean I understand forage, but how does supply work? Shouldn't the unit always be set to forage and whatever excess isn't foragable comes from supply? Do you look at the forage level for a province and then manually set which divisions get forage and which buy supply? When you pick forage or supply at the corps or army level, does it apply to divisions below it? If not, what is the significance of setting it at the army or corps level? How do you give supply to a unit? Does there have to be a depot if the number of units exceeds the forage level of the province? When you talk about a "supply chain" I assume it means depots through conquered provinces linking to a main province. How does this work? How much supply is transferred? Where does supply come from? Is it food only? What is the relationship between food units and number of soldiers it feeds (1 to 10,000?)? Manuals talk about depots being expensive. How expensive? Where does this show up on the economic screens?

3) How does supply and navy work? Can ships sit at sea without going back for supply? Is there supply chains for the sea?

4) Are generals always put at the top level? Their modifiers work on more units that way. And I haven't tried Britain, but are generals the same as admirals? Can they be assigned to ships?

5) How do you tell if a unit is fatigued? Are those comments in the manual related to only tactical battles, or do units suffer fatigue from moving?

6) How do reinforcements work? Where do they come from? Unallocated labour, or just based on the draft statistics you set up in policy? How do you know how many reinforcements will go to a certain army? Are reinforcements automatically of the same unit type and quality as the division they are entering? I would guess not because your draft policy states a certain morale level, so is a weighted average done on the morale of the reinforced division and that of the sent reinforcements?

I'm going to try again and maybe I'll figure some of it out myself - but likely have more questions.

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 8

RE: How do you play? - 9/26/2005 3:32:59 AM

Ralegh

Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigleth Pilisar

Actually, here are some quick questions right away before I give it another crack. I think you've answered much of the economic questions. Some day I'll have to play around with feudal level and tax, but for now I'll follow advice I read about 20% tax and leaving feudal alone. And also I've read about waste but not sure how to determine how much I am wasting without using a side piece of paper.

a) leave feaudal, but when your national morale is over 0, set tax to the maximum (30%) - it will lower national morale, but you will need the money.
b) ignore waste in 1.1 - you can't do anything about it. That changes in 1.2 (currently in beta)

quote:

1) How do merchant ships work? I think I read about going to the "best" places, but how do you tell where to put them? Do they have to be at sea, or can they sit in a port? How do you decide which sea province to put them in? I understand they provide money, but how do you tell how much an individual boat is bringing in? How do you fix them when damaged?

When you put a merchant in a sea area, it will guess how much trade there is to bring in, and report it on the screen. This figure is a reliable guide to comparing different sea areas (but worthless in terms of predicting how much you will actually get). Basically, you get more if there are more docks in ports neighbouring that sea zone, so anywhere off england/denmark/italy is pretty good. But your actual return will be massively reduced by competing merchants in the sea area, your feudal level, and lots of other stuff - don't bother to think it though - kust use the number the game gives you to pick a goood sea zone, and leave it at that.
(in 1.2 (currently in beta) this stuff is made more obvious with a special merchant section of the eco report).

All ships can "heal" slowly while at sea (faster with the Naval Repairs upgrade) and more quickly while in a port (based on the docks number). There is no cost, and it happens automatically.

quote:

2) How does supply work? I understand about setting units to forage or buy supply directly (I think). I mean I understand forage, but how does supply work? Shouldn't the unit always be set to forage and whatever excess isn't foragable comes from supply? Do you look at the forage level for a province and then manually set which divisions get forage and which buy supply? When you pick forage or supply at the corps or army level, does it apply to divisions below it? If not, what is the significance of setting it at the army or corps level? How do you give supply to a unit? Does there have to be a depot if the number of units exceeds the forage level of the province? When you talk about a "supply chain" I assume it means depots through conquered provinces linking to a main province. How does this work? How much supply is transferred? Where does supply come from? Is it food only? What is the relationship between food units and number of soldiers it feeds (1 to 10,000?)? Manuals talk about depots being expensive. How expensive? Where does this show up on the economic screens?

Supply is money and food. Both are taken from your national stockpiles. The cost of supply is abstracted a little, and is based on the division, rather than the number of troops. 3 divisions of 2000 men cost 3 times as much to supply than 1 division of 10,000 men.

Upkeep is a different and additional concept - upkeep is just money, and represents their pay. (Units that dont get fed might be OK if the forage zones are ok - units that dont get paid melt away quickly). Depots dont need to be supplied themselves, but cost a lot of upkeep - you can see how much in the Supply Report, under upkeep - they cost much more when in enemy territory than in friendly territory.

In 1.1, only the supply setting at the top of the chain does anything - so if an army is set to forage, all its divisions will do so, regardless of their own setting and any corps settings. In 1.2 (currently in beta) the subordinate settings are more meaningful, and provide more fine grained options.

Think of it this way: a unit set to forage will always forage. A unit set to pay for supply will do so if it can (if it is next to or on a depot), but will forage if it doesn't have a depot nearby.

An unlimited amount of supply can come from any depot or through any depot chain - but note that supply costs lots extra if there are more than 20 divisions in a single province.

quote:

3) How does supply and navy work? Can ships sit at sea without going back for supply? Is there supply chains for the sea?

Ships do not need supply - they carry stores for the sailors, I suppose. If the ships are carrying soliders, then you need supply - otherwise they will quickly starve to death. Supply for divisions being carried on fleets is done by depots - you just build the depot chain across the water. You will need to have at least one ship unit seperated from a fleet to maintain the depots at sea (fixed in 1.2 so a fleet can do it).

quote:

4) Are generals always put at the top level? Their modifiers work on more units that way. And I haven't tried Britain, but are generals the same as admirals? Can they be assigned to ships?

Although the AI usually leaves generals at the top level, and then assigns them to lower levels during combat, I strongly recommend human players allocate their generals out - 2 star generals should command corps, 3 and 4 star generals should command armies. Additional generals can be scattered wherever. Generals do have different effects depending on their rank and assignment - a 3 star assigned to an corps wont affect other corps in the army, while if allocated at the army leverl they would affect everyone in the army. A 2 star allocated at the army level will end up only affecting the division he fights with - allocated to a corps he will influcence all the divisions in the corps.

quote:

5) How do you tell if a unit is fatigued? Are those comments in the manual related to only tactical battles, or do units suffer fatigue from moving?

Unit only suffer fatigue on the strategic map if they are set to forced march (in which case they are always tired, even if they don't move!). Otherwise, fatigue does not affect the strategic map - a month is long enough for it to be abstracted out.
In detailed combat, the units description would include the word "fatigued" -but they don't currently get fatigued just from moving (expect for forced march) - they get fatigued from taking fire.

quote:

6) How do reinforcements work? Where do they come from? Unallocated labour, or just based on the draft statistics you set up in policy? How do you know how many reinforcements will go to a certain army? Are reinforcements automatically of the same unit type and quality as the division they are entering? I would guess not because your draft policy states a certain morale level, so is a weighted average done on the morale of the reinforced division and that of the sent reinforcements?

Draft stats - unallocated labour is wasted and has no benefit. You don't "know" how many reinf a particular unit will get - the available reinforcements are shared out. In 1.2 this is done a little better, with units in enemy territory getting less reinforcements per turn.
Yes, reinf are automatically of the right type, without that costing you anything - its abstracted out in the cost of the draft.
Reinf do cause a weighted average of the morale as you guessed.

Note that if you run out of cash, you wont be able to pay for the reinf to be distributed, which is a critical thing. Reinf is one of the very last expenditures, so you need to keep you cash account positive.

quote:

I'm going to try again and maybe I'll figure some of it out myself - but likely have more questions.

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 9

RE: How do you play? - 9/26/2005 8:39:22 PM

ericbabe

Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline

Thanks for answering the questions posted, Ralegh et al.

The AI blocks ports because when a port is blockaded the port's province's monetary income is halved.

(in reply to Ralegh)

Post #: 10

RE: How do you play? - 9/26/2005 10:04:02 PM

Naomi

Posts: 654
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Osaka
Status: offline

Maybe I should start a thread for it, but it is not really paramount enough to waste everyone's precious time and it is just a petty suspicion haunting over my head.

Concerning the effect of generals on strategic movements, I would like to know if their initiative ratings will help ease the movement of the troops under their commands. Supposed it does, if a lower-rank general is leading a formation, will he be helpful this way? There is a training I have been always sceptical of, which helps strategic movement by 10%. Can I ask if it helps make troops pass a movement check 10% more easily, or else?

Next comes the effect of generals on a battlefield in a quick resolution. Are senior generals not different from their junior comrades, in that they are likewise assigned randomly to a single division and stuck there till the end? Is there any improved value by putting more than three generals on a fighting side, as the three slots of generals' portraits always land me into doubt that there is any? :p

(in reply to ericbabe)

Post #: 11

RE: How do you play? - 9/27/2005 3:02:05 AM

Ralegh

Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Naomi

Maybe I should start a thread for it, but it is not really paramount enough to waste everyone's precious time and it is just a petty suspicion haunting over my head.

Concerning the effect of generals on strategic movements, I would like to know if their initiative ratings will help ease the movement of the troops under their commands. Supposed it does, if a lower-rank general is leading a formation, will he be helpful this way? There is a training I have been always sceptical of, which helps strategic movement by 10%. Can I ask if it helps make troops pass a movement check 10% more easily, or else?

Hmmm.
You can actually work out the modifier from the information in the manual, but it isn't clear how it goes together.
+ initiative effect of weather and terrain (using the hexside that is being crossed), and
+ base initiative for the units (presumably the worst in the army is used),
+ the influence of the generals. But is the generals a cumulative thing, or the just the best general in the army?

quote:

Next comes the effect of generals on a battlefield in a quick resolution. Are senior generals not different from their junior comrades, in that they are likewise assigned randomly to a single division and stuck there till the end? Is there any improved value by putting more than three generals on a fighting side, as the three slots of generals' portraits always land me into doubt that there is any? :p

I have asked this question before, and Eric assures me that (a) under the hood, the generals are being assigned to army/corps as well as divisions, just like in detailed combat. Then their influence is felt appropriately (so a 4 star affects everything). To maximize the use you get from them, 2 stars should be allocated to corps before the combat...

Eric also assures me that generals in excess of the 3 drawn DO influence combat, as do reinforcing generals (alther they don't get drawn at all).

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Naomi)

Post #: 12

RE: How do you play? - 9/27/2005 5:31:07 AM

Naomi

Posts: 654
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Osaka
Status: offline

Thanks for your response. Actually, I would more like to know how a general's initiative rating and March Logistics affect the troops' movements on the strategic map.

(in reply to Ralegh)

Post #: 13

RE: How do you play? - 9/27/2005 10:17:10 AM

Tigleth Pilisar

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

Ok. Here's the next set of questions:

1) POW's. They look kind of like they are troops for me. Are they? I think I read about putting them to work. What do you do with them and how do you do it? Can I reinforce my army with them?

2) Seiges. How long do they take? How do you make them go better? What is the significance of seeing a city burn on the map? They seem to burn meaning they've been attacked but does it matter? If I have a burning city, how do I fix it? Ulimately, how do you get an enemy's province?

3) Enemy is roaming in my country. Does this matter? How is he supplied? He forages my land? Do reinforcements go to him in my land (ie: can he be reinforced?)

4) How/when is production in a provice stopped? If my armies are in his land, can he produce?

5) How do you capture his supply wagon in detailed combat?

6) What are some tips to getting more money. Trade, merchants, lower military readiness, more tax - what else?

(in reply to Naomi)

Post #: 14

RE: How do you play? - 9/27/2005 10:36:04 AM

Ralegh

Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigleth Pilisar
Ok. Here's the next set of questions:
1) POW's. They look kind of like they are troops for me. Are they? I think I read about putting them to work. What do you do with them and how do you do it? Can I reinforce my army with them?

POWs are enemy troops you are holding until the end of the war with that nation. In COG 1.1 they are a pain - they use up some of the forage value of the province or you supply them (pay money? yuck!) and if a single enemy gets into the province, they can free them and suddenly all those POWs are combat-worthy again - leave a significant force to guard your POWs. POWs will assist development in the province they are in - so if the province was building say more barracks, they will help if get built faster. Most of us make them starve to death if we can.

In v1.2 (currently in beta), POWs are less onerous - and they can't be freed if they are in your provinces - and you get some extra reward when the war finishes for having them.

quote:

2) Seiges. How long do they take? How do you make them go better? What is the significance of seeing a city burn on the map? They seem to burn meaning they've been attacked but does it matter? If I have a burning city, how do I fix it? Ulimately, how do you get an enemy's province?

A seige could take only a month, or forever. More troops on your side will help a lot (particularly artillery) - note that a division of militia is as good as a division of guards both at seiging and at defending sieges. Note that "Charging the Walls" only helps you get the seige going: it doesn't kill more enemy. The burning thing is just a graphical reminder of seiges in progress- if you stop the siege it will go away. If you occupy the city in a province, then one of two things will happen: for some provinces, it will become conquered, and it now belongs to you completely. In other provinces, it will become "occupied" (and get a hash pattern on the map) - this is now temporarily your territory, and will produce some resources for you. To make it really yours, it needs to be ceded in the peace treaty after you win the war.

Final note: if the city is a port you need to blockade it to prevent them getting food by sea (which happens automatically and for free).

quote:

3) Enemy is roaming in my country. Does this matter? How is he supplied? He forages my land? Do reinforcements go to him in my land (ie: can he be reinforced?)

In 1.1 small numbers of reinforcements will reach these out-of-supply and in-enemy-territory units. (In 1.2 they don't)
If 3 enemy divisions are in one of your provinces, that provinces production of food will be halved.
A few more divisions and they may be able to siege cities!
There main impacts are 2: (a) destroying your depots [no longer happens in 1.2] and (b) freeing POWs - so protect them [again, no longer happens in 1.2]

quote:

4) How/when is production in a provice stopped? If my armies are in his land, can he produce?

3 or more enemy divisions in a province halves production of FOOD
Occupying the province prevents the enemy getting any resources from it (and you get some).
Any enemy presence in a province will stop new units being built in that province.

quote:

5) How do you capture his supply wagon in detailed combat?

You need to displace it - a cavalry charge in line from the rear is the very best way, but I have done it with infantry. (ie. must be a good charge attack). The Cavalry Feriocity upgrade improves the chance of your cavalry causing a displace.

quote:

6) What are some tips to getting more money. Trade, merchants, lower military readiness, more tax - what else?

Treaties are the main one you are missing, and colonies.
But the big tip is to learn to spend less. (As my mother is always telling me, and I faithfully tell my wife. She tells me to earn more!)

Keep asking your questions - this thread will be a great source for more notes for the tip guides etc so more players can get this info.

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 15

RE: How do you play? - 9/27/2005 3:57:01 PM

ericbabe

Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
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I believe that 3 enemy divisions will stop all income in a province.

Only the highest ranking commander in a group modifies that unit's initiative. If there's a tie of several equally ranked commanders, then the highest initiative prevails.

(in reply to Ralegh)

Post #: 16

RE: How do you play? - 9/27/2005 5:23:11 PM

jvgfanatic

Posts: 301
Joined: 8/18/2005
From: Scarborough, Yorkshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigleth Pilisar
I love complexity, history and games like this. But from my original question and comments, you might infer that I'm a bit of a baby or simpleton not to catch on so quick.

I am so in the same boat. I love complexity. Have been playing strategy games for years. Only four weeks ago I started getting into COMPUTER strategy games. It's not the same and I'm feeling overwhelmed.

You'd think after 14 years in the computer industry as a programmer, tester, and designer and over 20 years of playing strategy board games that I'd find computer strategy games easy...sigh.

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 17

RE: How do you play? - 9/27/2005 5:27:30 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

quote:

6) What are some tips to getting more money. Trade, merchants, lower military readiness, more tax - what else?

don;t forget, one of the bigger ones, is not to use too many depots if you do not need to, they cost money !!!!

use as many as you need, where ever you need, but once the need is gone, get rid of the extra ones

_____________________________

(in reply to jvgfanatic)

Post #: 18

RE: How do you play? - 9/27/2005 11:12:49 PM

Naomi

Posts: 654
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Osaka
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigleth Pilisar

Ok. Here's the next set of questions:

1) POW's. They look kind of like they are troops for me. Are they? I think I read about putting them to work. What do you do with them and how do you do it? Can I reinforce my army with them?

6) What are some tips to getting more money. Trade, merchants, lower military readiness, more tax - what else?

Disposing of POWs to where they will both be out of reach and starve fastest is always an appeal to me, as keeping them as dependents is rather costly. The ideal province to do so with for France is Gilbratar. It is better to instruct (allied) Spaniads to go there taking the province first, though they will often elect to do so. (Btw, POWs will contribute to besieging efforts whenever there are besieging troops with them, as the Events report will post their casualties under the Siege section.

) Transporting them to Malta provides an alternative, with Malta being counted as part of Central Meditteranean Sea, hence with no forage value at all and no AI nation caring to send releasing forces there to claim them back.

How to get more $$ (in the best way) depends on which nation you chooses to play. Generally speaking, more merchants are as best suited to GB as significant tax hikes to France.

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 19

RE: How do you play? - 9/28/2005 2:00:58 AM

Gem35

Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

I was a RTS fan ... the key word being was. CoG and WitP stand head and shoulders above any strategy game out there. Welcome to our community Tigleth Pilisar, stick around and Eric and company will " lead you to the promised land"

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?

Banner By Feurer Krieg

(in reply to Naomi)

Post #: 20

RE: How do you play? - 9/28/2005 2:34:41 PM

Reg Pither

Posts: 196
Joined: 9/19/2003
From: London
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

I believe that 3 enemy divisions will stop all income in a province.

Can it just be any three divisions, regardless of their strength, or is there a minimum total strength requirement? It would seem strange to have two divisions of 20,000 men not affecting income, while three divisions totalling maybe 10,000 stop income completely.

(in reply to ericbabe)

Post #: 21

RE: How do you play? - 9/29/2005 2:22:10 AM

Doobious

Posts: 195
Joined: 6/18/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

I would humbly suggest that the questions raised here be integrated into the manual revision. I had almost all of the same questions when I started playing, and could not find answers in the manual.

Your not alone Tigleth Pilisar.

Others here struggled with the learning curve of this game, and the depth that is not fully covered in the manual.

Thanks for starting this post.

(in reply to Reg Pither)

Post #: 22

RE: How do you play? - 10/2/2005 10:38:23 PM

Tigleth Pilisar

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

Ok, next set of questions:

1) Colonies: How do you get them, or see how many you have, or influence them? I understand you can trade them. Are they kind of like free money and there is a set number of them?

2) Upgrades: Is the timeline for upgrades finite? That is, do I wait so many turns and then get an upgrade? Or does something I choose influence when upgrades occur. Is there a "cumulative affect screen" for upgrades, or simply a list of upgrades owned and then I click one at a time and figure out the aggregate myself?

3) Starvation of provinces: I don't exactly follow what forage is. Lets say a province has a forage value of 50k. If no soldiers, is this 50k lost? If no then its kind of a food resource only present if there is a division to take it? If some soldiers, do they forage, then seek a depot second if set to forage and the opposite if set to supply? The latter doesn't make sense, because you would fully supply from a depot always anyway, I think. Wouldn't you always want to forage first, if foraging cost nothing? If so, why burden us with an option to supply first that makes no sense?

But if an enemy is in the province, you said it takes 3 divisions, then no income to the owner of the city. Right? How does supply work then for the garrisoned troops? Lets say there is 50k of soldiers occupying that are enemy and 20k of friendly soldiers garrisoned in the same province. And forrage level for the province is 50k. Who gets fed? And if the answer is the 20k owner of the province gets it first, then what does that say of the seige option "starve the city"? You'd only be starving yourself.

4) Can you use POWs to seige? How do you get them to work, I mean labour for you?

5) Reinforcing I still don't understand. It seems all provinces contribute to a pool then I guess reinforcements are spread out pro-rata? If you set a specific province to reinforce to an army then I guess its reinforcements don't go in the pool, they go to that army? What if that army is full? Back to the reinforcement pool? And why is the dropdown selection in random order to pick where to reinforce? Why is it not alphabetically sorted or something? What does it mean to reinforce to a province? Reinforcements go to that garrison in that province, and if it is full then back to the pool? Why can't I set many provinces at once to garrison to a certain army?

6) Military screen. Why is this not alphabetically sorted? Why is it that if I click on an army, I don't go to it on the map. The military screen allows me to see things one way (not alphabetical, so I have to goof around finding things) than I have to find those units separately on the map because it is not linked. I think you have a provincial management button on the military screen, but that is not linked either! If I press it nothing happens.

7) Supply just isn't very transparent. I don't know if I will need a depot or not, or if I do if some foraging drops my costs. I know you can figure it out - but we are playing a computer game. It should figure it out and tell me. What 4 star general is told by his subordinate to do the math himself on a supply line?

8) Tips on detailed combat. MMMmmmmm. Hexes. I love hexes. Just a wargamer thing. And I love the concepts you have of line/march/square/charging etc. And supply - well thought out. In general though, practical playing is not working out like I imagined. Morale seems to drop to nothing too fast. First guy to break the other guy in a turn or two wins. If my troops don't immediately line, unless they are guards, they likely will not be able to line for the rest of the combat. Resting doesn't seem to help much. Basically, I can't really form a "line" of several divisions, practially. I mean some battles maybe, if you don't move first. Anyway, detailed combat seems really cool, but I think I've still got a bunch to learn.

I don't want to overload on questions. But would appreciate responses to the above. Thanks.

(in reply to Doobious)

Post #: 23

RE: How do you play? - 10/3/2005 7:00:47 AM

Ralegh

Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigleth Pilisar
1) Colonies: How do you get them, or see how many you have, or influence them? I understand you can trade them. Are they kind of like free money and there is a set number of them?

There is a set number of colinies in existance. They can change hands through either treaties (including peace conditions) or due to "colonial warfare" - there are two upgrades that get your colonies trying to take over other colonies. There is no other way for you to interact with colonies. [Colonies produce money and some spice, and with particular upgrades also generate a militia levy.]

quote:

2) Upgrades: Is the timeline for upgrades finite? That is, do I wait so many turns and then get an upgrade? Or does something I choose influence when upgrades occur. Is there a "cumulative affect screen" for upgrades, or simply a list of upgrades owned and then I click one at a time and figure out the aggregate myself?

In the Economy Screen, there is a button referring to Training - that is your upgrades. It shows you your current "training points", and lists all the upgrades you currently have. Each "training point" entitles you to an upgrade - once a quarter the game compares your current training points witht he number of upgrades you currently have: if you have more training points, you get an upgrade. (You don't lose upgrades even if your training points drop.) "Training points" go up based on the number of level of barracks and the number of levels of culture (barracks are worth twice culture) - note that going from a level 8 to a level 9 barracks is worth the same training points as going from level 1 to 2.

quote:

3) Starvation of provinces: I don't exactly follow what forage is. Lets say a province has a forage value of 50k. If no soldiers, is this 50k lost? If no then its kind of a food resource only present if there is a division to take it? If some soldiers, do they forage, then seek a depot second if set to forage and the opposite if set to supply? The latter doesn't make sense, because you would fully supply from a depot always anyway, I think. Wouldn't you always want to forage first, if foraging cost nothing? If so, why burden us with an option to supply first that makes no sense?

But if an enemy is in the province, you said it takes 3 divisions, then no income to the owner of the city. Right? How does supply work then for the garrisoned troops? Lets say there is 50k of soldiers occupying that are enemy and 20k of friendly soldiers garrisoned in the same province. And forrage level for the province is 50k. Who gets fed? And if the answer is the 20k owner of the province gets it first, then what does that say of the seige option "starve the city"? You'd only be starving yourself.

- Think of forage as getting food from undeveloped land - if its not used for forage its 'wasted'.
- The historical reality is that units were either supplied by depots or not. If not, they tried to forage - and some died. Units in this period did not forage as much as they could and draw for supply for the rest, however logical that may seem to a 21st century person. So its a realism thing.
- Troops in a beseiged city don't get to use the province's forage value at all - they are resolved differently, and don't effect the foraging of units in the rest of the province. The options the besiegers take against the city don't affect the foraging in the rest of the province.
- If there were forces of multiple nationalities in a province (whether at war with each other or friendly), then the province's forage value is divided between the forces proportionately (so if 1/3 of the men in the province are mine, they forage against 1/3 of the forage value).
- Note that the forage value changes based on things like weather, season etc.
- Most importantly: the forage value is an estimate: the actual forage available will be within 25% of the estimate based on a probability distribution. So if you put 60k men in a 60k forage value province, they will lose men due to foraging about half the time!

quote:

4) Can you use POWs to seige? How do you get them to work, I mean labour for you?

To get labour from them, put them in one of your provinces. You don't need to do anything else.
No, they dont siege (or resist seige) on your behalf.

quote:

5) Reinforcing I still don't understand. It seems all provinces contribute to a pool then I guess reinforcements are spread out pro-rata? If you set a specific province to reinforce to an army then I guess its reinforcements don't go in the pool, they go to that army? What if that army is full? Back to the reinforcement pool? And why is the dropdown selection in random order to pick where to reinforce? Why is it not alphabetically sorted or something? What does it mean to reinforce to a province? Reinforcements go to that garrison in that province, and if it is full then back to the pool? Why can't I set many provinces at once to garrison to a certain army?

The reinforce to command for a province sets the initial move order for any divisions built in that province. It has nothing to do with reinforcements, contrary to the obvious similiarity in the names.

In 1.2, reinforcements are allocated by calculating the total that could be distributed [based on a maximum per division from their unit type (easy to reinf inf, hard for arty and guards for example) and current location (more at home, less in enemy territory)] and proportioning out the available reinforcements.

The random order of the drop down annoys the hell out out of me, and I have asked for it to be alphabetical.

quote:

6) Military screen. Why is this not alphabetically sorted? Why is it that if I click on an army, I don't go to it on the map. The military screen allows me to see things one way (not alphabetical, so I have to goof around finding things) than I have to find those units separately on the map because it is not linked. I think you have a provincial management button on the military screen, but that is not linked either! If I press it nothing happens.

The random order of the drop down annoys the hell out out of me, and I have asked for it to be alphabetical.
A jump to command is a frequently requested feature.

quote:

7) Supply just isn't very transparent. I don't know if I will need a depot or not, or if I do if some foraging drops my costs. I know you can figure it out - but we are playing a computer game. It should figure it out and tell me. What 4 star general is told by his subordinate to do the math himself on a supply line?

Now that I have explained foraging for you, perhaps you will have a better feel for all this. Your idea (showing on an army, corps, or division the aggregate supply cost for that unit if they are set to use supply) is a really good one, and I will propose it as an enhancement to the game (the 3rd patch will have lots of feature enhancements, some small and some large - we are probably too late to get this into the 2nd patch).

quote:

8) Tips on detailed combat. MMMmmmmm. Hexes. I love hexes. Just a wargamer thing. And I love the concepts you have of line/march/square/charging etc. And supply - well thought out. In general though, practical playing is not working out like I imagined. Morale seems to drop to nothing too fast. First guy to break the other guy in a turn or two wins. If my troops don't immediately line, unless they are guards, they likely will not be able to line for the rest of the combat. Resting doesn't seem to help much. Basically, I can't really form a "line" of several divisions, practially. I mean some battles maybe, if you don't move first. Anyway, detailed combat seems really cool, but I think I've still got a bunch to learn.

Yeah - there is so much depth in this game it can be hard at first. Don't give up! For example, the idea that you can change formation more easily if you are out of sight of the enemy is cool, but very un-obvious. Here are two tips you seem ready for:

a) troops should rest whenever they get fatigued unless you have a great reason not to. Non-fatigued troops are more effective at doing damage, more resiliant to enemy damage, etc etc etc. I have often compared having one division fire every turn next to a division next to it which only fires when it is not fatigued, and the 'rester' does more damage over the battle. (I retest this after any changes that might effect it). You can help them recover morale more quickly when they rest by putting a leader with them - that is the most important use of leaders on the battle field. When troops rest, they recover morale - and that is what you need to do!

b) changing formation if improved by not being fatigued, by being out of the line of sight of the enemy, and by having at least some supply. Depending on what your forces actually are, you might find there is some user-error in what you are doing. [It is massively effected by the unit's starting morale: militia/irreg cav are unlikely to change formation; and the upgrade for changing formations helps lots too.] Your frustration with this is probably fair enough if you are playing Turkey - very low quality troops, very unlikely to successfully change formation.

[You might also like to read Ralegh's Guide to Hexwar in the War Room - in the main tips thread.]

quote:

I don't want to overload on questions. But would appreciate responses to the above. Thanks.

You keep asking 'em. Others are getting value too. I'm glad someone who doesn't know the game yet is putting in the intellectual effort to ask the questions!

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 24

RE: How do you play? - 10/3/2005 7:15:18 AM

Naomi

Posts: 654
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Osaka
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigleth Pilisar

Ok, next set of questions:

1) Colonies: How do you get them, or see how many you have, or influence them? I understand you can trade them. Are they kind of like free money and there is a set number of them?

2) Upgrades: Is the timeline for upgrades finite? That is, do I wait so many turns and then get an upgrade? Or does something I choose influence when upgrades occur. Is there a "cumulative affect screen" for upgrades, or simply a list of upgrades owned and then I click one at a time and figure out the aggregate myself?

3) Starvation of provinces: I don't exactly follow what forage is. Lets say a province has a forage value of 50k. If no soldiers, is this 50k lost? If no then its kind of a food resource only present if there is a division to take it? If some soldiers, do they forage, then seek a depot second if set to forage and the opposite if set to supply? The latter doesn't make sense, because you would fully supply from a depot always anyway, I think. Wouldn't you always want to forage first, if foraging cost nothing? If so, why burden us with an option to supply first that makes no sense?

But if an enemy is in the province, you said it takes 3 divisions, then no income to the owner of the city. Right? How does supply work then for the garrisoned troops? Lets say there is 50k of soldiers occupying that are enemy and 20k of friendly soldiers garrisoned in the same province. And forrage level for the province is 50k. Who gets fed? And if the answer is the 20k owner of the province gets it first, then what does that say of the seige option "starve the city"? You'd only be starving yourself.

4) Can you use POWs to seige? How do you get them to work, I mean labour for you?

5) Reinforcing I still don't understand. It seems all provinces contribute to a pool then I guess reinforcements are spread out pro-rata? If you set a specific province to reinforce to an army then I guess its reinforcements don't go in the pool, they go to that army? What if that army is full? Back to the reinforcement pool? And why is the dropdown selection in random order to pick where to reinforce? Why is it not alphabetically sorted or something? What does it mean to reinforce to a province? Reinforcements go to that garrison in that province, and if it is full then back to the pool? Why can't I set many provinces at once to garrison to a certain army?

6) Military screen. Why is this not alphabetically sorted? Why is it that if I click on an army, I don't go to it on the map. The military screen allows me to see things one way (not alphabetical, so I have to goof around finding things) than I have to find those units separately on the map because it is not linked. I think you have a provincial management button on the military screen, but that is not linked either! If I press it nothing happens.

7) Supply just isn't very transparent. I don't know if I will need a depot or not, or if I do if some foraging drops my costs. I know you can figure it out - but we are playing a computer game. It should figure it out and tell me. What 4 star general is told by his subordinate to do the math himself on a supply line?

8) Tips on detailed combat. MMMmmmmm. Hexes. I love hexes. Just a wargamer thing. And I love the concepts you have of line/march/square/charging etc. And supply - well thought out. In general though, practical playing is not working out like I imagined. Morale seems to drop to nothing too fast. First guy to break the other guy in a turn or two wins. If my troops don't immediately line, unless they are guards, they likely will not be able to line for the rest of the combat. Resting doesn't seem to help much. Basically, I can't really form a "line" of several divisions, practially. I mean some battles maybe, if you don't move first. Anyway, detailed combat seems really cool, but I think I've still got a bunch to learn.

I don't want to overload on questions. But would appreciate responses to the above. Thanks.

I find myself free enough to share with you some of my findings:
1. 2 ways of getting them. By asking a nation for it through treaties. By training on "Colonial Warfare" to increase the chances of capturing them from hostile nations. Going into the "country details" of the diplomacy screen will reveal the number of colonies each of the major powers possesses. There is a total of them, which is 100 something.

2. There is an index indicating when to benefit from a new upgrade. Looking into the "military training" of the economic-management screen lets you know of it. Developing culture and barracks has effect on this index.

3. Forage means how many soldiers a province can feed without costing your nation's stockpiles of gold and money. This forage value is an approximate figure, with (top and bottom) bands of about 25% to operate within. In version 1.10, land units with forage orders will not necessarily act on their orders and eat off the land, they will draw on supply as long as a depot is nearby. In my opinion, 3 enemy divisions may not be large enough to encircle a city well to block all stealth food inflows to the city and the city may have food stockpiles abundant enough for a long period of time or perhaps the mayor will tell people to skimp on food to weather out the hardship.

4. Prisoners of war can help in besieging efforts, provided that there are non-POW units acting in cooperation. Playing France in 1805, telling Spain to go to Gibratar and sending POWs there, you will see French casualties in start-of-month Events reports.

5. This "reinforce to" order applies to newly created division counters in a province, instead of the trickles of (thousands to low tens of thousands of) soldiers originating from the national draft pool. AI decides which units it will send the newly trained soldiers to; it will reinforce, first of all, those units with depots to draw on. If there is no depot or those units with supply are full, then those on garrision duty gets reinforced. Distance of units from the capital is also one of the determinants.

6. Clearly, there is scope for enhancement.

7. If you are awash with gold, build depots where you have high numbers - say 100k - of soldiers. When you are going to fight, make sure there is a depot nearby so your men can fight best. When you worry about your corps' strength, give them a depot so they can get reinforcements sooner. Be cautious about provinces with frequent winter bites. I recommend you get your men trained on "Organised Foraging" as soon as possible, as it will halve the losses to failed foraging efforts.

8. I stick to quick battles.

I hope these will help.

(in reply to Tigleth Pilisar)

Post #: 25

RE: How do you play? - 10/3/2005 7:29:59 AM

Naomi

Posts: 654
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Osaka
Status: offline

Oh, Ral's response trumps mine.

(in reply to Naomi)

Post #: 26

RE: How do you play? - 10/3/2005 7:49:28 AM

Azog

Posts: 64
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline

Just a coment, I just like it this way. I hate all theese games where people just have to maximize everything, make the big ball and conquer every corner. I think this unknown parts give some chaotic feature that resembles quite good what happens in a nation at war. Where are those billions go for restoring Iraq, for example?

War is chaos.

(in reply to Naomi)

Post #: 27

RE: How do you play? - 10/3/2005 8:27:38 AM

Naomi

Posts: 654
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Osaka
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Azog

Just a coment, I just like it this way. I hate all theese games where people just have to maximize everything, make the big ball and conquer every corner. I think this unknown parts give some chaotic feature that resembles quite good what happens in a nation at war. Where are those billions go for restoring Iraq, for example?

War is chaos.

Is there any war-cum-grand-strategy game not aimed at, nor involved with, big-ball making (in your sense)? I'd love to expand my scope of view.

(in reply to Azog)

Post #: 28

RE: How do you play? - 10/3/2005 11:43:56 AM

Ralegh

Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Naomi
4. Prisoners of war can help in besieging efforts, provided that there are non-POW units acting in cooperation. Playing France in 1805, telling Spain to go to Gibratar and sending POWs there, you will see French casualties in start-of-month Events reports.

Good one Naomi!

Naomi is actually more correct than I - this is infact the behaviour in 1.1. It was a bug, and I believe (although I am not sure) that it is fixed in 1.2. (There are lots of POW fixes in 1.2 - for example, they dont cost to maintain and have a minimized effect on forage, and don't get freed all the time, and suffer a loss of morale (so when they are freed, they aren't as good), and a few other things.)
[I've played so much of the betas for 1.2 I'm starting to forget some of the worst bugs (which were fixed early int he beta cycle).]

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Naomi)

Post #: 29

RE: How do you play? - 10/3/2005 1:49:55 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

LOL
know what you mean :)

at times, I am not sure if I should reply to a question, as I am not sure if what I am seeing is from the beta or from the game

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(in reply to Ralegh)

Post #: 30