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RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japanese?

 
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RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/25/2005 3:44:24 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk
IMO, the toughest european language to learn is hungarian....



And what about Finnish?


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S.
I have two good friends - one is Finnish and one is Hungarian. Although their laguages are similar to outside observer (and those two are the only ones in so called Hungaro-Finnish language group) - they were unable to understand eachother ehen speaking in their native langages (they both had one Croatian parent and one from Finland / Hungary).

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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to pauk)
Post #: 61
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/25/2005 3:51:17 PM   
BossGnome

 

Posts: 658
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		ooh, tomo we actually have a native japanese speaker here? Actually you are correct japanese is a bitch when the old damn people use Keigo, or speak in their own dialects (osaka dialect being the largest one). I was talking about the standard "Tokyoite" japanese... I'll stick with finishing my learning of that for now.

_____________________________

"Hard pressed on my right; my left is in retreat. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
-Gen. Joffre, before the battle of the Marne

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 62
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/25/2005 3:58:11 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk
IMO, the toughest european language to learn is hungarian....



And what about Finnish?


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S.
I have two good friends - one is Finnish and one is Hungarian. Although their laguages are similar to outside observer (and those two are the only ones in so called Hungaro-Finnish language group) - they were unable to understand eachother ehen speaking in their native langages (they both had one Croatian parent and one from Finland / Hungary).


also Estonian. The language group composed of those 3 is known as the Finno-Ugric.

< Message edited by 11Bravo -- 9/25/2005 4:02:09 PM >

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Post #: 63
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/25/2005 7:24:18 PM   
jay102

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 8/15/2005
Status: offline 		Chinese is a language for poetry and literature. No strict grammar, no tense, no word gender, you have plenty of freedom to weave it in your own style.

(in reply to 11Bravo)
Post #: 64
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/26/2005 11:18:11 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		You want a hard language to learn? Try the Southern Drawl from my home state of Lousiana. I think any translating program would self destruct trying to translate it into a normal language. When I left Lousiana for Marine boot camp training in San Diego back in 85' no one and I mean no one could understand a word I was saying, and these were people that had English as their primary language

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Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 65
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/26/2005 11:20:13 AM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

Posts: 1359
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Gdansk
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 11Bravo
also Estonian. The language group composed of those 3 is known as the Finno-Ugric.


Well, group is composed with more small languages... many of them are used by native tribes of Urals: Voguls, Ostiaks, Mordvians, Tscheremises, Votiaks, Zyrians... also Lapanian is listed as different from Finnish.




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Post #: 66
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/26/2005 8:03:34 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		I studied Japanese in college for three semesters. I was able to get by in Japan with only a few problems. Once you get out of the big cities and the tourist hotels you won't find anyone who speaks English. They all study it in school but they only concentrate on the reading and writing because that is the only part on the college entrance tests.

These days I study Chinese (Mandarin). I started about a year and a half ago because all of my co-workers are Chinese. This past June I married a girl that I had met in China in 2003. She is Gongdongren (Bl) which means she speaks Cantonese as well as Mandarin. The funny thing is that now I've forgotten all of my Japanese. It's like my brain has a switch inside with only two settings: English and Other. Other used to be Japanese but now it is Mandarin. :(

By the way, Kanji in Mandarin are called Hanzi. Literally, characters of the Han.

(in reply to Monter_Trismegistos)
Post #: 67
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/26/2005 9:51:00 PM   
Zebedee


Posts: 535
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		Some of the readings of the name 'Japan' by Chinese people are quite funny.

To them, Japanese translates as '**** me'.
日-本人

Japanese defence force translates as 'self-pleasuring team'

自慰队

(No offence to anyone intended - just noting some funny language quirks. Like the English calling me (a Welshman) 'Slave'!)

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 68
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/26/2005 10:35:38 PM   
Lord_Calidor


Posts: 402
Joined: 3/25/2005
From: Rijeka, CRO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zebedee
Some of the readings of the name 'Japan' by Chinese people are quite funny.
To them, Japanese translates as '**** me'.
-{l


Oh my. I had this thing on my car for some time (guess it caused a comment or two from Chinese passers-by):





Attachment (1)

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But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage.

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Post #: 69
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/26/2005 10:39:58 PM   
Zebedee


Posts: 535
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		To me that looks like "wood moon".

Like the alloys btw.

< Message edited by Zebedee -- 9/26/2005 10:43:07 PM >

(in reply to Lord_Calidor)
Post #: 70
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/26/2005 11:27:12 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

I took 3rd year Spanish and 1st year German at the same time in high school. Major mistake... "Jawohl, senor! no, no that's not it.... Si, mein Herr!, no, that's not it either.... eins, zwei, tres, cuatro, funf... Is that it?"


I hear ya. Had 4 years of German and 1 of Spanish, plus a decent amount of practicing Spanish at work with Mexican co-workers. Si, ich kann espanol!


(in reply to Zebedee)
Post #: 71
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 9:27:31 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		This is a question to all of you players that have English as a 2nd language. How the heck did you learn to write it so fluently? I mean, seriously, the grammer is flawless with you guys. I am impressed.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to BossGnome)
Post #: 72
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 10:07:55 AM   
patrickl


Posts: 1530
Joined: 6/20/2002
From: Singapore
Status: offline 		Hi ilovestrategy
quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

This is a question to all of you players that have English as a 2nd language. How the heck did you learn to write it so fluently? I mean, seriously, the grammer is flawless with you guys. I am impressed.


Singapore inherited the British system of govt and the best part of is besides its disdain for corruption but also the British English education system where exams in English for conducted for almost all subjects. If you don't do well in exams (in English) .. you are almost condemned to a life of blue collar worker and that is the bottom of the social classes! The rat race

< Message edited by patrickl -- 9/27/2005 10:15:43 AM >

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Post #: 73
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 1:18:40 PM   
Mattremote

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I speak English!

Reasonable at French, but I learned in Belgium and West Africa, so my strange accent causes metropolitan French speakers to look at me with an expression that I can only interpret as overwhelming awe and respect.

Also some Urdu, which is basically Hindi written in Persian Arabic. Learning Urdu was the result of a naive career move by a person much younger and stupider than I am (now). I used to be able to read a newspaper and converse with reasonable fluency, but have thankfully lost much of it.

(in reply to patrickl)
Post #: 74
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 2:59:05 PM   
BossGnome

 

Posts: 658
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		put it this way: we non-native english speakers don't understand why native english speakers can't seem to learn another language as well as we can learn english! I learned english when I was 10 by the way, don't quite remember how it happened, I just remember after about a year of english classes I tried to read an english book and couldn't understand it, took 2 more years of classes, took up the same english book and read it no problem. Seriously its just a matter of concentrating long enough. Don't know whats so amazing about it...

zeebee, you learned your japanese where did you say? (and yes that would be wood moon, hehe!) And if the "hanzi" have the same meaning (which I think they do) in both chinese and japanese, how come "day book person" means "**** me" in chinese? Can you explain this one?

_____________________________

"Hard pressed on my right; my left is in retreat. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
-Gen. Joffre, before the battle of the Marne

(in reply to Mattremote)
Post #: 75
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 3:28:26 PM   
Zebedee


Posts: 535
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		I taught English in Japan for several months. Keep it 'fresh' by playing online games with Japanese gamers, but nowhere near fluent. (I'm first language Welsh, second language English, have French at degree level and German at A-level and cannot say a single sensible sentence in any of them ).

I'm not Chinese so I cannot explain why the translation works out like that, sorry. It just translates how it translates. When I first learnt the meaning in Chinese, I thought it was some lingering anti-Japanese thing from this century but I was assured that is not the case and it is a lot older than that (hence why I mentioned Welsh coming from 'Wealh' meaning 'slave').

When my gf gets in will ask her and see if she knows the answer.

(in reply to BossGnome)
Post #: 76
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 3:40:14 PM   
Burzmali

 

Posts: 312
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Boston
Status: offline 		It could be how you say it... Ni and Hon aren't very rare in Japanese. I still can't figure out how anyone understands spoken Japanese at all, the shear number of homonyms boggles the mind.

(in reply to BossGnome)
Post #: 77
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 3:50:48 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Hi all,

I just remember having met a lot of non-native English speakers and they say that the verbs and vocbulary differences were hard to fathom and remember/understand.

Over recent years I have begun to think that us Englanders are a bit lazy when it comes to Language learning. Apparently in schools the % of pupils studying a foreign language is declining more and more!

I used to be able to get by in French and if I was over there I would understand a word or 2 in most sentences. I've forgotten most of it now unfortunately. I do like languages but I think the key is to keep practising/using them.

Steven

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Post #: 78
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 5:03:19 PM   
Lord_Calidor


Posts: 402
Joined: 3/25/2005
From: Rijeka, CRO
Status: offline 		English is a piece of cake compared to Slavic languages. After 31 yrs speaking Croatian, sometimes I think I speak English even better than my own language.

_____________________________

But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage.

(in reply to Speedysteve)
Post #: 79
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 5:13:35 PM   
patrickl


Posts: 1530
Joined: 6/20/2002
From: Singapore
Status: offline 		Hi Lord_Calidor,

Sigh, that is true for my family. My 12 year old daughter don't even speak my Chinese dialect (Hainanese - of Hainan Island).

Cheers
Patrick


_____________________________


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(in reply to Lord_Calidor)
Post #: 80
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 7:21:25 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

we non-native english speakers don't understand why native english speakers can't seem to learn another language as well as we can learn english!


At least here in America, we don't get the chance to learn another language until high school (14-18 years old) at the very earliest. Even then, it is highly unlikely that the instructor is a native speaker. The earlier one starts, the easier it is.

IMO, there is no reason that every kid in the industrialized world can't be taught English, Spanish and Chinese from the very beginning of their education. That would cover, what, 80% of the world's population?

(in reply to patrickl)
Post #: 81
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 7:55:16 PM   
Zebedee


Posts: 535
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		Bossgnome - I got this explanation from gf. First character can mean 'intercourse'and is used commonly as such even now to avoid filters. Second and third characters in combination mean 'me'.

As to how, when and why - I remain as ignorant as ever

< Message edited by Zebedee -- 9/27/2005 7:56:04 PM >

(in reply to BossGnome)
Post #: 82
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 10:29:04 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

At least here in America, we don't get the chance to learn another language until high school (14-18 years old) at the very earliest. Even then, it is highly unlikely that the instructor is a native speaker. The earlier one starts, the easier it is.


A second language isn't even a graduation requirement in a lot of high schools anymore. When I graduated (way back when) 2 years of a foreign language was required. My Spnish teacher was a 25 year old female who learned Spanish in school. My German teacher was cool though. He was a ground mechanic in the Luftwaffe during the war. He was captured in northern France by the Brits just before Market Garden when his airfield was overrun. He had some very interesting stories to tell!

Most high schools at least offer Spanish as a choice but German is becoming increasingly to find. French has all but disappeared from most of the smaller schools. Forget any of the Asian languages. I don't know of a single high school around here that offers them. In fact, the local college here only offers Spanish and German. I think you have to pretty much get to the university level before having any significant language choices.

Chez

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(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 83
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/27/2005 11:11:23 PM   
Wolfie1

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 12/22/2004
From: Blackpool, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

At least here in America, we don't get the chance to learn another language until high school (14-18 years old) at the very earliest. Even then, it is highly unlikely that the instructor is a native speaker. The earlier one starts, the easier it is.


A second language isn't even a graduation requirement in a lot of high schools anymore. When I graduated (way back when) 2 years of a foreign language was required. My Spnish teacher was a 25 year old female who learned Spanish in school. My German teacher was cool though. He was a ground mechanic in the Luftwaffe during the war. He was captured in northern France by the Brits just before Market Garden when his airfield was overrun. He had some very interesting stories to tell!

Most high schools at least offer Spanish as a choice but German is becoming increasingly to find. French has all but disappeared from most of the smaller schools. Forget any of the Asian languages. I don't know of a single high school around here that offers them. In fact, the local college here only offers Spanish and German. I think you have to pretty much get to the university level before having any significant language choices.

Chez


I think I would have really enjoyed your German lessons

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Post #: 84
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/28/2005 12:31:55 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
My German professor in college was in the Hitler Youth and fought in the Ruhr near the end of the war as a teenager. He wouldn't talk about it. Not that I blame him, but it would have been interesting to hear that perspective.

(in reply to Wolfie1)
Post #: 85
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/28/2005 6:23:06 AM   
Tomo


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: JAPAN
Status: offline
quote:


To them, Japanese translates as '**** me'.
-

Japanese defence force translates as 'self-pleasuring team'
ο


pu..Silly and funny

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Post #: 86
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/28/2005 1:43:26 PM   
BossGnome

 

Posts: 658
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		actually I don't mean to insult anyone, but I must agree with Speedy, maybe english speakers are a littly lazy. In canada French is required until 10th grade, but it is still amazing to see how few people who graduate from those classes (and I mean like 6 years of french!) actually speak the darn language. It really disgusts me when I look on the other side of the banner, and I see all those quebecers who are near fluent in english by the time they graduate. It is not so much lack of skill as lack of good attitude that prevents the english canadians from learning french. They tell themselves,"why should I bother learning french? Only a bunch of frogs speak it anyways, the whole world should speak english, and then we'd have no problem!" Its such near-mindedness and self-satisfaction that, as a native french speaker, really disgusts me, and really makes me hope quebec separates from the rest of canada.
On the other hand, you can't really blame the americans, if you don't have a chance to study a foreign language, how are you supposed to learn one? But then again, whose fault is it that foreign languages aren't required anymore? Heck, just do like you always do and blame it on the bush administration...

_____________________________

"Hard pressed on my right; my left is in retreat. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
-Gen. Joffre, before the battle of the Marne

(in reply to Tomo)
Post #: 87
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/28/2005 9:00:51 PM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		I took a dead language at Jesuit in high school..........it was either French, Spanish or Latin.................I went with Latin....et tu Brute!

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Post #: 88
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/29/2005 5:51:01 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

On the other hand, you can't really blame the americans, if you don't have a chance to study a foreign language, how are you supposed to learn one? But then again, whose fault is it that foreign languages aren't required anymore? Heck, just do like you always do and blame it on the bush administration...


Americans are definitely a bit lazy when it comes to learning languages. I find languages fascinating myself, and enjoy learning them. It was how I got into computers. Nonetheless, it is a stereotype based in fact that English speakers feel they can get by without learning other languages because so many do speak it to some extent.

Maybe we should blame the British?

The lack of language education in American schools is directly related to the sad state of our primary and secondary educational systems, as well as a dearth of qualified instructors willing to teach at those levels.

Curiousity question for Bossgnome: how different is Quebecois (sp?) from standard French? Can you converse with people from France?

(in reply to captskillet)
Post #: 89
RE: Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japan... - 9/29/2005 6:58:48 AM   
BossGnome

 

Posts: 658
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		um, a lot of british actually speak decent french it turns out. Not as bad as canadians or americans. And Mynok (cool name btw), qubecois is actually not that different from standard french. It is spoken with a different accent, and has a few different words, but I'd say qubecois has less than 200 words that are proper to it. In almost all respects it is like standard french. Most of the typically qubecois words are curses...

_____________________________

"Hard pressed on my right; my left is in retreat. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
-Gen. Joffre, before the battle of the Marne

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 90
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