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Jap TF stops mid-mission....AAARGGGHHH

 
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Jap TF stops mid-mission....AAARGGGHHH - 9/28/2005 1:25:22 AM   
Slaughtermeyer


Posts: 156
Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		August 1942 campaign, Japs vs. AI, historical first turn, 1.60. After the historical first turn is finished, make a surface combat TF in Rabaul with all your CA, CL, and DD except those four with endurance 3000. Destination Lunga, retirement allowed, do not refuel, mission speed. After the first turn, it will move to Shortlands (it docks there but undocking it doesn't seem to make any difference). On the second turn, it will stay there and do absolutely nothing. At first I thought it might have made it to Lunga, found nothing there and returned, but its fuel (and Shortlands fuel) stays at the same level. Its destination still says Lunga too.

Ironically, if instead the TF is ordered to Tulagi from the very beginning instead of Lunga, it goes there (but not via Shortlands), has combat, and retires as expected. I really hope I did not find a game-breaking bug.

< Message edited by Slaughtermeyer -- 9/28/2005 2:48:15 AM >

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We must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,for our position is that no grievances or policies will justify resort to aggressive war.It is utterly renounced and condemned as an instrument of policy. R.Jackson,1945
Post #: 1
RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/28/2005 1:42:49 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		What happens if you leave orders as is and let it run one more turn? Do they proceed?

(in reply to Slaughtermeyer)
Post #: 2
RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/28/2005 2:02:13 AM   
Slaughtermeyer


Posts: 156
Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		No, they're stuck there the turn after also with the same endurance, maybe they'll be stuck there forever. I haven't tested more than two turns of movement freeze.

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Post #: 3
RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/28/2005 3:39:13 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have never seen a TF hold up more than a turn with retirement orders. My assumption here is that something in the routine with retirement allowed is the culprate here.

What happens with patrol orders? What about changing the home base or approaching Lunga from the north? Are there enemy forces detected at Lunga? What is the Aggression rating of the leader?

(in reply to Slaughtermeyer)
Post #: 4
RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/28/2005 3:54:20 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		I have seen this a few times ... try checking the "air #" on the target base ... if it is a friendly base and the total is negative .. then the TF may be afraid it will be air struck ...

I got around the problem in one case by switching to patrol orders ( which says - head in anyway - even if you get sunk ) ... but in the other case am trying to regroup my TFs to make them bigger ...

The one with BBs went it ... the one with no BB just sat ...

I've never noticed it before the past few turns .. but now it is happening to mutliple TFs ... but they are all in an area with the enemy has air superiority over my forward bases ( based on looking at the air # ) ...



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RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/28/2005 5:44:01 AM   
Slaughtermeyer


Posts: 156
Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

I have seen this a few times ... try checking the "air #" on the target base ... if it is a friendly base and the total is negative .. then the TF may be afraid it will be air struck ...

Yes, after doing some additional testing it appears the air superiority number has something to do with it. I first tried switching to head-to-head in a saved game in which the Japs were already stuck on Shortlands (the air #was 128), and ordered the American carriers out of the area. I waited a few turns but the Japs were still stuck. I then tried head to head beginning from right after the historical move and ordered the American carriers out of the area. At that point, the air #was over 300 (and stayed that way). The Japanese TF did not get stuck in that trial, they performed exactly as one would expect.

Another important factor, when the TF was stuck, I could create a new TF out of it and order it to attack Tulagi, and it would do so. Tulagi had an air # of over 200, so maybe 200 is the magic threshold number for allowing surface combat TF movement.

When the TF was stuck, its endurance remained the same turn after turn. It was not docked, and Shortlands was not losing fuel. I thought that ships that are stationary still use endurance to run their generators, etc?



_____________________________

We must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,for our position is that no grievances or policies will justify resort to aggressive war.It is utterly renounced and condemned as an instrument of policy. R.Jackson,1945

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 6
RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/28/2005 9:58:32 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		I tried ( long ago in an early game) to send DM's to mine Guadalcanal, they would get with in one move and rfuse to approach. Rabual was enemy held and had aircraft, but nothing farther south. Surface combat task forces would go there, just not the minelaying one.

(in reply to Slaughtermeyer)
Post #: 7
RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/28/2005 1:47:43 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		I have had this same happen to me. Some TFs just get stuck and won't move until I re-assign them. Usually changing the destination to home base and pressing return to home base works best for me. AndBombardment TFs tend to get stuck too until I change them to "Patrol/Do not Retire... If I leave them to Retirement Allowed they often get stuck, even when accompanied by large Air Combat TF.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 9/28/2005 1:49:54 PM >

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 8
RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/29/2005 3:33:13 AM   
Slaughtermeyer


Posts: 156
Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I've done some additional testing and I've determined that the air balance number alone will not determine whether or not a TF freezes. In the Aug. 1942 campaign, I made both a surface combat and minelaying TF in Tokyo and gave them a destination of Bonin which has an air balance # of 87, which is lower than Lunga's 128 when US carriers are in the area. Both missions worked exactly as they should have. Maybe US carriers have to actually be present in the area (even though they have not been spotted) in order for the task force to freeze, it apparently can detect those carriers using psychic powers.

I also tried sending the TF from Rabaul 1 hex SW of Shortlands before ordering it to Lunga and it got stuck there too.



_____________________________

We must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,for our position is that no grievances or policies will justify resort to aggressive war.It is utterly renounced and condemned as an instrument of policy. R.Jackson,1945

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 9
RE: Jap TF stops mid-mission - 9/29/2005 5:35:59 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Well this coorelates to my scenario - as there are US carriers camping in the AO as well. The carrier piece probably also explains why I hadn't seen this phenomena previously .. as I'm sure I've encountered enemy air superiority over forward bases before .. though not the "freeze" problem ... hum this also gives us another way to detect enemy carriers !!! ( looking for the silver lining )

So good work ... Sir Sherlock - The Frozen Task Force Mystery is solved !





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(in reply to Slaughtermeyer)
Post #: 10
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