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Disbanded groups double dipping, intended?

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Tech Support >> Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? Page: [1]
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Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 1:51:27 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have noticed something odd in with disbanded units and planes in the replacement pool and was wondering if others have and if this was intended.

Last turn a disbanded group returned to the map and it reduced my aircraft pool by the number of planes in the group but had no aircraft in it when it arrived on the map. So effectively it will take 18 planes to fill out a 9 plane group.

I just noticed this on my last turn as my pool of Zeros is in a critical state. I was watching it very carefully as I had a partial group listed as “organizing” for sometime and was trying to figure out why. I do not know if this happens all the time, but I suspect it does as it would explain why my Zero and Betty pools are critical.

Perhaps others can see if this is happening to their disbanded groups. I can check back through my saves as well and confirm if has happened before.

It smells a lot like a bug to me, but perhaps I am overlooking some logic in doing it this way. Like discouraging disbandment of units, or trying to represent the costs of reorganizing air groups.

If important, the details of my game are as follows.

I am playing a PBEM campaign game as the Japanese. This game is a standard scenario 15 one day turns and was started under 1.4 recently upgraded to 1.5, the date is May 9th.

I have many disbanded Zero groups returning to the map recently as I was overly zealous converting Claudes and trying to preserve my pilot pool early in the campaign. I think all the groups I disbanded were divided before hand and are coming back in partial groups.

I have all the game saves and can provide them if needed.
Post #: 1
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 2:25:45 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have confirmed this is not an isolated event. I have run a the most recent turn and had 36 previously disbanded Vals returned with 0 aircraft and 36 Vals have been deducted from my replacement pool.

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 2
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 7:47:51 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have gone back though my saves and confirmed that disbanded airgroups have always been working this way in my game.

I would be interested to hear if this is the same for others or if it is just this game.

A point that may be of some importance is that I always have replacements turned off for units and turn them on only when I specifically want them to receive replacements. So any units I disbanded would have had replacements turned off. If others are not seeing this double dipping perhaps the replacements off when they were disbanded is causing my problem.

Any opinions, I could use some help. My aircraft pools are being evaporated.

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 3
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 8:05:03 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		I have noticed that you have three consecutive posts that begin with the words, "I have."

I have not previously noticed you to be so possessive.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 4
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 8:07:48 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DFalcon
It smells a lot like a bug to me

I won't inquire after the source of your experience in bug smelling.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 5
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 8:17:54 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have not noticed I do that.

You never smelled a bug?

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 6
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 8:52:04 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		The problem is that you're trying to continue playing a game after patching to v. 1.50. As I look around the forum, I note that almost everyone doing so is getting weird results.

The only people getting weirder results are the ones starting new games under v. 1.50.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 7
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 3:19:37 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		It is not just a 1.5 issue.

I went back through my saves (I have every save file from the start of the game) looking for this and found it had occured before the patch.

I found a save with a group of Nates that was due to return done back in March. Nates were a good find as I have the Nate factory halted. The unit returned with 0 aircraft and the pool was reduced by 12. To insure this was not done by the execution in 1.5 I went to the next days save. The pool was down a further 12 planes and the Nate group had filled out.

I would be interested to hear from some one who also disbands squadrons and see if the double dipping is happening to them. If not, do they have replacements turned on or off.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 8
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/10/2005 3:36:32 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		It might be worth while to send the save and details to Mr.Frag.

It might explain the "disappearing aircraft" that a few people said were happening to land based groups, but could not provide a save for.

[The naval side of this issue (replacing/upgrading groups on sunk ships) was fixed in 1.5]

Michael

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 9
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/11/2005 1:34:27 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		All my saves are available and I can send the information and saves if requested. I don't want to send them unsolicited. I can do before and after saves and will do some more searching for occurances. I would have to talk to my opponent if his password is needed.

So far every instance I have checked does the same thing, reduces the aircraft pool and places the unit on the map with no aircraft, doubling the number of planes needed to bring the disbanded unit back. Since it happens 100% of the time I am a little confused as to why others are not noticing it. Although it did take me two or three months.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 10
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/11/2005 1:39:09 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		The save sending process is to send to a special email address ( which is documented and which Mr Frag monitors ) and you send your password and have your opponent send his password ... that way nothing becomes "public" ... I've done it ... it is painless ... and my problem got solved with 30 minutes !!!

When you send the save - give it the same SUBJECT has the post to the bug sub-form thread.






_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 11
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/11/2005 5:59:44 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Painless for who?

_____________________________


(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 12
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/12/2005 6:51:40 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Painless for who?


I believe he meant "painless" in the same way your dentist means "painless"

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 13
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/12/2005 3:12:03 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		I can not find any information on where to send a save, would some one point me in the right direction, please?

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 14
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/12/2005 3:33:39 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		look under the cat & mouse

_____________________________


(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 15
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/14/2005 7:07:23 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		Saves have been sent.

Please let me know if you need anything from me in way of explanation or follow up.

Thank you

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 16
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/14/2005 8:01:29 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DFalcon

Saves have been sent.

Please let me know if you need anything from me in way of explanation or follow up.

Thank you



Nope, great detail with a nice string of saves showing your point. What a job? Pays nothing and eats 168 hours of your personal time a week

_____________________________


(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 17
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/14/2005 10:08:50 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		Great.

I am still working through another test to see if I can determine if replacements on or off effects the double dipping. I'll let you know.

Thank you, your efforts are very much appreciated, it is hell of a game.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 18
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 5/20/2005 5:24:51 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		This bug only hits the Japanese, disbanded planes cost double to replace only for them.

I just completed a test for this bug. I started a new game Version 1.5 PBEM playing both sides. I disbanded four groups on each side, two with replacements set ON and two with replacements set OFF. I then ran through 90 turns and observed the results. All the groups returned to the map with (0) planes. The Allied aircraft pools had not been reduced, but the Japanese pools had all been reduced by the number of planes in the returning groups. (saves available if wanted)

If you disband groups regularly as the Japanese you will want to adjust your production to account for this additional drain on your pools.

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 19
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 9/24/2005 4:26:19 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		I am very disappointed to see that this bug is still in Version 1.6. At least in my ongoing PBEM game it still is.

Has anyone out there got a fresh start on a 1.6 game that they could check for this bug?

Not sure I can muster the energy to start a new test game and run it though 90 turns again. I don't expect it will get fixed at this point but it would be nice to know if I was starting a new game.

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 20
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 9/24/2005 5:41:06 PM   
durnedwolf


Posts: 885
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: USA
Status: offline 		Dude - I just want to thank you for your efforts in tracking down the bug. That's been bumming me out 4 awhile - I just thought it the loss of planes happened on both sides (I've expereienced it too often playing Japan).

My solution was to stop disbanding air units as the waste in production was bumming me out.

Again - thanks for documenting this and putting so much effort into it. I certaintly appreciate it!

_____________________________


DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 21
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 9/24/2005 11:22:46 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		Believe me it was bumming me out too. I was running production close to the vest and was a big fan of disbanding groups. I found myself in a desprate way early in 42. I came to the same concusion you did, I just stopped disbanding. However when 1.6 came out with this bug listed as fixed I started disbanding again. It will be easier to cover this time as my production has a lot more wiggle now.

Since we are not likely to see more work done on the game and this bug is still out there I though I would pass along the information. If I get the bee in my bonnet I'll start a fresh test with 1.6 and see if it is an artifact bug, but if I was a gambling man (and I am) I would put money on 'not fixed'.

< Message edited by DFalcon -- 9/24/2005 11:24:49 PM >

(in reply to durnedwolf)
Post #: 22
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 9/28/2005 3:31:14 PM   
Slaughtermeyer


Posts: 156
Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DFalcon
I don't expect it will get fixed at this point but it would be nice to know if I was starting a new game.

One of the developers of War Plan Orange claimed that it will be released with all the known major WiTP bugs fixed, so maybe there's a chance this bug will eventually be fixed for WiTP too.

< Message edited by Slaughtermeyer -- 9/28/2005 3:32:50 PM >

_____________________________

We must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,for our position is that no grievances or policies will justify resort to aggressive war.It is utterly renounced and condemned as an instrument of policy. R.Jackson,1945

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 23
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 9/28/2005 3:55:28 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		Very true, there is always hope. The level of support for this game is remarkable.

(in reply to Slaughtermeyer)
Post #: 24
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 9/30/2005 1:06:44 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Hi
Happens in new game under 1.602
I have sent a save showing problem.
Will need to wait and see what eventuates.

Michael

< Message edited by michaelm -- 9/30/2005 1:09:07 PM >

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 25
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 9/30/2005 3:50:01 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks Michaelm, you saved me more than a few mouse clicks.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 26
RE: Disbanded groups double dipping, intended? - 10/3/2005 12:24:30 AM   
WiTP_Dude


Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I concur - this bug exist.

_____________________________


________________________________________
I feal so dirty when I sink convoys with 4E bombers, makes porn feal wholsome. - Brady, Founding Member of the Japanese Fanboy Club

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 27
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