How bad does the AI cheat?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

How bad does the AI cheat?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> How bad does the AI cheat?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

How bad does the AI cheat? - 10/2/2005 7:59:37 PM

GoofTrooper

Posts: 54
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: USA
Status: offline

I am playing as the Japanese vs. the AI in scen4 and I am having difficulty dealing with his planes out of Port Moresby. He is using large number of level bombers to bomb my task forces landing at Buna and Gili Gili and his escorting fighters are doing a little too good IMHO. It would seem that while even outnumbered he is getting a 2-to-1 kill ratio against my A6m2�s. To compensate I placed most of my fighters at Lae to do fighter sweeps and lost almost half of my fighters on the first sweep. My fighter sqdns all have exp around 70+ and 99 morale with little or no fatigue and I wanted to see what he was doing different. I saved my game and loaded as Allies and took a look at PM. He has a 250 Aviation Sup Requirement with only 67 AV sup in place and is low on supply, and all of his fighter units are around 50-60 exp with morale in the 50�s! I would like to know how he could use all of his planes without the required support? While I�ve said before that I thought the Zero was generally overrated, these results seem a little ridiculous. It wasn�t just a fluke as this was a restarted scenario because of the same problem. I can send the save game if anyone wants to look at it (Devs or Mods especially).

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/15/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Port Moresby , at 53,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 43
A6M3 Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 12
P-39D Airacobra x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 20 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 7 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 3 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Gili Gili , at 56,94

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 9
Hudson I x 10
Beaufort V-IX x 6
A-20B Boston x 18
B-25C Mitchell x 9
B-26B Marauder x 22

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Hudson I bombing at 18000 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 17000 feet
9 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 10000 feet
6 x A-20B Boston bombing at 16000 feet
6 x A-20B Boston bombing at 11000 feet
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 19000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 19000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 18000 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 17000 feet
13 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20B Boston bombing at 16000 feet
3 x A-20B Boston bombing at 11000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 53,92

Japanese Ships
SS I-22

Allied Ships
AP Manoora, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

< Message edited by GoofTrooper -- 10/2/2005 8:01:44 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: How bad does the AI cheat? - 10/2/2005 8:17:20 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline

HI Gooftrooper,
Yes, the AI cheats, but it depends on the difficulty settings just HOW MUCH it cheats.
As you are relativly new to the game, the AI seems TOUGH, but in 6 months (real time) you will kick it's ass with two fingers up your nose on VERY HARD.....

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to GoofTrooper)

Post #: 2

RE: How bad does the AI cheat? - 10/2/2005 8:46:51 PM

cookie monster

Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline

What altitude was the fighter sweep at?

Oh yeah and how much Zero bonus still applies?

< Message edited by cookie monster -- 10/2/2005 8:48:25 PM >

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 3

RE: How bad does the AI cheat? - 10/2/2005 10:39:37 PM

GoofTrooper

Posts: 54
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: USA
Status: offline

Thank you for your replies. I wouldn�t consider myself a new player as I have been playing UV for almost 5 years (and witp since it came out, on and off anyway). I have been waiting to tackle the Grand Campaign only after it was patched enough so I wouldn�t have to restart. I thought I�d give one of the smaller scenarios a go, just to see how things went. I am playing Ver. 1.602 with difficulty set to historical. In the combat results I posted, my fighters ran their sweep at 15,000 Feet and the AI was 10,000 although it doesn�t seem to make a difference as I�ve tried other altitudes. Most of his fighters are P39D�s or P-40E�s (or Kittyhawk I�s) which are supposed to have 1 point taken off their maneuver for each 1,000 feet above 10,000 which is why I set the altitude for 15 and did a sweep as they would climb to intercept as opposed to fighting them as CAP where I would have to change altitude to intercept. I don�t mind the AI cheating, but this is absurd. He doesn�t have to follow support limits, supply limits, and even if outnumbered, at an altitude disadvantage with somewhat inferior planes and pilots he can destroy half of my fighters and suffer 50% less losses? I am sure there is a gamey way to fight this but that defeats the whole point of playing this type of game. I truly do hope the Dev�s can change the AI behavior so that he has to follow aviation support and supply limits. I am going to rerun the scen at ver 1.6 or further back and see if it makes any difference. I remember the challenge of defending PM while playing as the allies in UV. The decision to put more fighters and bombers on PM is a huge one as the shipping requirements go up significantly (not to mention you have to move Aviation Support units) and your fighters aren�t yet capable of defending head on against the Japanese from Rabaul, putting all of your AK�s AP�s at risk as they unload. The AI doesn�t seem to have to make that decision as he can dump as many planes as he wants without supply or support, use them all, and have superior results irregardless of the tactical situation. I don�t think it�s too much to ask if I say that this is too much cheating and the AI should be forced to follow the aviation support rules. Otherwise what�s the point of playing? I only play single player as I know I can�t meet the time requirements for a MP commitment (that�s why I don�t have a lot of posts). Anyway, I have to admit that I am very disappointed if this is how things truly are and I really hope the devs would consider fixing it. I don�t mind a dumb AI; I don�t mind a cheating AI (i.e. unfair intel) but not having to follow the logistic system? THAT (shipping) is the whole point of the game and the war. If the AI doesn�t have to follow logistics in order to use his airpower, then he doesn�t have to maintain shipping (i.e. expose), which really boils down to gamey strategies as the only option. For me there is no fun playing a game like this if I know that I have to play gamey to counter cheating.

P.S. It is 5/14/42+- so the Zero bonus is almost gone. I am not saying they should be uber, I am complaining because the AI has more planes then he can support at PM, and I outnumber him tactically and I am still losing. Historically, the loss rate for the Zero in Operation MO was not 2-1 but 1.25+- to 1 roughly (in favor of the allies). The zero was not the great fighter many think it is IMHO, but this is going way too far the other way. He (the AI) just decimated half of my land-based fighters when at most he should have gotten close to a 1 to 1 ratio. Now I have to reconstitute my fighters before moving any more shipping in to the area, as I can�t provide a sufficient CAP for them. I couldn�t anyway because of the kill ratio. That was why I stacked the deck and did the sweep, in order to cut down on the number and quality of the fighters so I could increase my fighter coverage in the theatre. Instead I got stomped on the first day and come to find it he was cheating anyway. If my fighters aren�t effective against his he can use his land-based bomber with impunity. Makes for a pointless game. Any suggestions are more then welcome. I don�t want to give up on WITP just yet, but I have to admit this is a show stopper for me.

< Message edited by GoofTrooper -- 10/2/2005 10:42:59 PM >

(in reply to cookie monster)

Post #: 4

RE: How bad does the AI cheat? - 10/2/2005 10:52:58 PM

saj42

Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoofTrooper

..... Most of his fighters are P39D�s or P-40E�s (or Kittyhawk I�s) which are supposed to have 1 point taken off their maneuver for each 1,000 feet above 10,000 which is why I set the altitude for 15 and did a sweep as they would climb to intercept as opposed to fighting them as CAP where I would have to change altitude to intercept.......

It's only the P-39 Aerocobra that has the penalty above 10,000ft - P-40s and Kittyhawks are not affected

_____________________________

Banner by rogueusmc

(in reply to GoofTrooper)

Post #: 5

RE: How bad does the AI cheat? - 10/2/2005 11:05:33 PM

GoofTrooper

Posts: 54
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: USA
Status: offline

Thanks for the clarification. I would think that the P-40 should have the same problem. I've read a number of places that it had a poor supercharger at altitude and while climbing. MG Charles Bond of the AVG complained about that in his book.

(in reply to saj42)

Post #: 6

RE: How bad does the AI cheat? - 10/3/2005 12:06:20 AM

BlackVoid

Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline

This game is really for PBEM. It is just too much effort to play it over 1 year to beat up a stupid program....

_____________________________

For Liberty! website

(in reply to GoofTrooper)

Post #: 7

RE: How bad does the AI cheat? - 10/3/2005 9:49:55 AM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

The number of AV support doesnt prevent aircraft from flying if below the amount of aircraft at the base. It will though prevent larger formations from recovering disabled or damaged aircraft.

Some one else should know better than I, but it seems , especially for the computer and to a lesser extent the Human player, that if you have 69 AV at the base it will keep most formations flying with reasonable recovery. It seems from experience, that the AV support is applied individually to each individual squadron or Group. Though the Human player is more penalized than the AI.

Also dont forget that the AI cheats on support. Every Airbase will allow one base or AV support unit to grow past the TO&E of the unit, to a size in relation to the size and usual usage of the base.

So that RAAF Base with only 30 AV, when run by the AI will grow as the base grows.

(in reply to GoofTrooper)

Post #: 8

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> How bad does the AI cheat?

Page: [1]