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NEW ARMY COmmercial - 2/13/2001 2:34:00 AM   
GeneralOberst Teufel

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/20/2000
From: Vine grove, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Any one have a comment on the new ARMY of ONE Commercial!!! As Retired US ARMY I have taken particular offense. The commercial shows a soldier running away from battle with no rank on his headgear, ID Tags swinging in the wind, no protective mask, no weapon, no uniform shirt showing rank or unit insignia ( I guess this is for when he surrenders or is captured they might not know who he is?? ) If you watch the commercial it shows him retreating the opposite direction soldiers with weapons, Bradleys, Helecopters all fully loaded and traveling toward battle. My 13 year old son picked it up the first time he saw the commercial he said "Dad look at that coward, he is running away from the battle, all the other soldiers are going in the opposite direction with weapons, what a Wimp" His comment floored me, I just had to watch the next time it came on TV and he was right... a 13 year old... Hmmmm I did a little further research, I live right by Ft. Knox KY my wife works for the US Army Recruiting command, they are also pissed off. The commercial was the Brain child of the outgoing Clinton Admin Army Chief of Staff. No consoltation with the US Army Recruiting command.. Now the US Army Recruiting command is having to spend Millions of our Tax $$ to re-promote Teamwork in upcomming ads to turn around the perception of Cowardice under fire.. I spoke to several NCO's at FT Knox. they are Pissed off Big Time... after all the years of promoting teamwork the US Army shows "ARMY OF ONE" a 180 degree turnaround from what the army is all about... I am not going to tell you what the USMC Gunny SGT's told me (they were laughing to hard..) I had one SFC tell me to have the Old Army Chief of Staff to bring his little Coward/Deserter from the commercial and meet him and a squad of Rangers at FT Irwin to see who would win. Team work or Army of One... he said at least he would give his soldiers weapons.... GeneralOberst Teufel

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- 2/13/2001 2:47:00 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		I am so GLAD Clinton gone! That is really unthinkable. David

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Post #: 2
- 2/14/2001 1:56:00 PM   
Randy

 

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline 		When I was in the Marines we were instilled in the concept of TEAMWORK!! This new Army concept along with everyone wearing a beret really sickens me. We need to create warriors and not some damn social project to make people feel good!! I hope we don't learn the hard way that this is a mistake. Semper Fi Randy

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Semper Fi
Randy

The United States Marines: America's 911 Force-The Tip of the Spear

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Post #: 3
- 2/14/2001 8:25:00 PM   
VictorH

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, U.S.
Status: offline 		It's amusing to see someone who goes by the name of "GeneralOberst - Teufel" complaining about a United States Army commercial. Guess this is just something else to blame Clinton for. Is this worse than selling weapons to a terrorist state to finance military operations forbidden by Congress?

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Post #: 4
- 2/15/2001 1:31:00 PM   
Ed Cogburn

 

Posts: 1979
Joined: 7/24/2000
From: Greeneville, Tennessee - GO VOLS!
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by VictorH: It's amusing to see someone who goes by the name of "GeneralOberst - Teufel" complaining about a United States Army commercial. Guess this is just something else to blame Clinton for. Is this worse than selling weapons to a terrorist state to finance military operations forbidden by Congress?
Heh, they've had so much fun harrassing Clinton for the last 8 years, they can't help themselves. They can't stop now even though he's gone. What'da say to another impeachment trial over the pardon thing? [This message has been edited by Ed Cogburn (edited February 15, 2001).]

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Post #: 5
- 2/19/2001 9:03:00 PM   
Yogi Yohan

 

Posts: 445
Joined: 7/28/2000
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline 		Sorry, I'm not getting the point of this commercial. What is it promoting? What is it trying to say?

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Post #: 6
- 2/20/2001 8:39:00 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		I havent seen this commercial myself, but being Canadian I likely wont unless wandering a US station (which most are actually). But considering the state of what a soldier is expected to do in this world during training, (well I expect to see most certainly a lot less out of them than you might have seen 60 years ago). I know personally how here in Canada the entrance training is powederpuff friendly. And then their is how yer US DI's cant even swear out a troop (makes a lot of expletives leap into my mind). Canada has enjoyed a grand history of volunteer warriors second to none in our past, but I am not willing to extend that to what we have today. And I am unwilling to extend it to the US as well. Todays military world enjoys to many doodads to much comfort and not enough soldiering. Aint no way in hell your army or mine could actually fight a WW2 grade battle. I mean people would actually get killed!!!! Heaven forbid army service should actually be dangerous. The Gulf was a good indication. All kinds of fuss over a "few" casualties. When you compare the Gulf to Omaha or Tarawa, the Gulf becomes nothing more harsh than yer vacation the time it rained the whole time you were there. And the Balkans has become just as big a farce. We need to make a choice. Either Canada and the US are geopolitical police or their military sends soldiers. Personally I would have sent troops and shot anything that shot at me while trying to "END THE FIGHTING". I myself am sick of sending my army to do a cops work. And I am sick of having a wimp heavy military, that does a wretched job faking being well armed cops. ------------------ Winning all the time is as boring as losing all the time

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Post #: 7
- 2/21/2001 1:36:00 PM   
John W Cochran

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 2/19/2001
From: Oklahoma City, Ok, US
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by VictorH: It's amusing to see someone who goes by the name of "GeneralOberst - Teufel" complaining about a United States Army commercial. Guess this is just something else to blame Clinton for. Is this worse than selling weapons to a terrorist state to finance military operations forbidden by Congress?
Since you brought it up, you do realise the Clinton administration funneled weapons to the Bosnians through Iran (a terroist state) after Congress forbid US assistance? Anyway, I don't care who he pardoned or how much the DNC got for it, I, like most military personnel, are just glad to be done with him.

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Post #: 8
- 2/22/2001 9:28:00 AM   
VictorH

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, U.S.
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by John W Cochran: Since you brought it up, you do realise the Clinton administration funneled weapons to the Bosnians through Iran (a terroist state) after Congress forbid US assistance? Anyway, I don't care who he pardoned or how much the DNC got for it, I, like most military personnel, are just glad to be done with him.
I bet you felt the same at the end of the Reagan/Bush era. As a matter of fact, I do know about the aid the Bosnians got from Iran as well as a number of other Arab nations. I also remember that it started during the Bush Administration. I also remember that there was constant war and slaughter in Yugoslavia for years, until Clinton came to power and Voila' it's over. [This message has been edited by VictorH (edited February 22, 2001).]

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Post #: 9
- 2/23/2001 6:46:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		"I also remember that there was constant war and slaughter in Yugoslavia for years, until Clinton came to power and Voila' it's over." Uhh not yet.

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Post #: 10
- 2/23/2001 2:32:00 PM   
Ed Cogburn

 

Posts: 1979
Joined: 7/24/2000
From: Greeneville, Tennessee - GO VOLS!
Status: offline
quote:

VictorH: "I also remember that there was constant war and slaughter in Yugoslavia for years, until Clinton came to power and Voila' it's over."
quote:

Grumble: Uhh not yet.
In the places where the worst of the fighting was originally going on, Bosnia and Croatia, it is over. It will take time for the more recent Kosovo problem to settle down. [This message has been edited by Ed Cogburn (edited February 23, 2001).]

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- 2/24/2001 1:54:00 AM   
VictorH

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, U.S.
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn: In the places where the worst of the fighting was originally going on, Bosnia and Croatia, it is over. It will take time for the more recent Kosovo problem to settle down. [This message has been edited by Ed Cogburn (edited February 23, 2001).]
You have to agree that the level of violence has declined dramatically. I am wondering what will become of Kosovo? I don't think the Serbs will forget if it is turned over to Albania.

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- 2/24/2001 5:07:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I'm thinking with Serbia aiding US/UK in their latest SEAD operation, some payback will be in order. Also I read that KFOR is considering allowing Serbian troops back into the border zones to patrol. If the present government continues to show signs of cooperation with NATO et al, then I would think Kosovo will return to FRY, though I wouldn't be surprised to see Montenegro disengage at least partially...

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Post #: 13
- 2/28/2001 4:06:00 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Your former so great US-Army seems to be a little desolate over here in Germany. In the last field exercise in northern Bavaria almost all local newspapers had one main topic:" US-Army on warpath with own material" Really funny! In my Bundeswehr time I found most US soldiers a little arogant, when you spoke about their material. It was the greatest and best, most modern, easy to repair and very reliable. They drove along one German military vehicle with a breakdown and laughed at the conscripts, who tried to repair their truck. The reality looked other at these former times: The US-Army had lots of breakdowns and lost almost every Nato-comparison in almost any type of weapons. This was 10 years ago. But now the old times are back! Hurray! Let us be very cautious when US vehicles are near, you don´t know wether they are going to explode in the next moment or kill you by rolling over your car. But US-Forces tended to kill themselfes by shooting on their tanks or crashing their helos into trees, too. They even shoot their marvelous rockets (Hellfire) "only 7km to far west and 11km to far north", destroying a road and damaging a church. Americans do not tell the forum your army is so great. Nobody who knows it would ever believe! [This message has been edited by Frank (edited February 28, 2001).]

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Post #: 14
- 3/1/2001 2:46:00 AM   
VicKevlar

 

Posts: 881
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline 		"The US-Army had lots of breakdowns and lost almost every Nato-comparison in almost any type of weapons. This was 10 years ago." Where are you getting your data? Please post links and definitive info. I'm curious if this is merely your opinion or backed by fact.

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Post #: 15
- 3/1/2001 3:09:00 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		I am an eye witness, living near the greatest NATO traing area in Europe (Grafenwöhr) and having seen enough US-Army trucks being immobilized around our streets. The comparisons I have seen were tank shooting matches (?) between all Nato partners and the US boys were not the very best, but the Germans, followed by the Canadians and the British. The reports about all this are in German newspapers, like "Der Neue Tag" or "Oberpfaelzer Nachrichten". I do not have the links, sorry.

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Post #: 16
- 3/1/2001 3:37:00 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Just found the latest link: http://www.derneuetag.de/zeitung/0,2123,3064-1,00.html The text is in German, sorry. You might find some other info about the US-Forces in Grafenwöhr in the archive.

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Post #: 17
- 3/11/2001 5:40:00 AM   
Bozman

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 3/10/2001
From: Queidersbach, Rheinland Pfalz, GE
Status: offline 		As an Active Duty US Army officer currently stationed in Germany, I take offense to anecdotal observations about the readiness of American forces in Germany. I spent the last week in the field setting up the Army's last MASH (Mobile Army Surgical Hospital) and returned to immediately go on 7 days of emergency surgical call. The Army's strength has been reduced by more than 50% since Desert Storm, yet our operational tempo has continued to increase. We continue to do more with less, and it does show in many ways, including retention, morale, and readiness. But we're still able to project power anywhere on the planet, something German armed forces haven't done in more than 50 years. Regarding the Balkans, my unit spent 6 months in Kosovo treating the carnage which has persisted and is now escalating due to Kosovar Albanian rebel incursions into Macedonia and Serbia. In that time, we performed more than 250 surgeries, including many resuscitative and reconstructive surgeries on Kosovar Serbians injured in retributive attacks. We were and are the ONLY trauma facility in the US sector. As the OIC of the operating room I had access to the surgical log of all surgical cases performed since we hit the ground, and it wasn't pretty. My point is, when you make vague and generalized statements about the state of the US Army and especially USAREUR, you offend people who work their butts off for little reward.

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Post #: 18
- 3/12/2001 3:35:00 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Hey Bozman! There is absolutely nothing anecdotical on a newspaper report. Check the link, read yourself or better phone your 1.Division and ask what happened. :D It is absolutely true, that your Armed forces were reduced and that they still do a great job. But that does not affect the truth.

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Post #: 19
- 3/27/2001 8:27:00 AM   
Joaquim

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 3/22/2001
From: Portugal
Status: offline 		About the commercial (wich I didn't saw... and probably never will!): Perhaps the ideia was that the lone soldier was being recued by his fellows? a kind of «Private... ooops forgot the name (REALLY) movie in commercial?!?... But don't forget you all: telling jokes of one another, and learning to hear and laught is one of the bests ways to friendship... :)

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Post #: 20
- 3/28/2001 2:57:00 AM   
Joaquim

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 3/22/2001
From: Portugal
Status: offline
quote:

As an Active Duty US Army officer currently stationed in Germany, I take offense to anecdotal observations about the readiness of American forces in Germany.
You can, you can... but I sincerily doubt you gain anything by that... perhaps some more anecdotals observations? :) Joaquim Sorry for the english «Greatness is laughting on yourself» - or whatever said whoever said that...

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Post #: 21
- 3/28/2001 6:47:00 AM   
Akmatov

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Gee, I missed the part about running away. I just figured after my experiences of tasking far too few good soldiers to back to back taskings/assignments that the 'doing more with less' approach had finally reached its logical conclusion - we're down to one poor bastard being sent out by Washington to do a battalion-sized job. HUYA!

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Post #: 22
- 3/28/2001 6:59:00 AM   
Akmatov

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Just a quick comment on Franks observations. I have no information regarding breakdown or accident rates, however the formula is pretty simple. Provide fine troops with fine equipment then slash their training to nothing, spend their maintenance budget on humanitarian projects and over task them into exhaustion. The results are inevitable regardless of the army, regardless of the fine quality of the soldiers and the equipment. (Feel free to aid airmen(we are missing three birds and four airmen in Europe today), sailors and marines). The Clinton administration was on watch and largely responsible, but the blame should be shared with a Congress and a public eager to snarf down and gorge on the 'Peace Dividend'. The feeding frenzy over base closing was revolting.

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Post #: 23
- 3/28/2001 1:51:00 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		You lost a plane in Germany two days ago, too. I know the problem of shrinking budgets in the military. The Bundeswehr has the same problems. The point is, that the Bundeswehr is used at home, so a lack of material is not so dangerous, but your boys are in all parts in the world, are not really liked everywhere and are in a lot of peace keeping missions. So the money is spent first for the important actions and the little what is left is spent for training and exercise.

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Post #: 24
- 3/28/2001 11:15:00 PM   
Akmatov

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		You're right about the Bundeswehr. One advantage they have is that being stationed close to home is I suspect the politicians have to take fairly good care of them. Unlike the American troops who tend to be out of sight and out of mind for most Americans. Actually, you guys see more of the American troops than we do here in the States - due to the Kasern system. I was stationed in Germany for eight years and I do indeed understand the problems large numbers of young males can cause in town in between trips to the field. However, on the other side my German wife was astonished to discover the large number of Americans with a very positive attitude towards Germans based in part on the Americans having meet nice German people while in the military. There are certainly some problems, but personally I think things are lot better than they could be. My grandfather served in the US Army during WWI and my father and father-in-law in WW II, both combat infantry only my father was in the US Army and my father-in-law in the Wehrmacht. Both went through hell and both lost a limb. I think the fact that I was fortunate enough to meet and marry a wonderful woman in Germany is a HUGE improvement over there being a third generation of war betweeen our countries. I remember back around 1993 when the German Minister of Defense commented that the German government would prefer the Americans to maintain about a corps sized unit in Germany. I loved his rational because it echoed an idea I had had for a while - it's been a very quiet half century in Europe with the American Army stationed in Mittle Europa. I really think close relations between Germany and the US greatly benefit both. And as with any close relationship there is plenty of opportunity to see the others flaws.

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Post #: 25
- 3/28/2001 11:28:00 PM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline
quote:

You lost a plane in Germany two days ago, too.
...and the Luftwaffe lost a Tornado out here on the range last Friday. Don't know yet what the cause was-still investigating but hopefully not relating to falling O&M budgets/political apathy.

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Post #: 26
- 3/29/2001 12:58:00 AM   
Ed Cogburn

 

Posts: 1979
Joined: 7/24/2000
From: Greeneville, Tennessee - GO VOLS!
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Akmatov: Just a quick comment on Franks observations. I have no information regarding breakdown or accident rates, however the formula is pretty simple. Provide fine troops with fine equipment then slash their training to nothing, spend their maintenance budget on humanitarian projects and over task them into exhaustion. The results are inevitable regardless of the army, regardless of the fine quality of the soldiers and the equipment. (Feel free to aid airmen(we are missing three birds and four airmen in Europe today), sailors and marines). The Clinton administration was on watch and largely responsible, but the blame should be shared with a Congress and a public eager to snarf down and gorge on the 'Peace Dividend'. The feeding frenzy over base closing was revolting.
A rational explanation, succinctly said. Glad you said this Akmatov, as I believe its true, except for the shot at Clinton, since the downsizing began before Clinton. Of course, this explanation doesn't suit Frank, since this isn't going to be good fodder for the flame war he wants.

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Post #: 27
- 3/29/2001 2:48:00 AM   
82nd Airborne


Posts: 2484
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Coquitlam, B.C., Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Frank: but the Germans, followed by the Canadians and the British.
WOO HOO, 2ND place. Do we get a prize? If I have a choice I'll take one of your finer automobiles.

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Post #: 28
- 3/29/2001 3:28:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline
quote:

"A rational explanation, succinctly said. Glad you said this Akmatov, as I believe its true, except for the shot at Clinton, since the downsizing began before Clinton "
Well, having been through the Reagan, Bush Sr, and Clinton admins, the operations tempo, which has led to the exodus of trained personnel-worn out equipment etc ramped up during the first Clinton Administration. Downsizing is not an issue, if you consider that by doing that the scale and number of missions is also downsized. Despite what the DoD pogues who write these slogans think, "More with Less" violates basic logic. You do "Less with Less".

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Nigel Tufnel

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Post #: 29
- 3/29/2001 2:19:00 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Hello Akmatov, schöne Grüße aus der Heimat an Deine Frau! (Hello Akmatov, greetings to your wife from her homeland). Have you been in Grafenwöhr once? I live near the training area, so every American who has been in Grafenwöhr is quite a part of our community. :) We have not heard anything about a lost Tornado yet! Bloody Defence Minister! :mad: Ed, I do like flame wars, sometimes, but I do like a civiliced discussion with friendly people, too.

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