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Foundering in Feudals

 
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Foundering in Feudals - 10/13/2005 1:56:11 AM   
Grand_Armee

 

Posts: 809
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't recruited any infantry or cavalry because I gained enough of them in my first two years through feudal levies. At that point I dropped my readiness to 85% to save some cash and avoid any more levies.

Next April I've got more irregular cavalry and infantry coming in. How low do I need to set my readiness, now?
Post #: 1
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/13/2005 2:48:53 AM   
Grand_Armee

 

Posts: 809
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		Update: 1 year later, still more feudals appear. Readiness still at 85%. Saxony is popping out 7 this turn.

(in reply to Grand_Armee)
Post #: 2
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/13/2005 3:04:05 AM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		Low readiness doesn't stop protectorate levies.

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Post #: 3
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/13/2005 3:47:43 AM   
Grand_Armee

 

Posts: 809
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		OK. But my native and conquered provinces are chucking them out so fast that 3 armies and 8 corps can't hold them all...I do have the corps system modifier. This is five years into the scenario, now.

I may have to start disbanding some. The only thing I've built besides container units is artillery and one heavy ship.

(in reply to ericbabe)
Post #: 4
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/13/2005 3:50:35 AM   
Doobious


Posts: 195
Joined: 6/18/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Does turning down the Draft Size slider help with this issue? ...or is Draft Size just replacements for existing units?

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Post #: 5
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/13/2005 6:22:59 AM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grand_Armee

I may have to start disbanding some.


Disbanding!! Did that make it in? I missed that one. Where is it?

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Post #: 6
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/13/2005 4:31:12 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		Draft rate doesn't affect feudal levy... Several players are of the opinion that protectorates levy too many units. I may cut this down in the next build.

Disbanding: there's a red "X" button on each of the divisions now. Click it to give a disband order to the unit. Unit won't actually be disbanded till the movement phase.


(in reply to solops)
Post #: 7
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/14/2005 9:35:30 AM   
Grand_Armee

 

Posts: 809
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		I don't mind getting my own natural feudals now...I can just disband them. However, I think their creation should come from your materiel' stocks. I have so much Iron stockpiled that I'd be able to build lots of heavy arty every few months. Horses, too...man, if I could just figure out how to build a racetrack!

(in reply to ericbabe)
Post #: 8
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/14/2005 3:40:30 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grand_Armee

I don't mind getting my own natural feudals now...I can just disband them. However, I think their creation should come from your materiel' stocks. I have so much Iron stockpiled that I'd be able to build lots of heavy arty every few months. Horses, too...man, if I could just figure out how to build a racetrack!


Ralegh thinks that with the new waste rules it's too easy to stockpile a lot of resources. I tend to agree, but all the feedback we'd gotten before tended to indicate that players wanted a more generous economy with freer flowing resources, and so I have done my best to oblige.

In a future patch, I'd like to make this moddable somehow, or else to design scenarios that have tighter economies, as I personally think that tighter economies and more severe waste rules make for a better game.

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Post #: 9
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/14/2005 6:13:15 PM   
Jordan

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

In a future patch, I'd like to make this moddable somehow, or else to design scenarios that have tighter economies, as I personally think that tighter economies and more severe waste rules make for a better game.


I am one who argued against generosity (I'm a hoot at x-mas). I would definitely like to see scenarios with scarcity (1803) because you're right...it does make for a better game. A much better game. Ralegh's thoughts about stockpiling are troubling...I'd hate to see COG become just another hoard and conquer fest.

I thought that most of the complaints had to do with the reporting rather than waste itself?

(in reply to ericbabe)
Post #: 10
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/15/2005 2:59:22 AM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jordan
I am one who argued against generosity (I'm a hoot at x-mas). I would definitely like to see scenarios with scarcity (1803) because you're right...it does make for a better game. A much better game. Ralegh's thoughts about stockpiling are troubling...I'd hate to see COG become just another hoard and conquer fest.

I thought that most of the complaints had to do with the reporting rather than waste itself?


There were many complaints to the effect of "I built a big army but now I can't feed/pay for it." The current version now errs on the side of generosity.

For the next patch I'd like to make a few parameters of the economy customizable. For now, you can always lower your power (to -1 or -2) to simulate a tighter economy.


(in reply to Jordan)
Post #: 11
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/16/2005 8:19:55 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		For those following this thread, I am currently trying to bully Eric into tightening the economy at higher difficulty levels in the third patch. I think that would increase the - well - difficulty, and if anyone complains they can play at easier difficulty levels. This seems to be "right" solution to me.

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

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Post #: 12
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/16/2005 9:01:35 AM   
Uncle_Joe


Posts: 1985
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline 		I think that one thing that could be done to reduce surplus econ is to charge maintenance in more than just money and food. Troops need to rearm and ships need to refit. These take resources more than just money.

What about implementing fractional upkeep costs of metal, wood, and horses in various combos for the units? That way units would be a constant small drain on your total resource outlay rather than just on cash and food.

Another alternative would be to have to pay an amount of iron/wood/horses/textiles etc whenever replacements are added to units....after all, those replacements need to be armed and repairing ships needs some amount of raw materials.

Either would slow down the resources intake while still allow players to play an economic game if they so chose.

Thoughts?

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Post #: 13
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/16/2005 10:27:53 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

Ralegh thinks that with the new waste rules it's too easy to stockpile a lot of resources.


I agree, I think it's a bit too generous as well.



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Post #: 14
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/16/2005 5:48:45 PM   
Suvorov928


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		I think it is way too generous as well. I think the game should be challanging in all aspects, including economy. Maybe the economy could tighten up as you increase the difficulty or something.

(in reply to Grand_Armee)
Post #: 15
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/16/2005 6:27:01 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		it does
well, at least with the +/- to power levels when you start up a game



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Post #: 16
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/16/2005 7:19:10 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		I do not agree. If you want it tightened, see if Eric can make a separate set of economic hardness levels that can be selected.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 17
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/16/2005 8:07:53 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

I think that one thing that could be done to reduce surplus econ is to charge maintenance in more than just money and food. Troops need to rearm and ships need to refit. These take resources more than just money.

What about implementing fractional upkeep costs of metal, wood, and horses in various combos for the units? That way units would be a constant small drain on your total resource outlay rather


This was the way the original design of the game worked. Artillery needed .5 iron/turn to upkeep; cavalry needed .5 horses; infantry needed .05 of iron and horses. We got rid of it during one of the attempts to simplify the economy (if you think the economy is complicated now you should have seen it last summer!)

I definitely think that a tighter economy makes for a better game as the player gets more experienced -- but a tight economy can be very frustrating for new players. So I think it should be something the player can control. Building a rule into the difficulty levels as Ralegh recommends may be the way to go (I'm warming to that idea...) As any change will have to be tested thoroughly I'm not going to try anything on this till the next patch.


(in reply to Uncle_Joe)
Post #: 18
RE: Foundering in Feudals - 10/16/2005 8:09:19 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		I don't understand your point, it is already in the game

setting the power levels at the start will do this

why should he make new settings, when he already made settings that can be used ?



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Post #: 19
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