Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: 3 years and nothing changed

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> RE: 3 years and nothing changed Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/28/2005 9:14:35 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewC

... I'm starting to think that you randomly hit the keyboard in a fit of anger when assigning the new values.


Thank God for this assertion. Now if we chart the comments throughout this thread from start to finish we can project the next accusation that will be made about Rumania. Thanks to my unique insight from the great beyond, here it is:

A monkey with a political axe to grind against former Soviet bloc nations must have been hired to code the OOB for Matrix.

Feel free to cut & paste this snippet for use in your next ranting post. However, I must ask, nay I must plead & beg, please, please, please, DO NOT STOP POSTING. This thread gets better all the time.

_____________________________

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

(in reply to AndrewC)
Post #: 151
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/28/2005 9:36:58 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline
Good use of the word "nay"

(in reply to Sturmpionier)
Post #: 152
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/29/2005 12:10:11 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline
All units use it as a base. It also sets experience, morale, AND leadership to that number.


Goblin





_____________________________


(in reply to VikingNo2)
Post #: 153
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/29/2005 4:40:21 AM   
Tropsbor

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
Please hear me.

There is some truth in the actual ratings as far as Romania is concerned.

You have to remember that the Romanian Army was made of conscripted peasants whose training was insufficient and not adapted to modern warfare. This is essentially what Manstein wrote in Lost Victories. However, a lot of them were very brave and ressourceful.

In the battle for Odessa, the romanians suffered many casualties. Units would often lose up to 50% of their strength, but they rarely panicked or ran away. At Stalingrad, the 3rd Romanian Army lost nearly half its units in the encirclement of General Lascar's group because they resisted at all costs. On 22 November, the group transmitted its last message:
"The situation is critical. The encirclement is closing in with every hour.
Last night 2 emissaries came, proposing us to surrender, all the divisions refused.
The artillery regiments only have 40 shots for each gun.
Infantry ammo is very low.
Our troops didn't eat anything in the last 3 days.
This morning the enemy attacked heavily with tanks and Katyushas to the left of the 15th Division and the right of the 6th Division.
Tonight I planned to break the encirclement towards Chernashevskaya.
We have a large number of wounded, there is little we can do to help them.
All of our anti-tank guns have no effect against most enemy tanks.
Our infantry is crushed by the tanks.
We can only resist one more day.
Send us ammo and gas with priority."
There is one exceptional account of a romanian officer who jumped on a T-34 and disabled its machine guns with a hammer.
If anything, I would increase their morale in WAW and leave the experience as it is. But I'm not finished here.
Like I said before, the Romanian Army comprised of mostly conscripted peasants who got little training, but about 20% of it was made of professional soldiers (Vânători de Munte, Rosiori, etc.) who fought as well as any Waffen-SS unit. They are the ones Rundstedt and Manstein considered the best "non-German Axis" soldiers, but the fact remains that a big part of the Romanian Army lacked experience, training and good equipment.
In conclusion, I would increase the overall troop morale and leave the experience as it is, but the Mountain Hunters and Cavalry need to bumped up somehow because their +10 morale/experience bonus is not enough for them in my opinion. Not only that, but they need a lot of work in the oob department. Right now, the only cavalry unit is a cavalry squad equipped with rifle, lmg and grenade!!! There needs to be Cavalry/Mountain AT, Cavalry/Mountain mortar teams, etc. for god's sake! Of course, their rarity would have to be increased compared to the usual stuff. If this will be updated, I don't think anybody will have any reason to complain. What do you guys think?

< Message edited by Tropsbor -- 9/29/2005 4:42:48 AM >

(in reply to Goblin)
Post #: 154
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/29/2005 12:17:20 PM   
soldier

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
- From 42 onwards, even elite Romanian infantry is still not as good as soviet conscripts so i think theres a problem there.
- With experience at 30/40, tanks will fire only twice when opening attacks. Once engaged they will only get one shot per turn and have no chance of adjusting their targetting system (so why bother with giving their tanks optical ratings, they can't use them anyway). The Infantry may get one more odd shot here and there but often don't shoot at all !
- With morale at 30, troops will abandon heavy entrenched positions to get mowed down out in the open with the slightest pressure applied, don't bother using artillery on them you won't need it (in fact don't bother buying it unless you are also a minor).
- Gun troops will also abandon their weapon when hit by some sustained rifle fire and won't rally (No problem, the gun they were manning was useless anyway ).
- With this performance on the field a terrible player using majors (with the better equipment) easily beats good generals playing the minor countries. Little opportunity is available to use your skills and tactics, Result is already written in 8.4 before opening shot is fired.

Many factors contributed to the minor nations poor records in combat, most outside of WAWs tactical scope. The Stalingrad debacle (previously cited as historical evidence by some here ) was not the fault of Romanian infantry man. He was targetted because of his poor position on a flank that was way overextented, by a massive force well supported by T34's and artillery. Sounds to me like German leadership is more in question here, not the bravery of poor Romanian sods in the firing line and yet they are blamed and penalized for it ? GEEZ whats going on here
I think many should actually try generated battles as Italy vs UK 43 or Romania instead of just yelling out thats history (Gunny ?) nor do i don't find it funny that minor nations have degenerated into such a farce with latest version of WAW and that so many here treat them with such contempt (actually its a rather sad comentary).

< Message edited by soldier -- 9/29/2005 12:27:24 PM >

(in reply to Tropsbor)
Post #: 155
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/29/2005 9:41:04 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline
Good contributions from all of you. I find it interesting and am learning.

_____________________________


In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to soldier)
Post #: 156
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/29/2005 9:59:47 PM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline
I'll say one thing; it's made me download the H2H mod for 7.1 that's been mentioned so much. And it rocks!

Andrew, try H2H if you can. The set up for Romania could well be just the way you like it. Or at least more historically accurate, and certainly a lot more playable.

_____________________________

[IMG]http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k436/Swamprat98/need_help_3_126.jpg[/IMG]

(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 157
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/30/2005 3:52:12 AM   
Tropsbor

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

- From 42 onwards, even elite Romanian infantry is still not as good as soviet conscripts so i think theres a problem there.
- With experience at 30/40, tanks will fire only twice when opening attacks. Once engaged they will only get one shot per turn and have no chance of adjusting their targetting system (so why bother with giving their tanks optical ratings, they can't use them anyway). The Infantry may get one more odd shot here and there but often don't shoot at all !
- With morale at 30, troops will abandon heavy entrenched positions to get mowed down out in the open with the slightest pressure applied, don't bother using artillery on them you won't need it (in fact don't bother buying it unless you are also a minor).
- Gun troops will also abandon their weapon when hit by some sustained rifle fire and won't rally (No problem, the gun they were manning was useless anyway ).
- With this performance on the field a terrible player using majors (with the better equipment) easily beats good generals playing the minor countries. Little opportunity is available to use your skills and tactics, Result is already written in 8.4 before opening shot is fired.

Many factors contributed to the minor nations poor records in combat, most outside of WAWs tactical scope. The Stalingrad debacle (previously cited as historical evidence by some here ) was not the fault of Romanian infantry man. He was targetted because of his poor position on a flank that was way overextented, by a massive force well supported by T34's and artillery. Sounds to me like German leadership is more in question here, not the bravery of poor Romanian sods in the firing line and yet they are blamed and penalized for it ? GEEZ whats going on here
I think many should actually try generated battles as Italy vs UK 43 or Romania instead of just yelling out thats history (Gunny ?) nor do i don't find it funny that minor nations have degenerated into such a farce with latest version of WAW and that so many here treat them with such contempt (actually its a rather sad comentary).


Hi soldier,

You make several good points.

Like I wrote in my previous post, the Romanian Army should not be seen as homogenous. You could say it had two faces: one representing the insufficiently trained conscripts (the vast majority) and the other one representing the professional soldiers who formed about 20% of the army. The soldiers depicted in 8.4 are obviously conscripts as you can tell from their morale, experience and leadership stats. In their case, I would definitely increase the morale, but leave the experience as poor as it is. But, like you, I find it very unfair that the professional side of the army is misrepresented in WAW (possibly due to game limitations). Yes, the Mountain Hunters and Cavalry troops get their +10 morale/experience bonus as any elite troop, but when you consider that the generic ratings are in the 30-40 range, the +10 bonus is really nothing. This needs urgent attention. The gap between conscripts and professionals was a lot bigger. Some conscripts could not even tell their own tanks and planes from the enemy's, and as a result, they fired on their own forces! On the other hand, the professional soldiers (mainly the mountain, cavalry, armored units) were a different lot due to their longer and higher-degree training. Check their combat records and you'll see what I mean:

quote:

Manoiliu commanded the 4th Mountain Division, which under his leadership cleared Soviet defenses at Balaclava in the Crimea, taking over ten thousand prisoners including virtually the entire Soviet 109th Rifle Division.


quote:

Hristea commanded the famed 2nd Calarasi Cavalry Regiment, which during the Battle of Stalingrad defended an eighty-kilometer stretch of front for the embattled Romanian 4th Army. Incredibly, Hristea held this sector against Soviet attacks for nearly a month before being forced to withdraw. Hristea himself suffering grievous maiming wounds while leading his troops against heavy Soviet armor, in one instance firing his pistol at a KV-1 tank.


quote:

During mopping up operations of the Eltigen beachhead in the Kuban in 1943, a force of 820 Soviet troops broke out of their encirclement in the direction of Soviet-held enclave at nearby Ganikale. Overrunning German artillery batteries on Mount Mithridates, this force quickly jeopardised the entire German ring at Eltigen. Mociulschi assembled a force from elements of the 6th Mountain Division and the 9th Rosiori (cavalry) Regiment, personally leading them in a counterattack upon the Soviets, obliterating enemy forces and saving the local sector from disaster.


quote:

Teodorini commanded the 6th Cavalry Division during mopping up operations of the Soviet Eltigen beachhead in the Kuban in 1943; his Division counted over 1,200 dead on the battlefield and captured some 1,570 prisoners along with a cache of equipment such as 38 tanks and 25 antitank guns, many of which were subsequently pressed into Romanian service.


These are only a few examples (all four from Feldgrau.com).
This said, I would increase their stats (including leadership, rally, etc.) to be on par with german troops. I wonder if Michael Wood can do this. Like I said, +10 morale/exp is not enough considering the generic stats. The bonus would need to be 3 times bigger but it can't since the limit is 10 afaik. It would involve creating two versions of the same nation, each with different generic stats. One to reflect the conscript force and the other, the professional side with its own oob set. Weird! I hope someone can come up with a better idea...

Another thing.

Like soldier wrote, the tanks need to be revised too because their stats are abyssmal. Romanian tankers were at least as good Russian tankers, yet they get their ass wooped royally in WAW.

This happened sometime during the opening of the Jassy-Kishinev Operation, when morale and experience (according to WAW stats) were at their lowest.

quote:

The 1st Tank Regiment was the spearhead of the counter-attack launched by gen. Korne's 1st Armored Division against the flank of the Soviet tank columns. At about 10 am, the regiment ran into a Soviet tank formation near the Scobalteni village and engaged it. The fighting lasted until 8 pm (10 hours) and the casualties were high: 60 Soviet tanks, 20 Romanian tanks. After several IS tanks were knocked out, the Soviets chose to disengage. It is not known how many tanks did slt. Dumitru destroy that day, but given his performance in other battles the following days, probably at least one.


This is an excerpt taken from a thread dedicated to Romanian tank aces at the Axis History forum. You will find many other examples there.

A Romanian tank ace

And two heated discussions about the effectiveness of the Romanian troops.
Effectiveness of Romanian Troops
Italians and Romanians running away
Happy reading :D
What do you think?

(in reply to Sturmpionier)
Post #: 158
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/30/2005 4:04:08 AM   
Tropsbor

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
Stupid me.

"two versions of the same nation"

A better solution: allow the +10 exp/morale bonus to go as far as 30 to better represent the elite troops of countries like Italy and Romania. Then we alter the oob to apply the +30 exp/morale bonus and voila. Though increasing leadership stats will pose a problem.

I hope I'm not talking through my hat here.


(in reply to Tropsbor)
Post #: 159
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/30/2005 4:59:22 AM   
PimpYourAFV

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 9/30/2005
From: Japan
Status: offline

I support the idea that Romania and others should be beefed a little. I read some stuff about Stalingrad like Antony Beevor's book and it sounds like the Romanians manning the flanks outside the city were ignored and not given equipment and supplies needed to set up a proper defence cause the Germans never considered the possiblity of an encirclement by the enemy. Also the Romanian sector was huge despite their small numbers and weather so cold they could hardly move or get any guns to work. Any nation would have instantly crumbled I think before the powerful Soviet attack that day. From what I see, this gave the Romanians an undeserved bad reputation over history. I spoke to a very patriotic German Fokwolf fighter vet from the eastern front and even he told me Romania was useless to Germany. Ouch.

Same for Hungary too, underequipped and too few to make much of a historical impact. That said, I still quite like the unit lists for the minors, just the stats may be unfairly weak.

All that aside, I think its great that the game includes all those minor nations for us to dip into.

Something to consider...

I'm a new player of this game and doing my first German campaign. I frequently swap units into other types of the same type like changing a German infantry to Romanian for variety. Just my nature to experiment and adventure. I started with German units but wanted to try other stuff. During the swap I think it keeps the German leader on the squad but I'm not sure. For me I don't really care so much as long as I have a good scrap with a motley bunch of clowns.




(in reply to Tropsbor)
Post #: 160
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/30/2005 8:56:14 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline
Lord have mercy, guys. This dog has been beaten to a pulp! I think most of us are agreed and those who aren't can agree to disagree. Good points by many, read and digested.

Not much we can really do about it except in our own scenario design or in the preferences menu. That is a good place ot even the odds and is easily done.

Good night, sweet theme. Life goes on and so do we.

Wild Bill

_____________________________


In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to PimpYourAFV)
Post #: 161
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 9/30/2005 8:56:45 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline
Does anyone have a key to this door to lock it?

_____________________________


In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 162
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/1/2005 8:09:32 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Does anyone have a key to this door to lock it?


Bill, I'm attempting to get the key, BUT, I see no need to lock the door, yet.


_____________________________


(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 163
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/15/2005 8:02:38 PM   
duskdeep

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Iasi,Romania
Status: offline
I am probably the second Romanian browsing these forums.
Actually, the fact that annoys me the most is that ROmania is mistakenly written RUmania.Of course, the flag is also a major annoiance, as our country, during WW2, didn't have the communist flag displayed in the game.
I find it hard to actually rate Romanian effeciency throughout the war, as we were disadvantaged by the fact that we were caught between the hammer and the anvil:Germans and Soviets.We didn't have any real option as whom to ally with, and also both nations neglected us badly.The Soviets had their obvious reasons: us fighting them and also the historical conflicts between Romania and Russia (as a side note, probably if Romanians were to vote their most hated nation, they would almost surely vote the Russians...). But Germans didn't have any objective reasons to disconsider a quite powerful ally, economically speaking at least.So it is quite hard to actually rate the Romanian Army, as we were mainly used as cannon-fodder by our more powerful allies.
I have to agree with what Tropsbor said:the Romanian army's morale was high.As far as our history goes, we didn't chicken out in front of the enemy. We were actually used to fighting until the bitter end while defending our contry against our more powerful neighbours. So ,of all things, we didn't lack courage on the battlefield.
As far as experience is concerned, I have to agree once more with Tropsbor.Even in the first World War, we were caught off-guard by the conflict.I don't think WW2 was any different.We clearly lacked e.g. the German War Machine's capability of effeciently training our average troops.Experience should stay the same, maybe set a bit higher for the average soldier, but this poses a problem because of actual game modelling.
With these being said, I apologize for my spelling/grammar mistakes and I hope I stayed on subject.

(in reply to Sturmpionier)
Post #: 164
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/15/2005 8:56:15 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline
Thank you, duskdeep!

From now on and forever I shall write Romania and Romanians. BTW In Finnish I have always written Romania and romanialaiset. I thought the other way was just some English convention.

About that hammer and anvil I also know what you mean.

_____________________________

Don't be shocked, I AM funny.

(in reply to duskdeep)
Post #: 165
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/15/2005 9:12:45 PM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline
duskdeep:
These forums have some very skilled people who if they saw what then proper ROMANIAN WW2 Natinal Flag was might just be able to make it up so it could be used as a corrected replacement for the existing flag. You'd be surprised what some people can do with a gif or similar program.

Just a thought, any volunteers for this project ????????I wish I was that talented and had the proper programs.

_____________________________

"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

(in reply to Puukkoo)
Post #: 166
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/15/2005 9:25:25 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
Could one of you post the correct flag here?
I wouold like to use it.

_____________________________



(in reply to chief)
Post #: 167
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/15/2005 10:06:18 PM   
duskdeep

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Iasi,Romania
Status: offline
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ro-roygv.html
The war flag and ensign image seems to be the saffest bet.
Hope it's accurate.

(in reply to Alby)
Post #: 168
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/15/2005 10:08:46 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
this one??





Attachment (1)

_____________________________



(in reply to duskdeep)
Post #: 169
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/15/2005 10:25:09 PM   
duskdeep

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Iasi,Romania
Status: offline
Yes, I think that that is the right one...Anyway, it's far more accurate than the current one

(in reply to Sturmpionier)
Post #: 170
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/18/2005 1:45:08 AM   
Tropsbor

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
I stumbled across the campaign journal of a 2nd lieutenant from the 3rd Mountain Division who participated in the fights for the Taman bridgehead. Here's an excerpt:

http://www.worldwar2.ro/memorii/?article=104
February. 6th Mountain Battalion is relieved due to tiredness and physical exhaustion, by 5th "Moti" Battalion, with the exception of the sector of Reconnaissance Company, that was taken by a company of 116th German Infantry Regiment, commanded by Lt. Lang, a neighbor in my left for two months. The commander of the battalion, Cpt. Kraus, is impressed by the sight of the battlefield and he congratulate me for the way I organized and conducted the defense on this 1000 meters front during the 10 days of fierce fighting.
Indeed, in front of 6th Mountain Battalion, after it was replaced, were found over 5000 bodies. Between January 26 and February 4 1943, 6th Mountain Battalion was attacked by three infantry divisions, one independent brigade and one tank brigade. Of the 50 tanks that took part in the battle, 36 were destroyed inside and in front of the battalion's position. At displacement time, Reconnaissance Company had 85 men, out of 100 at the beginning of the Russian offensive. The losses were: 5 dead and 10 wounded. Following these glorious battles, 6th Mountain Battalion "Beius" is congratulated by the commander of "Wetzel" Group, and by Gen. von Schleinitz, commander of 9th Infantry Division to which it was subordinated, and he name the battalion "the prussian battalion".
On February 4 1943, after replacement, 6th Mountain Battalion moves to Abinskaya as division's reserve, for rest and recovery.


Now compare that to this...

I tried to recreate a battle during the 1st soviet assault on the taman bridgehead (from 25 February to 12 March 1943). I bought 1 Heavy Weapons Company (with 3x50mm ATG), 1 Mountain Company and a 105mm howitzer. For the Soviets, I bought 1 T-34 (m.43) Company, 2 Engineer Platoons, 2 Rifle Companies, scouts, 82mm and 120mm mortars. The **** hit the fan as soon as turn 1. Soviet artillery fire caused one of my ATG crew to abandon their gun and the Tank hunters (armed with mines) that I placed on each side of the road run 50 yards back in front of Soviet T-34's despite that no shot was fired. One of the 50mm ATG manages to knock out a T-34, but with only one or two shots allowed per turn it's extremely difficult to destroy a T-34, let alone touch it. At this point my ATG's become useless. Soviets tanks spotted them and quickly put them out of service. Once again, the crews run leaving their guns behind despite that they didn't suffer any casualties. Of the mountain rifle company I bought, only one squad (out of 10) actually stood its ground when a T-34 moved in an adjacent hex. The rest of the battle consisted of me waiting for the suppresion level to drop (impossible to rally; in the information screen, rally is set to 0 for everyone) while T-34's reduced my forces to nothing. The whole battle resembeled a rape scene. I don't think we need more proof that something is not in ordnung. Also please note that the forces involved on the romanian side in this battle were "elite infantry" who get +10 morale/experience bonus. Now imagine regular forces. Gulp!


(in reply to duskdeep)
Post #: 171
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/18/2005 1:54:54 AM   
Tropsbor

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
So far into the battle I knocked out only one tank and caused one soviet rifle squad to disperse after one ZB-53 team ripped it apart. After this I lost all control over my troops but what bothered me most was that only one shot from a T-34 sufficed to make my ATG crews leave their gun emplacement.

(in reply to Tropsbor)
Post #: 172
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/18/2005 2:07:22 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
It really is too bad that a legitimate grievance can get drowned out by a rude and uncouth delivery (not from you, Tropsbor).

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Tropsbor)
Post #: 173
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/18/2005 11:45:10 AM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline
The problem in the average ratings of the nation is that they are all designed for green troops. In creating a historical scenario the ratings should be boosted to meet actual requirements. I've desingned some scenarios too and even if I tend to favor default ratings I give some units a little extra.

If I bought Finnish 7th Infantry Regiment in 1944 I get guys whose experience is about 60, althought the historical ratings should in that special case be something about 85. I presume that the same is due with the Romanians, for I don't believe that those guys in your battle account were fighting their first combat mission.

Anyway I feel that we need more historical scenarios with Romanians.

As for the Hungarians we have 'Thunder at Banya Bass' that gives us some pretty tough Madgyars.

_____________________________

Don't be shocked, I AM funny.

(in reply to Tropsbor)
Post #: 174
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/18/2005 3:55:00 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It really is too bad that a legitimate grievance can get drowned out by a rude and uncouth delivery (not from you, Tropsbor).


Roger that.It sure as Hell prompted MY response and set the tone for much later comments, I suspect............
I look forward to being able to use the correct Romanian flag........

_____________________________




(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 175
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/18/2005 4:46:02 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It really is too bad that a legitimate grievance can get drowned out by a rude and uncouth delivery


It wasn't just rude, it was hilarious. Some people (a lot of people) got put off by the confrontational and acerbic tone, but I found it funny, partly b/c small-minded people are funny (small people in general are also funny which is why the circus is still around today.)

Seriously Duskdeep, (for once) I have some questions about this whole ROmania notion. I will take your word for it that ROmania is the proper spelling (just as you should take mine if I stated "Well, it's actually Amerrica") but I wonder where the RO/RU discrepancy originated? Can you shed any light on this? I know the Turks called the whole Christian population in that neck of the world "Rum" for their relationship to the Eastern Roman Empire. But, that was ages back. Also, does Romania use a Latin alphabet? I suspect yes, but it also wouldn't surprise me to find out that Romanians use a Cyrilic type of alphabet. If that (Cyrilic) is the case, is RUmania just an error of transliteration? Is it a long "o" or a short "o"? Too many questions, but my curious mind won't let me rest (I worked on the history of Hungary in grad school.)

I too noticed the flag issue a while ago when surfing the 'minor' nations. It didn't seem to make sense to me either, but I also did not know what the proper flag should look like. Kudos to you.

_____________________________

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 176
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/19/2005 3:02:21 AM   
Tropsbor

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
I guess that experience isn't too off the mark (perhaps it should be increased a little), but since they are designed for green troops, this penalizes the professional soldiers like you said. So low, the +10 morale/exp bonus has absolutely no effect. I found that an elite dedicated 81mm mortar squad had 21 exp in 1943. But morale is an even bigger issue. It's hard to put an estimate, but it was definitely higher than what WAW would have us believe, especially in 1941 when the romanians were eager to recover the lands lost with the Molotov-von Ribbentrop pact. Later on, morale still remained high despite the debacle at Stalingrad. This can be shown by the fact that after spring 1943, only Romanians and Finns stayed to man the fronts. Anyway, I'm tired of this thread. My last words are that these ratings need to be revised.

EOM

(in reply to Puukkoo)
Post #: 177
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/19/2005 5:29:40 AM   
Orzel Bialy


Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sturmpionier

Seriously Duskdeep, (for once) I have some questions about this whole ROmania notion. I will take your word for it that ROmania is the proper spelling (just as you should take mine if I stated "Well, it's actually Amerrica") but I wonder where the RO/RU discrepancy originated? Can you shed any light on this? I know the Turks called the whole Christian population in that neck of the world "Rum" for their relationship to the Eastern Roman Empire. But, that was ages back. Also, does Romania use a Latin alphabet? I suspect yes, but it also wouldn't surprise me to find out that Romanians use a Cyrilic type of alphabet. If that (Cyrilic) is the case, is RUmania just an error of transliteration? Is it a long "o" or a short "o"? Too many questions, but my curious mind won't let me rest (I worked on the history of Hungary in grad school.)


Courtesy of: http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Rumanian/index.html
English uses both forms, Rumanian and Romanian, to denote the Romance-speaking population in the South-Eastern Europe north of the Danube, which was traditionally referred as Vlachs (or Wallachians). Both forms were adopted by the mid 19th century when the principalities of Wallachia and Moldova were unified to form a new state, Rumania or Romania. The forms Rumania and Rumanian were prevailing till the second half of the 20th century, when the forms with "o" gradually became more popular.

It seems that the forms with "u" are etymologically justified, as Rumanian normally changes the unstressed (Vulgar) Latin "o" to "u", cf.:

The form Rumân was the natural form used in Rumanian itself till the second half of the 19th century. The neighbouring languages (like Bulgarian, Serbian, Russian, Polish etc.) use the form with "u", and French for its part established the spelling Roumain, Roumanie. Spanish adopted the forms Rumania and Rumano and such was initially the practice in Italian. German has Rumänien, Rumäne and rumänisch.
The form with "o" was introduced in Rumania to stress the descendency of the Rumanians from the ancient Romans; this orthographic change happened by the time of the unification of the principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia in the unitary kingdom of Rumania. In this period Cyrillic script was replaced by Latin and the language was heavily re-latinized.

The Rumanian state since then always promote the spelling with "o", even in the foreign languages, and finally English also accepted it as official. Italian also changed the orthography, from "Rumania" to "Romenia"; modern Portuguese also uses the forms Romenia and Romeno.

On Orbis Latinus the forms with "u" are preferred in order to distinguish Rumania, the modern state, from Romania, the historical name of the Roman empire, which is used now by the linguists to denote all the countries where Romance languages are spoken. These preferences are only technical and are based on the established practices of English. The usage of the forms Rumania and Rumanian are in no way attended to offend the modern state and nation which have preserved through centuries the Roman name.


There you go.


_____________________________


(in reply to Sturmpionier)
Post #: 178
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/19/2005 5:35:15 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline
Hi, When you design a scenario you are not required to use the default ratings. You can change them during the set up. So you can have elite minor troops. When you play a long campaign you can use minor troops (I've played campaigns with almost every country) Your core force should be elite long before the end. (unless you stink as a commander)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Orzel Bialy)
Post #: 179
RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 10/19/2005 2:18:12 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline
Although I know some Latin and Romance languages I don't know exactly how the country name Romania is pronounced by the Romanians. The evidence however suggests that u-form is more colloquial than the o-form.

Language questions are usually surprisingly political in nature as Orzel Bialy presented:

quote:

The form with "o" was introduced in Rumania to stress the descendency of the Rumanians from the ancient Romans; this orthographic change happened by the time of the unification of the principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia in the unitary kingdom of Rumania. In this period Cyrillic script was replaced by Latin and the language was heavily re-latinized.


If I were Romanian, I would definitely stress Roman descendancy too. The re-latinizing of the language is much the same as in Greece they have katharéousa and dhimotikí. The former is re-classicised literal language and the latter spoken everyday language.

_____________________________

Don't be shocked, I AM funny.

(in reply to Orzel Bialy)
Post #: 180
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> RE: 3 years and nothing changed Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.283