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The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russians

 
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The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russians - 10/15/2005 4:09:47 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		In defense of the 8.4 exp/ldr ratings, I can only offer this, if playing as the Russians in a long campaign. With true troop cost "ON", you can buy a HUGE starting core force. It is indeed a colossus with feet of clay, but if sheer numbers is your thing, then these are the guys to choose.

Will you take horrendous losses? Yes. Will you run out of repair points between battles? Yes. Will they drive you nuts with their propensity to break and run? Yes, also.

The flip side -- if you can keep this force alive, the advent of the T-34s and guards infantry units will eventually work out in your favor. You begin to appreciate the dogged determination, and the tremendous cost than the Russians endured in order to defeat the Germans and take Berlin.

Guys like Zhukov and Koniev did it with these men -- it requires equal amounts of ruthlessness and pride-swallowing, plus some extraordinary generalship.

I tried it before, and was found wanting. I'm gearing myself up to try it again. Wish me luck, comrades. The Motherland is calling for help.

PS I'm gonna get some Russian music to go along with this theme. Something from "Alexander Nevsky", perhaps?

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 10/15/2005 4:16:49 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/15/2005 4:56:25 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Russians do get frustrating to use in early years...
if you can stick it out, its worth it.


< Message edited by Alby -- 10/15/2005 4:57:12 AM >

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RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/15/2005 5:32:46 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I enjoy playing the Russians in a long campaign for that very reason. While it is also fun to play the brutally efficient German side as well, LC's tend to get a little stale after a few battles when your core force turns Elite and they wipe the walls with everything that they face...especially considering its the "AI"

Playing a low exp Russian or other similar type can be great fun

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RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/15/2005 2:23:35 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		Just another idea...

If you have finished long campaign with an army that no AI force can beat on any terms, you should try can you? With a help of the Editor you can switch sides and try if you can defeat your own elite army.

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Post #: 4
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/15/2005 5:57:35 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Have any of you ever played The Russian Steel Campaign?

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RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/16/2005 6:30:14 AM   
PimpYourAFV

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 9/30/2005
From: Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I enjoy playing the Russians in a long campaign for that very reason. While it is also fun to play the brutally efficient German side as well, LC's tend to get a little stale after a few battles when your core force turns Elite and they wipe the walls with everything that they face...especially considering its the "AI"

Playing a low exp Russian or other similar type can be great fun


For anyone who thinks the game is too easy as Germany vs the AI campaign try this excellent remedy: play on very hard (X2) every mission (don't forget to set it each time). Do not do the exploit of buying your units and then reducing the available points to the AI to match your purchase. That is lame. Limit yourself to 3 platoons of infantry, one weapons platoon, a pair of AT guns, a pair of AA guns (or 2 pairs even) one platoon of tanks plus 2 recon vehicles, 2 stugs, and 2 AT vehicles of any sort. Add in a triplet of special forces or a platoon of paratroopers, a couple of snipers and some arty of your choice. Have fun. Turn on AI advantage and crank up the arty settings to 140 soft/hard for both sides so you can't just wait out a bombardment like the default allows you to do.

My friend and I are playing on these settings now and he's getting very upset at me for suggesting it but we're still having a blast scrapping the monsterized AI.





< Message edited by TokyoBoyTensai -- 10/16/2005 6:32:09 AM >

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RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/16/2005 7:07:05 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Man, I keep trying, but the Russians in 1939 just flat out suck for air. Even with a huge core force, it does little good against the better-experienced Finns. To play the Russians in a long campaign, you gotta have the patience of Job. The ONLY good thing I can say is that the Russians can rely on the "god of war", the artillery, in massive amounts. At this point, it's the only thing that can prevent a complete rout.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 7
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/16/2005 5:24:38 PM   
KNomad


Posts: 339
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Buffalo, NY USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TokyoBoyTensai

For anyone who thinks the game is too easy as Germany vs the AI campaign try this excellent remedy: play on very hard (X2) every mission (don't forget to set it each time). Do not do the exploit of buying your units and then reducing the available points to the AI to match your purchase. That is lame. Limit yourself to 3 platoons of infantry, one weapons platoon, a pair of AT guns, a pair of AA guns (or 2 pairs even) one platoon of tanks plus 2 recon vehicles, 2 stugs, and 2 AT vehicles of any sort. Add in a triplet of special forces or a platoon of paratroopers, a couple of snipers and some arty of your choice. Have fun. Turn on AI advantage and crank up the arty settings to 140 soft/hard for both sides so you can't just wait out a bombardment like the default allows you to do.


This is close to how I've been doing my German LC's, just haven't used the "Hard" setting, but always AI Advantage. Is the above mentioned forces your recommended core force, or does that include support units? And the weapons platoon, that is MG/ATR/Light MTR? I usually buy an infantry company with attached light mortars & ATRs, supported by 10-12 AFVs as my core, with the rest being support units. I think I shall try the increased artillery setting for a change, it's effectiveness always seemed a little to low for me.

For curiosity's sake, "Do not do the exploit of buying your units and then reducing the available points to the AI to match your purchase. That is lame.", could you explain this to me? Does this mean I shouldn't reduce the campaign points to 1000 in the preferences like I usually do?

_____________________________

The gnome zaps a wand of death. (Nethack)
Don't get hurt! (XCOM: Apocolypse)
Incoming firepower has the Right of Way!
Fire at Will (or Wesley)!

(in reply to PimpYourAFV)
Post #: 8
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/16/2005 6:34:19 PM   
soldier

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I take a slightly different approach to getting a tougher AI. I use hard settings and AI advantage too but also increase spotting, hitting, rally and infantry strength by 5 for the AI. I also bust up arty against soft and hard targets but not up to 140 as i fear the AI's massed artillery tactics and heavy gun killing power with these settings. With H2H you really gotta watch your step, fight hard and expect to take casualties. I prefer this combat mix over 8.4's wide experience margins and tank panic, which for me results in much shorter local engagements where one side always breaks off easily. Theres no long bitter struggle at least not during the early war years

(in reply to KNomad)
Post #: 9
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/16/2005 8:07:26 PM   
BIASEDHISTORIAN

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/8/2001
From: RI USA
Status: offline 		Gunny,

Try playing the Japanese against the Russians in my Khalkin Gol meeting engagement, summer of 39...I am certain that you will come away from it with a newfound respect for Zhukov :)

Yak

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 10
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/16/2005 9:38:01 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		I played Japannese long campaign against Zhukov at Mongolia. First of the four battles was hard, but after I had destroyed most of their tanks, I was able to enfilade their routed infantry and it become a Japannese BANZAI against routed Russian Infantry... That was fun.

BANZAI!!!

The next three battles were not a big trouble as those Triple AA-guns chopped everything the Russians were throwing against me.

All in all the Russians were moderately dangerous enemies, but when I faced the Chinese I only lost few dudes to them. The Chinese were a walkover.

_____________________________

Don't be shocked, I AM funny.

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Post #: 11
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/16/2005 9:38:26 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BIASEDHISTORIAN

Gunny,

Try playing the Japanese against the Russians in my Khalkin Gol meeting engagement, summer of 39...I am certain that you will come away from it with a newfound respect for Zhukov :)

Yak


The Russians kicked my Butt!!...LOL
of course General Viking 2 was their commander..


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Post #: 12
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/16/2005 9:39:03 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soldier

I take a slightly different approach to getting a tougher AI. I use hard settings and AI advantage too but also increase spotting, hitting, rally and infantry strength by 5 for the AI. I also bust up arty against soft and hard targets but not up to 140 as i fear the AI's massed artillery tactics and heavy gun killing power with these settings. With H2H you really gotta watch your step, fight hard and expect to take casualties. I prefer this combat mix over 8.4's wide experience margins and tank panic, which for me results in much shorter local engagements where one side always breaks off easily. Theres no long bitter struggle at least not during the early war years


Turning "Unit Comm On" helps too...arty often goes out of contact.

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Post #: 13
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/17/2005 1:41:20 AM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline 		Playing with Early Years Russians:

Scouts go forward. They get shot at once. They radio back, "I've found the enemy sir. Gasp..." Then they expire.

The first wave of troops follows up. They get shot at. They radio back, "Enemy presence confirmed sir." Then they die.

Or they deliver their message verbally on the gallop as they pass their commander on their way rearwards. It doesn't matter if they can only advance through deep snow one hex at a time. Once they get shot at they fire up their Skidoos and head backwards over all manner of impassable terrain.

Russian commanders shave their heads so that their hair doesn't get ruffled by the slipstream of their retreating troops.

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Post #: 14
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/17/2005 2:19:34 AM   
PimpYourAFV

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 9/30/2005
From: Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KNomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: TokyoBoyTensai

For anyone who thinks the game is too easy as Germany vs the AI campaign try this excellent remedy: play on very hard (X2) every mission (don't forget to set it each time). Do not do the exploit of buying your units and then reducing the available points to the AI to match your purchase. That is lame. Limit yourself to 3 platoons of infantry, one weapons platoon, a pair of AT guns, a pair of AA guns (or 2 pairs even) one platoon of tanks plus 2 recon vehicles, 2 stugs, and 2 AT vehicles of any sort. Add in a triplet of special forces or a platoon of paratroopers, a couple of snipers and some arty of your choice. Have fun. Turn on AI advantage and crank up the arty settings to 140 soft/hard for both sides so you can't just wait out a bombardment like the default allows you to do.


This is close to how I've been doing my German LC's, just haven't used the "Hard" setting, but always AI Advantage. Is the above mentioned forces your recommended core force, or does that include support units? And the weapons platoon, that is MG/ATR/Light MTR? I usually buy an infantry company with attached light mortars & ATRs, supported by 10-12 AFVs as my core, with the rest being support units. I think I shall try the increased artillery setting for a change, it's effectiveness always seemed a little to low for me.

For curiosity's sake, "Do not do the exploit of buying your units and then reducing the available points to the AI to match your purchase. That is lame.", could you explain this to me? Does this mean I shouldn't reduce the campaign points to 1000 in the preferences like I usually do?


Hi KNomad The most important thing you can do to make your AI opponent stronger is setting your game to 'hard (X2) before every battle. Without that, the AI is impotent.


Yes that is my core force. I never buy land units with support money, just bombers and arty and on the extremely rare defence mission (I've had one so far) I buy some command posts and other fortifications for fun especially if the visibility is a sandstorm.

KNomad, yes I meant reducing the available purchase points in preferences is not a good idea in my opinion cause it radically reduces the number of units the AI can buy. Base amount minus your reduction which is then not applied to the X2 hard multiplier means you are fighting about 1/5 the number of AI units you would be with the default point setting.

Wow KNomad, do you really limit your purchase to 1000 points? I like to buy toys including ammo dump, command post, 4 ammo trucks, a couple of ammo crates to put with my front defenses to help out and a pair of those cool rocket trucks (they do little damage but the fireball sure looks cool). Sorry, I also forgot to mention in my post that I buy a pair of flame tanks to go with the infantry to help with bunkers and tanks that refuse to blow up. That weapons platoon I bought is a SS Weapons Plt cause it includes the ATR infantry, heavy machinegun pair and mortars I need, although I upgraded the mortars to newbelwurfers. I also buy 6 arty guns for my core which are vital to culling the enemy hordes. My purchase uses up most if not all the default purchase points.



soldier, that sounds like a difficult set-up for sure. You must have trouble winning with the AI so cranked up. I feel uneasy about adjusting those settings like spotting, hitting etc so I don't mess with them. I prefer just MORE bad guys to fight if we can't do anything to help the AI tactically.




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RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/17/2005 6:58:00 AM   
soldier

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I find the Ai doesn't buy much recon (or deploy it well) so i helped its spotting slightly.
I felt the same about changing hitting and rally settings but decided to try it out Basically because the Ai has no tactical intelligence. It fails to target danger units, disperses its efforts and never follows up on a success (especially on defence). Hitting helps it apply more pressure across the board, causes you casualties and forces much more careful movement while rallying helps it maintain positions when i target its strategically important units. I've tried raising Ai experience before but i think you are then rewarded in kind for killing its better units and your own experience sky rockets later on. These settings are mainly an attempt to limit that effect, don't know if the experiment will work but I'm having fun.
It's definately very tough now, Artillery is absolutely vital. Casualties got so heavy during an assault that i couldnt make the final flags and some platoons were relegated to secondary duties in order to preserve them. I'm actually playing as germany in H2H (a bit of topic here ) and wouldnt dare use these settings as the Russians for an 8.4 campaign. Thats just a death wish

(in reply to PimpYourAFV)
Post #: 16
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/17/2005 12:46:14 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		Long Campaign is still much similar to SP1 long campaign and perhaps the over-extension in the core force distorts the gaming pleasure. In SP1 it worked fine, but you could buy only 23 units with the command Squad.

I have not finished a single long campaign in SPWAW, I feel it gets boring after some missions completed. It has nice moments, but I feel the "poor Stumbling Colossus" is the Long Campaign itself.

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Post #: 17
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/17/2005 4:57:34 PM   
KNomad


Posts: 339
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Buffalo, NY USA
Status: offline
quote:

Wow KNomad, do you really limit your purchase to 1000 points?


Yes I do. I work with the concept of one rifle company supporting one light recon company. All artillery, towed guns, and other "divisional assets" are purchased with support/reinforcement points.



_____________________________

The gnome zaps a wand of death. (Nethack)
Don't get hurt! (XCOM: Apocolypse)
Incoming firepower has the Right of Way!
Fire at Will (or Wesley)!

(in reply to Puukkoo)
Post #: 18
RE: The Poor "Stumbling Colossus" of the Russ... - 10/20/2005 1:37:32 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

PS I'm gonna get some Russian music to go along with this theme. Something from "Alexander Nevsky", perhaps?


Some really good stuff that gets you into the right mood can be downloaded from:

http://sovmusic.km.ru/english/marsh.htm

In particular I like the "March of the Soviet Tankists", the perfect counterpart to the german "Panzerlied"!

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RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

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Post #: 19
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