Tropsbor
Posts: 18
Joined: 9/29/2005
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quote:
- From 42 onwards, even elite Romanian infantry is still not as good as soviet conscripts so i think theres a problem there.
- With experience at 30/40, tanks will fire only twice when opening attacks. Once engaged they will only get one shot per turn and have no chance of adjusting their targetting system (so why bother with giving their tanks optical ratings, they can't use them anyway). The Infantry may get one more odd shot here and there but often don't shoot at all !
- With morale at 30, troops will abandon heavy entrenched positions to get mowed down out in the open with the slightest pressure applied, don't bother using artillery on them you won't need it (in fact don't bother buying it unless you are also a minor).
- Gun troops will also abandon their weapon when hit by some sustained rifle fire and won't rally (No problem, the gun they were manning was useless anyway ).
- With this performance on the field a terrible player using majors (with the better equipment) easily beats good generals playing the minor countries. Little opportunity is available to use your skills and tactics, Result is already written in 8.4 before opening shot is fired.
Many factors contributed to the minor nations poor records in combat, most outside of WAWs tactical scope. The Stalingrad debacle (previously cited as historical evidence by some here ) was not the fault of Romanian infantry man. He was targetted because of his poor position on a flank that was way overextented, by a massive force well supported by T34's and artillery. Sounds to me like German leadership is more in question here, not the bravery of poor Romanian sods in the firing line and yet they are blamed and penalized for it ? GEEZ whats going on here
I think many should actually try generated battles as Italy vs UK 43 or Romania instead of just yelling out thats history (Gunny ?) nor do i don't find it funny that minor nations have degenerated into such a farce with latest version of WAW and that so many here treat them with such contempt (actually its a rather sad comentary).
Hi soldier,
You make several good points.
Like I wrote in my previous post, the Romanian Army should not be seen as homogenous. You could say it had two faces: one representing the insufficiently trained conscripts (the vast majority) and the other one representing the professional soldiers who formed about 20% of the army. The soldiers depicted in 8.4 are obviously conscripts as you can tell from their morale, experience and leadership stats. In their case, I would definitely increase the morale, but leave the experience as poor as it is. But, like you, I find it very unfair that the professional side of the army is misrepresented in WAW (possibly due to game limitations). Yes, the Mountain Hunters and Cavalry troops get their +10 morale/experience bonus as any elite troop, but when you consider that the generic ratings are in the 30-40 range, the +10 bonus is really nothing. This needs urgent attention. The gap between conscripts and professionals was a lot bigger. Some conscripts could not even tell their own tanks and planes from the enemy's, and as a result, they fired on their own forces! On the other hand, the professional soldiers (mainly the mountain, cavalry, armored units) were a different lot due to their longer and higher-degree training. Check their combat records and you'll see what I mean:
quote:
Manoiliu commanded the 4th Mountain Division, which under his leadership cleared Soviet defenses at Balaclava in the Crimea, taking over ten thousand prisoners including virtually the entire Soviet 109th Rifle Division.
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Hristea commanded the famed 2nd Calarasi Cavalry Regiment, which during the Battle of Stalingrad defended an eighty-kilometer stretch of front for the embattled Romanian 4th Army. Incredibly, Hristea held this sector against Soviet attacks for nearly a month before being forced to withdraw. Hristea himself suffering grievous maiming wounds while leading his troops against heavy Soviet armor, in one instance firing his pistol at a KV-1 tank.
quote:
During mopping up operations of the Eltigen beachhead in the Kuban in 1943, a force of 820 Soviet troops broke out of their encirclement in the direction of Soviet-held enclave at nearby Ganikale. Overrunning German artillery batteries on Mount Mithridates, this force quickly jeopardised the entire German ring at Eltigen. Mociulschi assembled a force from elements of the 6th Mountain Division and the 9th Rosiori (cavalry) Regiment, personally leading them in a counterattack upon the Soviets, obliterating enemy forces and saving the local sector from disaster.
quote:
Teodorini commanded the 6th Cavalry Division during mopping up operations of the Soviet Eltigen beachhead in the Kuban in 1943; his Division counted over 1,200 dead on the battlefield and captured some 1,570 prisoners along with a cache of equipment such as 38 tanks and 25 antitank guns, many of which were subsequently pressed into Romanian service.
These are only a few examples (all four from Feldgrau.com).
This said, I would increase their stats (including leadership, rally, etc.) to be on par with german troops. I wonder if Michael Wood can do this. Like I said, +10 morale/exp is not enough considering the generic stats. The bonus would need to be 3 times bigger but it can't since the limit is 10 afaik. It would involve creating two versions of the same nation, each with different generic stats. One to reflect the conscript force and the other, the professional side with its own oob set. Weird! I hope someone can come up with a better idea...
Another thing.
Like soldier wrote, the tanks need to be revised too because their stats are abyssmal. Romanian tankers were at least as good Russian tankers, yet they get their ass wooped royally in WAW.
This happened sometime during the opening of the Jassy-Kishinev Operation, when morale and experience (according to WAW stats) were at their lowest.
quote:
The 1st Tank Regiment was the spearhead of the counter-attack launched by gen. Korne's 1st Armored Division against the flank of the Soviet tank columns. At about 10 am, the regiment ran into a Soviet tank formation near the Scobalteni village and engaged it. The fighting lasted until 8 pm (10 hours) and the casualties were high: 60 Soviet tanks, 20 Romanian tanks. After several IS tanks were knocked out, the Soviets chose to disengage. It is not known how many tanks did slt. Dumitru destroy that day, but given his performance in other battles the following days, probably at least one.
This is an excerpt taken from a thread dedicated to Romanian tank aces at the Axis History forum. You will find many other examples there.
A Romanian tank ace
And two heated discussions about the effectiveness of the Romanian troops.
Effectiveness of Romanian Troops
Italians and Romanians running away
Happy reading :D
What do you think?
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RE: 3 years and nothing changed - 
). 
) was not the fault of Romanian infantry man. He was targetted because of his poor position on a flank that was way overextented, by a massive force well supported by T34's and artillery. Sounds to me like German leadership is more in question here, not the bravery of poor Romanian sods in the firing line and yet they are blamed and penalized for it ? GEEZ whats going on here 
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