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The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/29/2005 8:10:33 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		The silent majority of SPWaW players play solo vs the AI --this has been proven . Speaking up for those of us in the silent majority: Mike is working on some new tweaks, but I can attest that the beta version of 8.5 is looking really good. You guys will be very pleased with the next patch. Time frame for release is unknown.

Keep the faith, my friends. All good things require patience.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 10/29/2005 8:22:35 AM >

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/29/2005 1:01:31 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		That's good to hear. It can't but improve.

I noticed one day while playing SPWW2 that the AI tends to select different attack route if it faces too angry reception committee at one location. This sounds brighter than it really is, for usually the AI gets bogged down even more.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/29/2005 4:08:11 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
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From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

The silent majority of SPWaW players play solo vs the AI --this has been proven . Speaking up for those of us in the silent majority: Mike is working on some new tweaks, but I can attest that the beta version of 8.5 is looking really good. You guys will be very pleased with the next patch. Time frame for release is unknown.

Keep the faith, my friends. All good things require patience.


8.5 along with Depot Multi Mod 2 is great for long campaigns...or pbem



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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/29/2005 7:34:45 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		If its silent how has it been proven And so what if it is a majority

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/29/2005 7:58:00 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
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From: Seinäjoki, Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

If its silent how has it been proven And so what if it is a majority


You don't have to consult exact sources while stating it that way. I believe that the long campaign is what people play in SPWAW for the most. No one has made yet made a poll about gaming customs.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/29/2005 8:09:35 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Actually, Glenn did do a poll awhile back about it, and more people voted for AI play than email play. This is what he is referencing.

Glenn, what scares me is the KG curse... Whenever you claim You guys will be very pleased with the next patch, things don't go well...


Goblin

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/29/2005 10:05:19 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
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From: Greenwood, Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Actually, Glenn did do a poll awhile back about it, and more people voted for AI play than email play. This is what he is referencing.

Glenn, what scares me is the KG curse... Whenever you claim You guys will be very pleased with the next patch, things don't go well...


Goblin

I been testing it too...so far so good...the tank assualting problem is gone
as is snipers being able to assualt tanks with sniper rifles...LOL
I feel/hope more will implemented in a further build.


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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/29/2005 10:51:58 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Actually, Glenn did do a poll awhile back about it, and more people voted for AI play than email play. This is what he is referencing.

Glenn, what scares me is the KG curse... Whenever you claim You guys will be very pleased with the next patch, things don't go well...


Goblin


Well, in the past, the "KG curse" has come back to bite me on the butt, without a doubt. This time around, though, NO OOB changes are involved. My input is restricted to testing only. This is Mike Wood's baby -- Alby and I are just involved to give feedback and offer encouragement.

So, I'm happy with sitting back, enjoying the show, and once in a while shouting "OOH-RAH"!

BTW,


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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/30/2005 4:33:10 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
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From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		I believe I will!

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/30/2005 4:45:46 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		I've always known solo play was more popular than mp for just about all games for quite a long time. (pats self on back). ;) (now runs and hides from the mp groupies) haha

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Post #: 10
RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/30/2005 3:58:51 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Ok I still don't get it, ofcourse more players play solo, thats how you have to learn plus many just prefer it. Whats the point of the thread? What changes are being made?

I play the long campaign, are they going to allow for expanding the core ?

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/30/2005 5:07:22 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		400 units is not enough for you? Setting the battle points from the preferences screen allows you to buy more units if those 6000 points meet nobody's requirements.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/30/2005 5:29:38 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
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From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		I think VikingNo2 is refering to increasing your core force during the campaign, by adding extra formations. The SPWW2 and SPMBT games allow you to do this, IIRC.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/30/2005 6:00:28 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
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From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		I see.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/31/2005 4:53:08 AM   
KNomad


Posts: 339
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Buffalo, NY USA
Status: offline 		What I'd like to see is the AI to have the ability to manage small forces. I like to play with about 1000 points for the core (1 infantry company + 1 AFV platoon) and all I ever seem to draw for missions is Delays. Luck of the draw can't be that consistently bad, there has to be a reason. I'm guessing that the only way AI can get enough points for purchase is to take Advances, as that allows her what, 1500 points?



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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/31/2005 12:03:31 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		If AI used infiltrators and other nasty surprises it could endear me to play the long campaign again.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/31/2005 5:58:31 PM   
cadmus

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: Columbia, MD
Status: offline 		KG/Alby ...

Glad to hear your enthusiasm for 8.5. What does it do with regard to spotting? 8.4 feels like it's virtually impossible to spot enemy infantry until you're in the adjacent hex and they've opened fire on you, and, usually, caused heavy casualties. I don't want it to be too easy but now it seems unrealistically difficult.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 10/31/2005 11:22:49 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
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From: Greenwood, Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xeno

KG/Alby ...

Glad to hear your enthusiasm for 8.5. What does it do with regard to spotting? 8.4 feels like it's virtually impossible to spot enemy infantry until you're in the adjacent hex and they've opened fire on you, and, usually, caused heavy casualties. I don't want it to be too easy but now it seems unrealistically difficult.

actually the spotting was INCREASED in 8.4
It made it next to impossible for infrantry to move next to a tank from any direction..
what do you have your spotting preferences set to?



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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 12:54:12 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby


quote:

ORIGINAL: xeno

KG/Alby ...

Glad to hear your enthusiasm for 8.5. What does it do with regard to spotting? 8.4 feels like it's virtually impossible to spot enemy infantry until you're in the adjacent hex and they've opened fire on you, and, usually, caused heavy casualties. I don't want it to be too easy but now it seems unrealistically difficult.

actually the spotting was INCREASED in 8.4
It made it next to impossible for infrantry to move next to a tank from any direction..
what do you have your spotting preferences set to?




Yes, realistically speaking, in 8.5 the tendency to spot infantry has been reduced. The big bugaboo was the ability of snipers to close-assault tanks -- they can NO longer do this.

You gotta remember that tank-hunter infantry teams were meant to do just that -- this is why it is so essential to have covering infantry for advancing armor. Even without the close-assault teams, you still have to face hidden ATRs/bazookas and ATGs. Without the supporting infantry, the tanks are just half-blind armored elephants. Many of us have had to learn this simple common-sense tactical lesson the hard way.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 1:11:29 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Now, back to my original point: the OOBs in the 8.0 series were meant to be compatible (as best we could manage) for existing scenarios and the MCs, which are by default meant for solo play.

Many PBEM players prefer Panzer Leo's H2H, which was designed specifically for human vs human play. I think it's great, because no OOB set can really be a be-all and end-all. My philosophy for OOB design has always been that at least TWO separate OOB sets needed to be constructed -- one with the AI formations for solo play, and the other for PBEM play, with additional choices in units/formations without regard to AI selection. The official Matrix OOB teams opted for a middle ground, which, to my mind, was unsatisfactory for both needs. Subsequent individual revisions have attempted to reconcile these differences, but , as of yet, no definitive "vs AI" as opposed to "vs human" OOB sets have been issued, except for H2H.

However, I would venture to say that the final 8.3 Matrix OOBs were leaning in favor of solo players. Michael's subsequent tweaks to the game engine were/are also geared with this in mind.

Thus, the old complaints about impenetrable smoke and such need to be construed within the context of giving the dumb AI any advantage it can get -- I'm sorry if it's unrealistic, but it does help for a more challenging game.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/1/2005 1:24:57 AM >

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 1:19:48 AM   
Riun T

 

Posts: 1848
Joined: 7/31/2004
Status: offline 		OHHHHHHH, Gunny 7th turn in long camp playing as canadians with 8.4 and at this the 12th battle, location of BARDIA north africa. Its 11:00 in the morning of 04/13/42 hot and hazy with visablity at 9 hex. Thankfully its a german delay and they didn't lay any mines cause for all my units being vetran to elite by now they sure can't SPOT or SHOOt Hoot,,, even after two or three bursts of squad sized stuff lighting up the whole ten O clock position of the recieving platoons field of view to the tune of 6 casualties before getting any oppertunity for any of the units even RECCE to return fire??? RTMUSTA BEEN REAL HAZY!!??

< Message edited by Riun T -- 11/1/2005 1:23:08 AM >

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 1:45:36 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Riun, I'm hoping that Michael can implement user-created national ratings for 8.5. Mogami mentioned the core problem -- it isn't that certain nations are rated too low, but that the Germans are too good. HOWEVER, without these higher ratings, the Germans can't recreate the victories of the Blitzkrieg years without being given complete air superiority, which SPWaW doesn't simulate very well. Besides that, we don't want a slew of tactical aircraft dominating the ground battle, do we?

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 3:55:09 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
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From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		I have the British in 1940 to be terrible shots even at only 150 yards. I am into a battle an assault against the germans at Arras. I have yet to get anykind of a force thru the mine fields. even tho i have breached it north south and middle. When ever i move thru i am met by killing fire from the german side where i cant even hit them at 150 yards. If i open up on them after sightinrg i miss and they return and take out half the squad. This is even after i have dropped numerous shells on there locations. I am getting next to no suppresssion either by firing or by bombardment. I know i have lost this battle too many of my troops have died and also way too much loss in equipment. I will never have the points to fix or replace what I have lost. I asm getting so depressed with not being able to move let alone take any objectives. I am about ready to recreat my core and start the whole campaign over. I have never done this in all the years i have played this game. But this has become more then i can bear to watch all my men getting shot to pieces.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 4:04:55 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		All right. Robot, remember-- the Germans won in 1940. You are NOT meant to win, and that's it. The Allies get their revenge in 1944-45. Defeats like this only encourage you more to take it out on those nasty Germans later. Think of what the Americans at Wake Island thought about those Japanese who overwhelmed them. The revenge factor does play a part.

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 7:20:48 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Robot I have to agree with KG on that. Historical battles are best fought from the winning side. Unless it is a "What If" scenario that gives you extra forces or something special.
I like to play as French May 1940 but with different tactics than the Generals of history.

Edit to add, back on topic, I will be glad when changes stop for good. How can a designer produce scens that test well only to have them messed up by changes to the game?
As far as I can tell, all the OOB mods can only be used in user generated scens. Correct or educate me if I am wrong.

< Message edited by junk2drive -- 11/1/2005 7:26:02 AM >

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 5:17:10 PM   
soldier

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Actually I think H2H is better for a German campaign player against the AI with historic ratings on. In 8.4 your guys are nearly twice as experienced as the Poles, then French and then against the Russians. I got to 42 in 8.4 but couldnt recreate any tough battles on the eastern front. The Russians just couldnt hit my tanks and their infantry often did'nt fight at all and ran.
If 8.5 is serious about providing a better campaign game against the AI there will be some WIDER MAPS. I don't think the sniper change alters the equation against the AI that much. Too bad smoke will be left solid as I enjoy play against human opponents too and feel its unrealistic at present when players through up the force field (oh well).

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Post #: 26
RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 8:07:26 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Being not ment to win? ! If its difficult to win I can see it but not ment to win ? Why play, why not just watch the history channel. Anyway I still don't know why you keep stating the Germans are too high and the minor with the new values are better. Its not a 0-100 scale. If it was then maybe things would be about right. They need to increase, these changes don't effect the AI/solo player nearly as much as the PBEM player. But I guess the silent majority doesn't care.

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Post #: 27
RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 11:08:08 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		This thread made me realize a startling fact about my personal Steel Panthers history.

10 years (one incarnation or another), and i've yet to play 1 full PBEM game.

Yeah...AI play is important to me

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 11:21:06 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Never?!?

Nik you surprise me!

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RE: The Best Version for Solo Players - 11/1/2005 11:41:46 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		well keep in mind, before WAW, there were just a scattering of SP related websites, i checked over a few of the ones that had "ladders" for PBEM competition but i never warmed to them. Most seemed interested in their current status in the rankings more than getting in a good historical feeling game, a view which only got solidified after the one PBEM game I tried to play (with the orig SP no less!) ended with my "experienced" PBEM opponent dropping off the face of the earth after a well hidden AT gun i'd placed started brewing his T-34 spearhead. No resignation, no apology, no email.....just gone.

That combined with the slow pace of the PBEM and lack of replay just turned me off. Now when SPIII came out, i got more interested because TCP play became supported. Tried one game there.....got through 3/4 of the game then a buddy of the opponent joined in, they started conversing and promptly put me on ignore.

The AI may not play very imaginatively but at least its always there for me when i come home from a long day at work and want to wittle away some time making things go Boom. The mega campaigns are particularily satisfying...very well designed.

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