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July IJN CV airgroups upgrade

 
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July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/1/2005 10:08:23 AM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		In july, my 72 planes CVs "upgraded" while at sea:
from 24 Zeros/24 Vals/24 Kates (72 planes)
to 24 Zeros/24 vals/18 Kates (66 planes!!)
Weren't they supposed to upgrade to 27/27/18 ?
I've tried to land the airgroups, dock the CVs...nothing changed.
Is this normal? what can I do?
Thanks for any help.
Post #: 1
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/1/2005 11:10:10 AM   
kkoovvoo

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		I think it is ok.

Zeros and Vals groups should be already (27) in brackets.
You wernet in port to reinforce those groups, so you are 3 planes short for each group.

18 Kates are ready now, other six Kates were put in reserve.

When you will get to port with 20000 supplies, you wil have:
27 zeros
27 vals
24 kate (6 of them reserve)

(in reply to NemRod)
Post #: 2
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/1/2005 3:59:00 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

27 zeros
27 vals
24 kate (6 of them reserve)


Actually I believe it would be 27VF, 27VB, 18VT = 72

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Post #: 3
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/1/2005 4:18:15 PM   
kkoovvoo

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		yes, that will be standard number of planes.

I just wanted to point up that

1. composition before upgrade is 24/24/24
2. composition after upgrade is 27/27/18 - but those six Kates (if your VT group is full) dont go back to pool but stay with group. So the group has 18 kates active and 6 in reserve.

So when you get back to port your CV is a bit overload because three zeros and three vals will be added to VFs and VBs to raise their number to 27 and six Kates dont go back to pool but stay with the group.

It wont cause problems because CVs with 115 percent aircraft can still operate them.

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Post #: 4
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/1/2005 6:08:21 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		I get it

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Post #: 5
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 3:22:19 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		Here is my current situation (7 20 42) for Zeroes/Vals/kates

Akagi 24/24/18 :66 planes
kaga 24/24/24 :72 planes
Shok,Zuik 24/27/18 :69 planes
Soryu 23/23/21 :67 planes! ( yes more than Akagi and more than her capacity!!)
Hiryu 23/21/21 : 65 planes
(These are the number of planes allowed for each squadron not the actual number of planes.)

Is this normal?What is the proper procedure for these "upgrades"?
I must add I landed the squadrons in may/june for training purpose and disbanded some land based fragments into some of them but nothing wrong happened then. All was fine till july.

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Post #: 6
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 3:37:01 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Airgroup composition on IJN CVs changes automatically on 7/1/42. The maximum strength of the new groups is:

fighter unit 37.5% of CVs capacity
dive bomber 37.5% of CVs capacity
torpedo unit 25% of CVs capacity

You can exceed a CVs capacity by 15% (round down) with no penalty. So Soryu (capacity 63) can operate with 72 a/c aboard.

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Post #: 7
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 3:50:58 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		The numbers above are NOT the actual numbers of planes on my ships but the aircraft allowed for each squadron, I'm not speaking of planes in excess.
With my current situation Soryu can launch a larger strike than Akagi or Hiryu and larger than his own capacity.And all but Soryu, Hiryu and Kaga (she didn't change at all) will launch strikes smaller than what they could do in June. There must be something wrong and I'd like to know if I must do something special to see the upgrade happening correctly.

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Post #: 8
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 3:58:53 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Pretty strange; when it happened to me it happened all at once, and ended up exactly as described. What scenario are you running? What are you patched to?

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Post #: 9
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 4:04:05 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		Scenario 15. Patch is now 1.77 but I think I was using 1.602 when I noticed the changes.My ships were I sea and I hoped all would be fine after reaching a port.

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Post #: 10
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 4:06:49 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Are the air units all "independent" or have some of them switched to other commands? All air units are the original ones for each CV?

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Post #: 11
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 4:12:05 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		Yes they are all "independent" and the original ones.

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Post #: 12
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 4:16:22 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

I landed the squadrons in may/june for training purpose and disbanded some land based fragments into some of them but nothing wrong happened then.


This shouldn't make any difference, this is just what you have to do to keep them at full strength.

I'm out of ideas. At least it is not unusable.

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Post #: 13
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 4:27:10 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		The superSoryu and Hyriu almost compensate the disminished Akagi, Shok and Zuik.But if it's a bug who knows if any plane will fly?
If I understand well all is supposed to happen automatically on first of July, you have nothing special to do like landing squadrons, docking ships etc..right?

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Post #: 14
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 5:45:39 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Happened to me on 7/01, while at sea in the middle of an operation, all carriers simultaneously. This was not at all helpful. But the units did all change properly at least.

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Post #: 15
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/5/2005 11:39:29 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		I think you have to be in a port with a shipyard with less than 5 sys damage to have upgrades occur properly. In this game I am Nemrod's opponent and two of my US CV's not in a US controlled shipyard port had problems with the July aircraft upgrades as well.

Not only did the fighter groups increase to 36 planes, but fragments of 9 fighters were created on land and automatically added to the CV's a day later putting total capacity way over the top. I've been trying to reduce those fighter groups ever since by having them fly long range CAP missions to increase their op losses.

Try docking in a shipyard with 20k plus supply and leaving them for a few days and see if that helps.

Jim


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Post #: 16
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/6/2005 12:04:44 AM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks, Jim but they have been docked at a well supplied shipyard for several days and it doesn't change. Iwill wait a little bit more.Only Akagi is over 5 syst damage. But isn't all this related with ship upgrades.I thougth squadron upgrades were something completely different.

An idea to solve your problem without op losses: lzand your squadron and load it into an AK. then unload and wait for the required number of planes to be repaired. Then load the squadron on Cv and the fragment in excess on the AK and keep it there as a reserve (you will need them, beleive me).

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Post #: 17
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/6/2005 12:23:53 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NemRod
But isn't all this related with ship upgrades.I thougth squadron upgrades were something completely different.


I had thought so too, but when the Hornet's fighter group had the same problem in SF, the group automatically reduced itself to 36 planes the next day, so I suspect those large shipyards have something to do with their air groups as well.

Thanks for the tip, I’ll try it. Problem is fragments seem to move on their own when trying to merge with their parent groups (that’s how the 9 plane fragments moved in the first place), but I’ll give it a try.

Jim


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Post #: 18
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/6/2005 12:11:51 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		With USN CV groups restructure, the CV needs to be disbanded in a port in which the bases's HQ is also present. A shipyard is not required for the air group change. Of course, it is needed for CV ship upgrade. [SF - West Coast, PH - CentPac, etc]

With the IJN, I don't know of any other conditions apart from the date of changeover.

The last thing I noticed about the CV group restructure is that the planes in the groups need to be repaired.
I had CV Wasp arrive in PH in 1943 with a '42 CV group structure(4 groups). The first thing that happened is that the planes in the VF group upgraded. And then nothing happened to the groups until the planes in VF had repaired. Then the groups restructured to the '43 group structure (3 groups).

Michael

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 19
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/6/2005 3:49:18 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		I'm considering to solve my problem by simply adding a lad based chutai on the Akagi.She would then operate 75 planes instead of 66.
Can anyone confirm there is no problem for an IJN carrier to operate 4 groups?

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 20
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/6/2005 5:39:52 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		yes, IJN CVs will be operational with 4 groups. I think max is 5 groups on single CV but not more than 115% of the capacity.

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Post #: 21
RE: July IJN CV airgroups upgrade - 11/6/2005 9:41:03 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		The max number of air units is 6 (for a CV, not sure for CVL & CVE) and the carrier can operate up to 115% of it's capacity and carry twice it's capacity.

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Post #: 22
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