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Informal POLL Re: Oscar

 
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Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/8/2005 11:47:31 PM   
TheElf


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Just curious what everyone thinks about the Oscar.

As the Allies do you fear it in 41'? Do you respect it in 43'? Should you in either case?

As the IJA do you lament it in 41' or commend it? How bout 43'? Should you in either case?


Do you think this is how it should be? If not, how should the Oscar be represented with say an experienced (70+EXP) unit in 41'? How bout that same unit (70+)in 43'? or with green (40-50EXP)Aircrew?

Does anyone out there who has used the Nik mod disagreed or been blownaway by his tweaks?

Be as explicit as you can. Feel free to site sources to back up your statements.

Thanks...




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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/8/2005 11:51:34 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Just curious what everyone thinks about the Oscar.

As the Allies do you fear it in 41'? Do you respect it in 43'? Should you in either case?

As the IJA do you lament it in 41' or commend it? How bout 43'? Should you in either case?


Do you think this is how it should be? If not, how should the Oscar be represented with say an experienced (70+EXP) unit in 41'? How bout that same unit (70+)in 43'? or with green (40-50EXP)Aircrew?

Does anyone out there who has used the Nik mod disagreed or been blownaway by his tweaks?

Be as explicit as you can. Feel free to site sources to back up your statements.

Thanks...



As an Allied player in early 1942 (playing standard game), i rather like the Oscar. It gives me lots of Victory Points!

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Post #: 2
RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:02:26 AM   
tsimmonds


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I like them, because:

1) They are pretty.
2) They upgrade to Tony.

I hate using them though. They are okay for CAP to keep unescorted bombers at bay. I might use them as bomber escorts if they don't have to fly very far, and if there is only garbage defending at the other end. Mainly they are good only as a deterrent, and to train pilots to fly Tonys.

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:04:08 AM   
RUPD3658


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Better than using Nates.

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:05:18 AM   
Mynok


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What he said......

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:07:44 AM   
FeurerKrieg


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Much better than Nates. I'm not too far into the game yet, but they seem to be reasonably useful in the early going, providing LRCAP to TFs cruising around Borneo/Singapore where the occasional small Martin/TIVa raid needs to be beaten back.

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:13:38 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Useless. I use them just in the very early stages of the war, when they face only unexperienced Buffalos or dutch planes. After the fall of Singapore they are all put into China where they stand a chance against made in russia planes, but mostly for training pourposes...those guys will have to fly Tonies and Tojos and i want them in a good shape!

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:39:15 AM   
Oznoyng

 

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I regard the Oscar and Nate as trainers for my Tojo's and Tony's. In a pinch, I will throw Oscars against anything below P-40's and Hurricanes. Against P-40's, Hurricanes, or anything better, they grant too many VP to the Allies.

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:42:55 AM   
TheElf


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I'm hearing a lot of "this is what I use them for", but I haven't heard a lot of "I think this is how it should be", or "In 41' I think the Oscar should be a frontline fighter anywhere as it was IRL".

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:48:39 AM   
mc3744


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I'm no expert on WWII fighters.

What I can say is that from the couple of books I read on the topic in the game the Oscar seem to under-perform with regard to history. But again I've little knowledge.

In my game as Allies they bother me only as CAP vs. unescorted bombers ar Irrelevant already pointed out.

As Jap I try to use them against unescorted bombers

They suck for everything else. I had 80+ exp Oscars shot down by Brewsters.
I was watching the BBC box set on WWII (great btw). there was an interview of British pilots fighitn in Burma.
One of them said, with the Buffalo's you were lucky to come back alive if you encoutered bad weather, let alone enemy fighters!

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 12:51:57 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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I think the ability of Japanese players to use zeroes in roles IRL delegated to oscars means that they are not used unless necessary. (Thats down to a mix of production surpluses/no army navy competition and I think a tendency for Sir Robins by Allied players even in small ways)

Even in non PDU games I rarely see them in 42 never mind 43 as allies.

They are a match for most Allied fighters in early 42 but after Spits arrive even in Burma they are outclassed so I never see them. No Japanese player is going to waste valuable trained pilots in Oscars.

Andy

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 1:27:51 AM   
Alikchi2

 

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I see them performing horrible next to Hurricanes and P-40s. The Oscars seem good enough to deal with Chinese fighters and Buffalos but that's about it.

I think that these aircraft should at the very least be able to hold their own. I've always believed that the Zero bonus should apply to ALL Japanese fighters in the early war, not just the Zero.



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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 1:39:43 AM   
jwilkerson


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As IJA/N I use Oscar as

(1) Smoke and Mirrors - by putting them at bases that aren't being attacked, the Oscars provide the illusion of a defence ( reports of fighters ! ).

(2) Cannon fodder - By stocking a base with say 2 Tony units, a Tojo unit and 3 Oscar units ... I get numbers ... and guys who die and protect the big boys ... the numbers helps .. and having the T&T fighers survive also helps. Then I can train up some more Oscars in China and then ship them to the front.

It is not clear to me that Oscars perform substaintially a-historically. Oscar was woefully underarmed for a WWII fighter - Italian fighters had similar problem.

I'd put piles of things on the list in front of fixing Oscars !




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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 4:53:19 AM   
m10bob


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The Oscar should be a match for most Allied planes early on.(I went into detail in another thread, which you(Elf) already are aware of).

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/nakaoscar.htm

BTW, here is a good page where another gamer has taken aviation physics of WW2 planes and quantified the performance statistics for each, giving a fairly accurate comparison of the planes.

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/

< Message edited by m10bob -- 11/9/2005 5:09:37 AM >


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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 6:35:48 AM   
erstad

 

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No-one's mentioned my favorite feature of the oscar.

They have the ceiling to take on high altitude B-17s. Particularly high altitude B-17s that are bombing your oil.

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 6:38:16 AM   
Knavey

 

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How many B-17s were shot down by Oscars?

Going to bet that more Oscars were shot down by B-17s than the other way.

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 7:00:39 AM   
TheElf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

The Oscar should be a match for most Allied planes early on.(I went into detail in another thread, which you(Elf) already are aware of).

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/nakaoscar.htm

BTW, here is a good page where another gamer has taken aviation physics of WW2 planes and quantified the performance statistics for each, giving a fairly accurate comparison of the planes.

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/


Interesting sites. Hoof's site in particular speaks to me as his break down of aircraft performance reads like the BFM chapter in the Navy's Top Gun Manual.

What I found interesting is that both sites view the Oscar as "An excellent fighter for it's time" (Early War)

"In combat, the Hayabusa was superior to any opposing fighter it encountered in the initial part of the war. The OSCAR remained formidable even as better Allied aircraft entered the fray."


and

"Although not well known compared to the A6M Zero fighter, the Ki-43 was a formidable aircraft, particularly during the early war years."

Hoof even goes on the say "An excellent fighter of the time, it was superior to the Zero in almost every regard except firepower." -- This statement alone seems to support applying the Zero bonus at least to the Oscar too.

I'd wager that this post in this particular thread will be the only place you'd see those kinds of remarks about OUR Oscar.

< Message edited by TheElf -- 11/9/2005 7:02:28 AM >


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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 7:08:00 AM   
jwilkerson


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What data do we have from the war regarding the performance of the Oscar in combat ??



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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 7:27:38 AM   
ChezDaJez


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If the Oscars had more formidible firepower, they might be worth something but as it is right now they are outgunned by a lot of recon aircraft. They are at best, a stop gap measure. Luckily, most of their opposition is also obsolete during the first few months.

Still, as others have said, they make great pilot trainers until Tony and Tojo come along.

Chez

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 7:29:41 AM   
ChezDaJez


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Well, we know the AVG feasted on them on several occasions. It wasn't that they couldn't maneuver and get hits. Its that when they did get hits, the firepower was just too weak to have any great effect on the P-40 and Hurricanes.

Chez

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 7:34:12 AM   
ChezDaJez


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quote:

"In combat, the Hayabusa was superior to any opposing fighter it encountered in the initial part of the war. The OSCAR remained formidable even as better Allied aircraft entered the fray."

and

"Although not well known compared to the A6M Zero fighter, the Ki-43 was a formidable aircraft, particularly during the early war years."

Hoof even goes on the say "An excellent fighter of the time, it was superior to the Zero in almost every regard except firepower." -- This statement alone seems to support applying the Zero bonus at least to the Oscar too.


And it was.... as far as maneuverability went. The Oscar was designed to dogfight Chinese biplanes and it could do that quite well. With its butterfly flaps, it could outturn a Zero. But what good is a plane that can get on your tail if it doesn't have the firepower to knock you down? Two 7.7mms aren't going to do much against enemy fighters sporting armor.

Perfect example of an airplane that can do everything asked of it in combat except shoot another plane down.

Chez

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 8:03:48 AM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

The Oscar should be a match for most Allied planes early on.(I went into detail in another thread, which you(Elf) already are aware of).

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/nakaoscar.htm

BTW, here is a good page where another gamer has taken aviation physics of WW2 planes and quantified the performance statistics for each, giving a fairly accurate comparison of the planes.

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/


Interesting sites. Hoof's site in particular speaks to me as his break down of aircraft performance reads like the BFM chapter in the Navy's Top Gun Manual.

What I found interesting is that both sites view the Oscar as "An excellent fighter for it's time" (Early War)

"In combat, the Hayabusa was superior to any opposing fighter it encountered in the initial part of the war. The OSCAR remained formidable even as better Allied aircraft entered the fray."


and

"Although not well known compared to the A6M Zero fighter, the Ki-43 was a formidable aircraft, particularly during the early war years."

Hoof even goes on the say "An excellent fighter of the time, it was superior to the Zero in almost every regard except firepower." -- This statement alone seems to support applying the Zero bonus at least to the Oscar too.

I'd wager that this post in this particular thread will be the only place you'd see those kinds of remarks about OUR Oscar.


Here is more info ref the Oscar's evaluation by the USAAF "in combat"..

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-air-support/ww2-enemy/oscar.htm

and this from the Thai government (which used it)

http://www.dmbcrtaf.thaigov.net/aircraft/Fighter/Ki27/ki43.htm

about half way down, an American account of how the 2 gunned Oscar downed a P 47 !!!

http://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/aircraft/p-47/6.html

< Message edited by m10bob -- 11/9/2005 8:37:38 AM >


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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 8:10:48 AM   
TheElf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

"In combat, the Hayabusa was superior to any opposing fighter it encountered in the initial part of the war. The OSCAR remained formidable even as better Allied aircraft entered the fray."

and

"Although not well known compared to the A6M Zero fighter, the Ki-43 was a formidable aircraft, particularly during the early war years."

Hoof even goes on the say "An excellent fighter of the time, it was superior to the Zero in almost every regard except firepower." -- This statement alone seems to support applying the Zero bonus at least to the Oscar too.


And it was.... as far as maneuverability went. The Oscar was designed to dogfight Chinese biplanes and it could do that quite well. With its butterfly flaps, it could outturn a Zero. But what good is a plane that can get on your tail if it doesn't have the firepower to knock you down? Two 7.7mms aren't going to do much against enemy fighters sporting armor.

Perfect example of an airplane that can do everything asked of it in combat except shoot another plane down.

Chez


These are very good points, and I agree, to a degree. Unfortunately the Oscar NEVER seems to shoot Anything down. Even in the early war period vs. Aircraft that it is by all accounts at least on par with. It's just too ineffective to be believable. And I am an Allied player exclusively right now.

JWilkerson-
I have a book called Japanese Army Air Force Fighter units and their Aces 1931-1945 by two Japanese Dudes and Christopher Shores. It provides an excellent perspective on the Japanese side as far as "Sso many a/c took off, so many returned, and these are the claims they filed etc." I just dusted it off and am beginning to turn pages. I'll post any relevent passages.

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 8:19:58 AM   
jwilkerson


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I've got that one too - unfortunately it is still inna box waiting to be unpacked - after my basement gets finished hopefully this week or next ... I don't recall 10 pages of charts and tables in there that would really nail the "combat performance" data request .. but there might be some tid-bits. And please do post anything relevant.

From the Allied side - the allies weren't real great at IDing Japanese fighters early in the war ... almost everything was a "Zero" ... so taking everything literally from the front lines early on is sometimes mis-leading. Like AVG guys thought they were shooting at Zeroes .. but post-war research indicates there were no zeros there .. but mostly Oscars and Nates ... and data from the Japanese side is just scarce period.

We will probably get more data later in the war when the Allies got more organized and had more "intel" types near the front that knew how to gather the data. So over Burma and New Guinea there might be some data later on.

Oh here is a link that covers Oscar armament in as much detail as anyone would ever want ...


http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/rdunn/nakajima_ki43arm.htm

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 8:55:44 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Much better than Nates. I'm not too far into the game yet, but they seem to be reasonably useful in the early going, providing LRCAP to TFs cruising around Borneo/Singapore where the occasional small Martin/TIVa raid needs to be beaten back.


I agree with Bob. I'm playing a PBEM as Japanese and find Nates absolutely %100 useless. Oscars may not be the Uber-Zero but, as far as I can tell, they are better than Nates until Tojos and Tonys arrive. I'd rather carry on the first half of '42 with Oscars than with Nates.

As far as what their capabilities "should" be in the game, it sounds, from ChezDaJez's remarks that, though it shouldn't shoot many fighters down with its weak armament, with its excellent maneuverability it should at least bring most of its pilots back alive against many of the earlier Allied fighters.

Gary

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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 8:56:24 AM   
TheElf


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Ok, I’ve skimmed the early war period covered in this book. Here is what I’ve found. These are going to be short and sweet, but keep in mind, the only certainty are the losses of the IJAAF units. Claims are claims and not to be taken at face value.

Opening day of war

64th Sentai escorts Heavy bombers to targets in Malayan Pen.1st Lts Tadao and Yohei & Yonesaku share a Blenheim. (this sharing will be a theme when it comes to Oscar kills. Oscars in numbers can combine firepower so a single ship doesn’t necessarily have to bring a more “Durable” Allied a/c down by himself) Five more A/C claimed dest. On ground.

11 Ki-43s of 59th Sen. Escort light Bombers to Kota Bharu. 15 Buffs enaged over Tanah Merah, Six claimed downed. no losses.

21 Dec

59 Sen. Claims 4 of 4 Buffs encountered over Kuala Lumpur. No losses.

22 Dec

59 Sen. Claims 4 more Buffs downed or damaged. By the end of Dec 59th claims11 kills, 13 destroyed on the ground for the loss of two pilots(in a mid-air collision)

64 Sen. Claims 11 Buffs downed over Kuala Lumpur. Only loss being Lt Tadao Takayama’s Ki-43 as it’s wings were seen to fold “like a butterfly”

8 Jan

Of interest here, a Ki-27 pilot from 77 Sentai Claimed a Catalina shot down near Sinora. Just a claim, the thing could’ve landed in the sea, but no more details on its condition.

Over Singapore
“The 59th and 64th Sen, which had now moved to ipoh, also took part in the Attacks on Singapore from 12 Jan onwards, the 64th claiming 39 victories over the island, whilst the 59th also enjoyed some successes in the 3 days commencing 18 Jan, claiming 15 victories over Kuntan and other locations.” No losses mention in this passage

“The next objective following the Fall of Malaya and the investment of Singers, were the Sumatran Oil fields at Palembang. On 6 Feb the 59th and 64th moved to Kluan for ops over this target, sweeping over the area ion the 7th and 8th, when the 59th claimed 16 shot down and the 64th claimed 7, air superiority over the area thus being achieved. This allowed paratroop dropsto be made in the Palembang area on the 13th and 14th, escorted by Ki-43s of the 64th Sen.” -- Unfortunately no mention of their opponents is made. The assumption being they were Dutch Buffalos and Demons

East Indies
“The last stand in the East Indies was made on Java, and in order to extend control in the air over the western part of this island, the 59th and 64th Sen flew in to Plaembang on 18 Feb, claiming 33 kills between them during the period 19-25 Feb.”

“During the recent fightingthe 59th Sentai had suffered the loss of 9 pilots; its mainstay being a number of highly experienced NCO pilots, the pre-eminent amongst them Sgt Maj. Hiroshi Onozaki, their top-scorer with 10 victories”

This covers the start of the war to the end of the East indies campaign. I’ll post some more where the opponents are more modern fighters and heavy bombers later

I want everyone to appreciate that I typed all this crap myself. No copy and paste here baby!





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Post #: 26
RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 9:03:01 AM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Ok, I’ve skimmed the early war period covered in this book. Here is what I’ve found. These are going to be short and sweet, but keep in mind, the only certainty are the losses of the IJAAF units. Claims are claims and not to be taken at face value.

Opening day of war

64th Sentai escorts Heavy bombers to targets in Malayan Pen.1st Lts Tadao and Yohei & Yonesaku share a Blenheim. (this sharing will be a theme when it comes to Oscar kills. Oscars in numbers can combine firepower so a single ship doesn’t necessarily have to bring a more “Durable” Allied a/c down by himself) Five more A/C claimed dest. On ground.

11 Ki-43s of 59th Sen. Escort light Bombers to Kota Bharu. 15 Buffs enaged over Tanah Merah, Six claimed downed. no losses.

21 Dec

59 Sen. Claims 4 of 4 Buffs encountered over Kuala Lumpur. No losses.

22 Dec

59 Sen. Claims 4 more Buffs downed or damaged. By the end of Dec 59th claims11 kills, 13 destroyed on the ground for the loss of two pilots(in a mid-air collision)

64 Sen. Claims 11 Buffs downed over Kuala Lumpur. Only loss being Lt Tadao Takayama’s Ki-43 as it’s wings were seen to fold “like a butterfly”

8 Jan

Of interest here, a Ki-27 pilot from 77 Sentai Claimed a Catalina shot down near Sinora. Just a claim, the thing could’ve landed in the sea, but no more details on its condition.

Over Singapore
“The 59th and 64th Sen, which had now moved to ipoh, also took part in the Attacks on Singapore from 12 Jan onwards, the 64th claiming 39 victories over the island, whilst the 59th also enjoyed some successes in the 3 days commencing 18 Jan, claiming 15 victories over Kuntan and other locations.” No losses mention in this passage

“The next objective following the Fall of Malaya and the investment of Singers, were the Sumatran Oil fields at Palembang. On 6 Feb the 59th and 64th moved to Kluan for ops over this target, sweeping over the area ion the 7th and 8th, when the 59th claimed 16 shot down and the 64th claimed 7, air superiority over the area thus being achieved. This allowed paratroop dropsto be made in the Palembang area on the 13th and 14th, escorted by Ki-43s of the 64th Sen.” -- Unfortunately no mention of their opponents is made. The assumption being they were Dutch Buffalos and Demons

East Indies
“The last stand in the East Indies was made on Java, and in order to extend control in the air over the western part of this island, the 59th and 64th Sen flew in to Plaembang on 18 Feb, claiming 33 kills between them during the period 19-25 Feb.”

“During the recent fightingthe 59th Sentai had suffered the loss of 9 pilots; its mainstay being a number of highly experienced NCO pilots, the pre-eminent amongst them Sgt Maj. Hiroshi Onozaki, their top-scorer with 10 victories”

This covers the start of the war to the end of the East indies campaign. I’ll post some more where the opponents are more modern fighters and heavy bombers later

I want everyone to appreciate that I typed all this crap myself. No copy and paste here baby!






How do we know you didn't eat the paste ???


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(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 27
RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 4:02:23 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
Wow.

Elf you sure have been busy (By the way...I have loved playing the game with your artwork)

Since I don't wish to be portrayed as "preaching to the choir" vis-a-vis my mod, I'll just add this. Before anyone deems to pass judgement on the Ki-43, I'd strongly suggest reading Chris Shores entire Bloody Shambles series first. (just got Vol III......its 2/43 and the Ki-43 is still kicking ass and being dangerous) The A2A champion over Malaya and Sumatra during the early stages of the war was not the A6M.....it was the Ki-43. As Shores related, this plane's successes were totally overshadowed by the former plane, both at the front (where it was constantly mis-id'd as a "Type 0") and at home where the Zero fighter soaked up all the attention (Today it would be the equivilent of news about the M-1 Abrams, overshadowing the also very capable MBT's of our NATO allies)



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(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 28
RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 4:58:52 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline
My take on the OscarI is such:

In RL it was an effective fighter over Malaya. It more than handled what the Allies had in the area. Ironic that the Allies ASSUMED that Zero's were in Burma and achieving victories over Malaya. It was the Oscar that was doing this.

Now of course come mid war this puppy should be outclassed due to tactics and improved Allied planes but early war it should be an effective fighter in SRA/Burma.

Regards,

Steven

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(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 29
RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 11/9/2005 5:36:13 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

The A2A champion over Malaya and Sumatra during the early stages of the war was not the A6M.....it was the Ki-43


The Oscar certainly had some advantages and if it had better firepower it would have been a deadly opponent. As it was, it was simply way undergunned even when upgraded to two 12.7mms let alone with its initial armament of two 7.7mms. Had they even just installed four 12.7mms, the air war in Burma and New Guinea might have been quite different. Here's a good article on the Ki-43:

quote:

The Ki-43 was, in some ways, more dangerous to deal with than the A6M, chiefly
because it had a better rate of roll and was armed with two 12.7mm machineguns.
The P-40 driver with a Zero on his tail could usually break the contact with
an aileron roll. This was much less likely with the Ki-43. The Oscar boy
could plant himself behind the P-40 and stay there no matter what the Curtiss
driver did, all the while hammering .50 cal nails that could do some real
damage.
In contrast, the Zero pilot, even if he couldn't be shaken, was doing most of
his firing with rifle caliber mgs which did less damage (although enough of
them in the right places could do the job). The 20mms generally didn't come
into play unless the Zero was in point blank range. A way to stay out of
point blank range was to execute a series of violent aileron turns; this would
allow the P-40 pilot to gradually pull away from the Zero. Once he had
extended sufficiently, he could go into a fast, shallow climb and leave the
Zero behind.
The best bet for the P-40 driver was to have sufficient altitude to dive away
from either the Oscar or Zero, but that wasn't always the situation.
The Ki-43 had better wing loading and power loading than the Zero, had superior
initial acceleration, a better roll rate and a tighter turning circle. It also
had a substantially better rate of climb. That made it an awesome aerobatic
fighter that you absolutely, positively did not dare engage in a dogfight. It
also meant that if you bounced an Oscar and the pilot spotted you, he was
probably going to escape scott free because, should he choose to turn, he could
roll into a tight turn faster than you could follow, whereas if you bounced a
Zero, should he choose to turn, you could follow him, outrolling him and
staying with him for a considerable portion of his turn, often enough to do him
in. (In practice, Oscar and Zero drivers both generally preferred to snap up
into tight loops when bounced, leaving the P-40 driver the option of blowing on
by and clearing the vicinity or sticking around to get a Nip on his six.)
In a typical scenario early in the game, P-40s could be flying top cover for
B-26s flying at 9,000 ft. that were attacking an airstrip, note Oscars taking
off below, make a turn away from the B-26s to position themselves up-sun to
dive on the Oscars once they approached the bombers, turn and come back, taking
less than three minutes for the entire maneuver, and find the B-26s already
under attack from those Oscars they had seen just taking off. Amazing little
buggers.


So yes, it had its advantages but they just couldn't overcome its lack of firepower.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 30
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