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BoB wish list - 11/7/2005 11:16:08 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Thought I'd start this one going.......

1) More RAF FC airfields. The LW never even came close to shutting down FC, and the RAF had plans to use more bases if they tried. The German player WILL try.

2) Better map. The main fighting occurred over Kent ( SE England ) so why is that fragment of the map so appalling ?

3) Improved factory database. Some game ones are works of fiction.

4) Western radar stations added to remove an Axis spoiler tactic.

5) Better AA gun database ( H/M/L replaced by 4.5", 3.7", 3", bofors, pom-poms, 20mm and mgs like BTR standards ).

6) Convert Castle Bromwich to Spitfire II production.

7) Revamp the pilot database. There should be no need for computer generated "no-name aces"

8) blah .......

regards Otisabuser
Post #: 1
RE: BoB wish list - 11/8/2005 4:06:00 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		9) Update german Recon planes to BTR stats, use a cruise speed near their maximum to avoid beeing shot down too easily (but don't forget to recalculate range based on the new speed)

10) higher screen resolution (1024x768 instead of 800x600)

11) manual control to replace/upgrade aircraft with a different type

12) Fix the Defiant IA production (reequipment to night fighter?), they are listed as in production but do not produce

13) Add some italian planes, they had been there and should be included

14) Fix the german drop tank, it's listed as 66 gallon (66 gallon is not 300 litre), same error as in BTR

15) More OP points for both sides, at least 50 additional points (or even 100) should be available. You can't move many AA or air units with only 100 OP.

16) Modify damage model and repair rates, small and large targets have a somewhat equal chance of being hit and to receive damage and have the same repair rate. A small target should be easier to repair than a big target, a big target should be easier to hit but harder to damage (you have to hit a large area to inflict a great amount of damage), same in BTR

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Post #: 2
RE: BoB wish list - 11/8/2005 10:31:50 AM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Denniss,

quote:

15) More OP points for both sides.
15) More OP points for both sides.

This is something I would like, but had not really considered. There was little actual re-location of AA guns and limited airbase movement on either side in real life. I think this was down to the nature of the actual Comanders and the natural response to the situation they faced in the battle.

So if in the simulation, LW goes for airfields and plainly just airfields I do see justification to relocate more guns and units.

quote:

11) manual control to replace/upgrade aircraft with a different type


I often wonder why units such as 247 Squadron ( flight ) kept on with it's Gladiators when there were always sufficient Hurricanes in Fighter Command's pool to upgrade to !

The only upgrades I am aware of in real life were the Spit I to Spit II, and the Blenheim to Beaufighter. The later happens in the game.

Actually, the Blenheim units did not so much switch over by unit. Each NF unit was given a Beau for evaluation, then I think flights changed over.

I would like to be able to manually switch Defiants over from the dayfighter version to the nightfighter version. In fact NO, what I would really want would be to be able to operate the Defiants in either role ( without scrambling penalty ), subject to the usual rules regarding exhaustion and readiness.

cheers, Otisabuser

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Post #: 3
RE: BoB wish list - 11/8/2005 2:24:48 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi OB
for the map, I understand a lot of the action was over Kent, but what do you think should be changed ?, the map itself, the icons ?

if the map, we would have to change the whole map (not a bad idea, doable, I think) not sure about how to imput the locations, but they should)

FC AFs, I assume, you know what bases should be added and where they should go ?, if the bases were there, I got no hassle with adding them

part of the hassle with BTR is it has the same basic Eccon system as BoB did, then JC added a parts of a new system, JC, if he can, would like to redo, the whole system, so it can be balanced and it works the way, he wants it to (make it produce, make it use, make it need, then the system works and damage can hurt it, which, so saying, if it can be done for BTR, it could be carried backward to BoB, we will have to see)

so, yes, the Eccon data base should/could be improved

for the Glad's, I would think it was something simple like training, few units really did just change over in mid battle, and even fewer did so with a totally different plane type
(plus for the NF, it is a different thing, they didn't have to fly and fight together, so they would have a better chance of learning as they went)

I have a question on the number of planes FC has and the number of pilots in FC at the start of the game ( I remember there was a reason for the large stockpile, but forget at the moment)

plus the lack of planes, replacements for the GE side and the lack of pilots for the GE side

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RE: BoB wish list - 11/8/2005 2:57:52 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hi HS,

being from Kent myself, the SE portion of England always looked a bit skewed to me. I looked at the map when I sumbitted base changes ( with co-ordinates ) to JC for BTR. The BTR map shape for the UK was not too bad.

If you overlay a map of UK over the BoB map, however things are generally OK, but Kent and Sussex ( the sticky out bit in the SE ) is strangely poor. Also the location of London itself. See hoe the Thames and Medway estuaries are shown.

I was tempted to have a go at re-drawing the Southeast, when this all came along. However, nda's and all that.

New Airfields ? Yep I have em.

There is no reason that Gladiators should not change over to any other type that I can see. After all pilots came from OTUs with only about 4 hours on Spitfires or Hurricanes. They got their real acclimatisation to the type at Squadron. The real issue would be the retraining of the Ground crews and supply of spares for the new types.

Also, someone else pointed out that the Gladiator field ( Roborough ) was short and could not support modern S/E types.

The reason that there is a large pool Hurricanes and Spitfires at game start was thanks to good old RAF efficiency and pre-planning, along with adequate production levels and repair depots. ( God bless Lord Beverbrook ! )

regards Otisabuser

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Post #: 5
RE: BoB wish list - 11/8/2005 3:00:09 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Oh,

also there is also often not so much a lack of replacement pilots, but bizarre placement of available pilots by the exec.

regards Otis

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Post #: 6
RE: BoB wish list - 11/8/2005 3:30:17 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Don't forget to include Reading mate

Actually - in all seriousness. If the map was extended to a big enough size there are more urban areas that could be added. Would depend on what scale we want to go to though.

Steven

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Post #: 7
RE: BoB wish list - 11/8/2005 5:27:05 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Yea, I agree with that OB

but a quick look at the squadrons, and most of the English have 24 pilots to start with,they got to take a pounding to start to hurt, as they can only fly 12 planes

in my game I was running, I got a Gruppen with 49 pilots and the rest of JG has 20 each

I am not sure how the maps work, so I not sure how they can be upgraded



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Post #: 8
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 12:46:54 AM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hi HS,

quote:

I am not sure how the maps work, so I not sure how they can be upgraded


Erm. Should be surprisingly easy to do. I guess. ( I'll E-mail you on this ).

Speedy, putting in more smaller towns with the current system is not out of the question. The issue comes with how far would you take this. ie add in seaside resorts like Hastings, Eastbourne,Newhaven, Hythe, Lewes ( off the top of my head ) may be a good idea as they are

1) Within easy reach of LW so worth bombing { damn also Worth. So that's Hastings, Eastbourne,Newhaven, Hythe, Lewes and Worth }

2) if you do any reading of the period these will crop up { OK so that's Hastings, Eastbourne,Newhaven, Hythe, Lewes, Worth and also Reading }

3) As they are on LW approaches to just about everywhese else, then they serve as useful and realistic places to base Flak on { Clacton ? is best I can do here, sorry }

May upset the Northerners not to also include equally as large, if not larger more northerly, but in gaming terms, redundant locations.

regards Otisabuser

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Post #: 9
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 1:44:36 AM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, I'm gonna do it.........now's the time......here goes......

17) Have the Spitfire I equal in manouver value to the Bf 109 E-3

....anyone ?

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Post #: 10
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 4:49:56 AM   
harley


Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: otisabuser2

3) As they are on LW approaches to just about everywhese else, then they serve as useful and realistic places to base Flak on { Clacton ? is best I can do here, sorry }

regards Otisabuser


No banana for you. Close, but no...


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Post #: 11
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 11:16:04 AM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline
Hi Otis,

>17) Have the Spitfire I equal in manouver value to the Bf 109 E-3

Depends on what flight characteristics are encompassed by the Mvr rating. If the Mvr rating only includes characteristics in the horizontal plane I would say yes, if it includes the vertical plane as well then it isn't as cut and dried.

von Shagmeister

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Post #: 12
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 11:47:38 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: otisabuser2

Hi HS,

quote:

I am not sure how the maps work, so I not sure how they can be upgraded


Erm. Should be surprisingly easy to do. I guess. ( I'll E-mail you on this ).

Speedy, putting in more smaller towns with the current system is not out of the question. The issue comes with how far would you take this. ie add in seaside resorts like Hastings, Eastbourne,Newhaven, Hythe, Lewes ( off the top of my head ) may be a good idea as they are

1) Within easy reach of LW so worth bombing { damn also Worth. So that's Hastings, Eastbourne,Newhaven, Hythe, Lewes and Worth }

2) if you do any reading of the period these will crop up { OK so that's Hastings, Eastbourne,Newhaven, Hythe, Lewes, Worth and also Reading }

3) As they are on LW approaches to just about everywhese else, then they serve as useful and realistic places to base Flak on { Clacton ? is best I can do here, sorry }

May upset the Northerners not to also include equally as large, if not larger more northerly, but in gaming terms, redundant locations.

regards Otisabuser


Hi OB,

Thats right there has to be a limit on urban size below which won't be included. I do think we should focus on places in the south. Not much point in putting in Keswick or Llandudno for example IMO.

Southern coastal towns are a good idea since as you say they can also be used as flak points.

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Post #: 13
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 3:49:13 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		LOL you guys had me scared there for a moment

I bomb Hasting all the time, and then you say it is not there !

I can find Hasting, but not the others

okay then, as in BTR, what size are these areas ? do they have the own railhead of decent size, as in BTR, there are places there, that are not big enough to show, but are there

are any of these places close to any places that are on the map now, could they of combined them,or are they just plain missing ?

we get to the data base, we can see if we can add them (depending on map/loc )

we want to try and make sure we got the maps right, I think you already got a list of things that are not in the right places

ahhh the good old MVR

as VS says, it depends on what is being used to mean MVR, in the early days of this database, it had more to do with Firepower and speed, then in turn rates (that is why the Oscar always rated out poorly, it was slow and had weak firepower, but could turn on a dime, but in the data base, it was a dog for MVR rateings)

plus it depends on your point of view, the GE didn't see turn rate as importent as the allies, did, they thought Roll rate was more importent then turn rates

from my flight sims, you get a guy who knows how to roll, he will eat up a turn plane

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Post #: 14
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 4:05:22 PM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

from my flight sims, you get a guy who knows how to roll, he will eat up a turn plane


Exactly what happened with the FW190A and Spitfire, any version of the Spit could out turn any version of the FW190A, but the FW190A (except for later Sturm versions) had a very high roll rate.

von Shagmeister

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Post #: 15
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 4:12:20 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Hi HS,

The size of these places vary. Some of the places mentioned are similar in size (in real life) to Hastings for example. Where as others are bigger or smaller.

Most of the places we mention (can add in) will have railyards. Almost any small town/large village upwards had rail of some sort. Reading is/was a hugely important commercial hub. That reminds me. When we talk about rail are we judging it's game 'size' on purely it's strategic/military importance or on ACTUAL size and importance to the nation/population as a whole?

Amalgamation - depends on what we do to the map. Reading for example is only 25 miles west of London.

Newhaven is about 10 miles from Brighton, Eastbourne is about 5-10 miles from Beachy Head from memory.

Once more depends on scale you want to go to bud.

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RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 4:21:37 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Roger VS

which along the same lines, that is the idea of the Spit and the wings, the clip winged model was to try and improve it's roll rate

over all the top 3 Rollers, should be the 190, the P-47 and the F4u (hassle with a lot of flight sims, they decide if this plane was known as a turn plane, it must also be a great roller, which is usally not the case)

Steve
not sure, over all, just because it had a RR, does not mean it is a RR target, with in the game, we need to know what the data base sizes mean, if we can make the map changes, I am kewl with the idea, OB should have factory sites and power sites he wants to add, but would say some of that will depend on the programmer ideas of what is needed to match his ecc model



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Post #: 17
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 8:07:15 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		On the subject of Railyards......

my favourite one in BoB is....

Basildon


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Post #: 18
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 8:21:55 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		HS,

sorry, to be clear, the list of towns I started are some of the coastal resorts in Southern England ( main industries Ice Cream, Deck Chairs, Incontinence Pants and coffins ).

I was suggesting the inclusion of them and similar towns in the game for the reasons I gave ( In easy reach of LW, frequently mentioned in relevent books, and potential flak traps for Allied player ).

IF the map AND database were enlarged, we could include many other British towns. There are many more in the Midlands and North that are of far more industrial and strategic value ( Iron, Steel, Coal, Shipbuilding, Chemicals and string vests ).

However, I think if we are heading for a smaller scale upgrade, it would be nice to at least get the South coast and London looking right and target-rich. This being the main battleground.

regards Otisabuser

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Post #: 19
RE: BoB wish list - 11/9/2005 9:24:45 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Roger OB
I understand and agree

we just got to make sure it fits in the Econ model that the programmer is planing on

he would like to revamp the whole Econ model, not sure what all that would take

were you able to update the map during your upgrade ?



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RE: BoB wish list - 11/10/2005 4:16:36 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Did anyone mention retro-fitting the BTR feature of being able to manipulate the tabled data by columns?

I'd also like to see Speedy's house added to the BoB map as a legitimate target.

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Post #: 21
RE: BoB wish list - 11/10/2005 4:26:04 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi Niki
that is on my list of things I want to add

getting the interface closer to BTR would be nice also



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Post #: 22
RE: BoB wish list - 11/10/2005 10:39:06 PM   
palmdogg

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		MULTIPLAYER, MULTIPLAYER, MULTIPLAYER! -- Because there is no prey as sweet as the most dangerous game! :)

Seriously, I thought the original was pretty good as is. Maybe also some night bombing (I doubt for moral reasons that the game could try and accurately simulate the Blitz) or a pilot roster similar to Uncommon Valour, but multiplayer would really be all the Matrix version would need to kick some behind.

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Post #: 23
RE: BoB wish list - 11/10/2005 11:06:38 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		hi palmdogg,

BoB is a quite good PBEM game as long as there are some houserules
Germans are able to make a Blitz ( use the pathfinders (KG100) as leading units and than they are able to fly nightmissions)

Werner

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Post #: 24
RE: BoB wish list - 11/11/2005 1:03:31 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: palmdogg

MULTIPLAYER, MULTIPLAYER, MULTIPLAYER! -- Because there is no prey as sweet as the most dangerous game! :)

Seriously, I thought the original was pretty good as is. Maybe also some night bombing (I doubt for moral reasons that the game could try and accurately simulate the Blitz) or a pilot roster similar to Uncommon Valour..


but it's OK to do Germany 1943-45?

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Post #: 25
RE: BoB wish list - 11/11/2005 2:55:47 AM   
palmdogg

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		Whoops. My apologies. For some reason I was thinking about Rowan's "Battle of Britain".

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Post #: 26
RE: BoB wish list - 11/11/2005 12:35:38 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Hi Niki
that is on my list of things I want to add

getting the interface closer to BTR would be nice also




HS - You mean my flat in Reading is going to be on the map so Nik can bomb it?

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Post #: 27
RE: BoB wish list - 11/11/2005 2:37:42 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		That's OK Palmdog.

So if this game has got Multiplayer and the Blitz features you want, are you interested in trying it ?

regards Otisabuser

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Post #: 28
RE: BoB wish list - 11/11/2005 5:37:12 PM   
palmdogg

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		ooooooooooooooooooooooh yeah!

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Post #: 29
RE: BoB wish list - 11/12/2005 1:41:01 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Oh yes, not my idea but remembered from the Ezboard BTR forums....

18) include Italian Airforce ?

If included, would it be used by the Axis player ?

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Post #: 30
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