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RE: Now I'm drooling...

 
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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 4:37:43 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		and in the pilot detail screen, in BTR you can sort the numbers or items, in BoB you can not

if you notice the name by the arrow, that is me :)






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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 4:38:49 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Woah bud. You have 4 kills. Not an ace I see

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Post #: 62
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 4:45:22 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Man you fast

LOL look at his missions, greesh

I think JC was being smart, he put me into the game and then gave me a dog for a pilot, I think he started out like 52 or 54 Exp, when the full group flew, he wouldn't, it took some losses and some WIA guys to finally get him into the air

but as you may notice, the Mad Pole is doing decent

strange, the 56th has a lot of soild pilots, nobody is going wild, some of the other FGs have 16-15 kills guys

which I am more happy about getting the Mad Pole and others into the game, then getting me into it, Maj Howard and some of my other Poles, plus all the pilots VS was able to list and JC was able to find spots for

and of course, getting the full squadron of 619 into the game was great



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Post #: 63
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 4:51:44 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Of course i'm fast......look at my username

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Post #: 64
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 9:11:49 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Sarge: Thanks very much.
Yes, the disk I have is "12 O'Clock High", no subtitle (on the disk anyway), Copyright 1999 Take 2 Interactive.
"Talonsoft is a brand of Take 2 Interactive Software."

(Aces High is, indeed, another game altogether, sorry - another one I haven't played in a while. TBH I went off Flight Sims a while ago when they got way over complicated.)

OK, I see what you mean, subtle changes but they're there. Still the difference in scale that bothers me, but I do see what you mean.

So, what I want then is BoB brought up to BTR standards, with a few improvements.

Q: Does the Freeze Ray you're talking about happen in BoB, presumably for the Brits? Given the close match of the two games, I'd assume so.

Steve.

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Post #: 65
Freeze ray in BOB ? - 10/13/2005 12:32:28 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		never seen a freeze ray in BOB but since I've never found a copy of BTR to play I probably wouldn't recognise it.

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Post #: 66
RE: Freeze ray in BOB ? - 10/13/2005 12:57:45 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		I never really seen it in BoB

in fact, until it was brought up and I tested for it, I never seen it in BTR, but now that I know what it needs to happen, to happen, I can make it happen

LOL I still a flight simmer, at times it seems the more they put into it, the less it seems like you are flying

yes. that is what I meant with the UI in both games, I hope they are able to get the interface for both game to be the same

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Post #: 67
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/13/2005 8:23:34 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Well that's a very nice explanation HS, there's only one problem with it though. Intercepting directly is a very distinct function of the game, there's nothing wrong with it. I don't think whether you intercepted from the start had that much to do with it (though the angle wasn't in doubt), because, that isn't what I was doing, exactly. About the only time I used intercept 'directly' from the base was on rare occasion when things were just so busy, and there was lots of time to intercept the raid, that I just did it for sake of ease, which, may had been precisely when they were happening, but I know when I sent the save to JC, when I was trying to recreate it, that's not what I did, I just did what you'll see described below (my norm).

In the worst case scenario, where the airfiled must be defended by planes on it, I usually set a patrol to one hex in front of it. Why? To achieve superior altitude. It did seem to that if you plotted intercept that it would achieve the Allied altitude first and then move forward, seemingly taking one more pulse to move forward. That may not be correct, but that's another reason why I didn't intercept directly for the most part. Now it's true I did intercept in general, but only after patroling.

Now you're probably still thinking that's still intercepting, but I just state it upfront the small difference, in case it matters. It does sound, however, that you are talking about either just putting a patrol a hex or two in front of the af, and never intercepting, or moving a hex to the side of that hex in front of the af, which we think they will go through, such to change the angle and then intercept. Only problem with that of course is it increases the chance of not catching them before they get there. I would also think it more likely the raid turns back, or a good deal of the planes anyway, if you intercept the hex in front of the af instead of in the af hex itself. Since they change altitude to bomb, which I don't want them to bomb, they may not get attacked at all, but the payoff MAY be they get slaughtered should they be caught while bombing. I didn't think of going to the side of an af raid simply because there's too many times, be it because I have so many FG's in the air already, where giving that raid the slightest chance to skate by isn't in my best interest. I don't think the FR was an automatic when attacked from the front, but it was pretty high. If the interceptor could pull it off with being under the raid but still from the front, then that may had been a logical alternative, but it just looked like a hopeless situation, and for all I know the altitude don't matter anyway (TaggedYa seemed to that only altitudes equal or higher the raid would FR).

Yes, one of my ideas to combat af attacks was to move AA around to some of them, but given how the game was allowing so little of movement for both air groups and AA, I usually didn't flak up any af's first, but instead flaked up Schweinfurt and some killer armanents factory they go after early on, while starting to clear out fighter groups from both France and very southern Italy. So being such a GE player and all, as you say, does the AI continue to try to bomb af's no matter the flak level? For what limited play I had it seemed as though the AI got smart about where the city flak was, but maybe not about the airfield type.

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Post #: 68
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/13/2005 2:41:54 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		yes, I can agree with what you are saying, intercepting is natural, and normal, but like in Maddon football games, a blitz is normal too, but a blitz with a stunt on the same side of the field works better

the thing with patrols, is you can set up you defence in afvance of the attack being seen, , at times the first sight of a raid you see, you got what 21 minutes of delay to wait till the planes take off, most times, that is going to cut it close (of course, if you set up a patrol, you still got the same delay) if when you knew something was going to be coming, and started your patrols, they would be in place or getting there when the raid was spotted, then you got time to do something (which also, it can get hairy when everything but the sink is coming at you at the same time)

okay, with the OOBs and the editor, one of the changed made was to up the movement allowed on the 2nd day of the campaign to 500, instead of 200, moving is easier

don't really think the AI cares much if you have Flak or not at a target, if it wants to attack, it will

but so saying, 20 light guns at a AF, are going to tear up a large sweep (a small sweep, may get in and out with out much damage, but a 2nd and 3rd group are going to take good damage, more then 3rd units in the same sweep, are going to get pounded)

(JC over the years, really made Sweeps dangerous, mainly to counter me, as I was the main force behind pushing for sweeps, also, the attacking landing planes, was toned way down, I bragged about catching 2 Gruppen landing at the same time, next OOB, you couldn't do it anymore, oh but that was sweet)

{in fact, let me brag, 2 P-39 FGs and a GB P-40 squadron in the south caught 2 full JGs landing at one of the side islands off of Italy, shot down some 60+ planes, then to add insult, they attacked the base and shot up the rest of the Gruppens, it was pretty)

sorry got sidetracked

for the GE player, yea, put light Flak up on the coast, radar and V-sites are going to draw lots of low level planes (whatch, there was a bug about 255 guns on a target, not counting once it reached 255, it started counting over again (I forget if we fixed that one or not)

use the big guns for for key targets, and then for choke points, where you think the AI is going to have to fly (amsterdamn is a good place for one)

you know off the bat, that U-Boats are going to be a key target very soon after the start, so load them up with the Heavies and RR flak, even to the point of stripping other targets

you may want to guard the coast, but really should pull back, let the Allies have the coast, too easy to be trapped there, and most of France can be left on it's own too (I have trouble doing that also, I still try and fight)

do you have the 106x5 patch, 106a OOB ? you will still catch the FR if you play the same why you did before, but they do have other good things in them

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Post #: 69
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/14/2005 8:28:20 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Interesting sidelights. I never wanted to put anything in France or lower Italy, in fact the sooner I could strip them the better, and of course 500 pts. helps.


You mentioned 20 light AA being a terror, but for some reason I never anticipated light AA doing anything to anybody, so I pretty much ignored it. Such as things go when you main strategy is to load up the coastal and main target German cities with heavy AA. Nobody needs to explain the idea of getting target cities loaded with heavies, but coastal cities is another matter. I wanted to subject practially every raid to that 1/3 flak should they pass through such cities. In the long run it's probably better to leave a few choice targets fairly bare such that they have to go through 2-3 flak barrage cities every turn to get there.

Out of ALL the things I would NEVER do, and that is move flak "to" sub pens. I tended to leave what was there, until of course when the other displaced flak was all moved to better places. My idea was to let the Allies have a pretty easy time with things that will fall anyway (southern Italy foremost and then evacuating France), but to give them hell in return when they're attacking Germany proper. Defending those other areas to me is far too piecemeal, though I know that they do have to accomplish something in those areas too. I guess if there were a time I got deep enough in the game, such as with USAAF, I would find a time, probably the prelude to D-Day, where I had more units, and flak, where I would move a certain amount of units back in there, but ever ready to move them back out again when the time was short.

That was the strategy I used for the much more limited amount of movement allowed up to v1.05. I suppose with a higher amount you can afford to play around with moving AA to sub pens. I guess technically the best place for a lot of AA, assuming you have moved everything as you have wanted it early on, would be to concentrate on targets which you know will be hit, but which you are also providing absolutely no interceptors for, like me in france with sub pens. One problem with that though is that loading up coastal cities in Germany would be more effective, for one thing because a lot of the sub pens may barely be targeted that much, such that the flak would be a waste.

Another reason I never got around to piling too much AA into coastal af's was because of their proximity to get them destroyed by strafing. But, then again, the light AA is practically pointless on any of the inland cities. Do you remember, could we put AA into ground units? There seems like that would have been a decent place to put light AA. I know you have to worry about losing that AA if those units get overran, but those units in Italy sure get their heads handed to them early on.

I suppose the best location on the whole map may be many of the targets in Essen, not only because there are quite a few good targets in it, but also because of it's proximity such that a ton of raids over the course of the war will have flown through it.

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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/14/2005 2:34:30 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		yes, you can move AA to Troop units

in fact, as you say in the south, you expect those troops to be over run soon, you can take AA guns from them, and also from any of the targets below Rome also, to build up the pool

you will build up the pool pretty fast though, you will find a time when you can't move enough guns




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Post #: 71
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/14/2005 2:36:05 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		in that shot, I have opened up the 21st Panzer Div on the coast, I could move any of the guns from the pool to it, or pull any of the guns from it, to the pool

hmmm, odd I had moved 10 quad 20mm's to the Div then undid the move, so they must be stuck in transfer, but there are
MGs
20mm
quad 20mm
37mm
88mm
88mm 41
105mm
and the massive
128mm

plus the silly balloons


you may of misread me

I didn't mean the Uboat pens, I meant the UFACs, the factory sites that make Uboats






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< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 10/14/2005 2:42:29 PM >

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Post #: 72
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/14/2005 2:38:35 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		which as you can see, it is not really too weak

yes, your ideas on defence sound right, find choke points or areas the Allies like to fly though or attack, and set traps

the RR units are good for this also

as they can move


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Post #: 73
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/15/2005 8:30:55 AM   
Charles2222


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quote:

you may of misread me

I didn't mean the Uboat pens, I meant the UFACs, the factory sites that make Uboats


Oh, but as long as they're in France they're on their own in my game, unless I decide after the first two weeks or so to move some flak that way.

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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/15/2005 8:34:54 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

which as you can see, it is not really too weak

yes, your ideas on defence sound right, find choke points or areas the Allies like to fly though or attack, and set traps

the RR units are good for this also

as they can move



Seems I used to have a particular strategy for them, but I can't remember what that was. I suppose I always moved them to what I considered the most tempting target, which happened to not be within fighter attack range. Hmm, wonder what would happen if the fighters would get them? I suppose it would be like attacking any kind of flak or maybe like attacking the ground units, if you assume the routine for both isn't the same that is. They may not even be programmed to take those units into consideration.

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Post #: 75
RE: WOW !!!! - 10/27/2005 9:40:51 PM   
mbatch729


Posts: 537
Joined: 5/23/2001
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I must admit, with some chagrin, that I never finished a long campaign as the Allies, or even attempted one as the Germans. All the buzz over this news is making me itchy to give it another try…

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Post #: 76
RE: WOW !!!! - 10/27/2005 10:09:19 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Do it...you know you want to

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RE: WOW !!!! - 11/15/2005 8:42:17 AM   
Ditdat

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Littleton, Colorado
Status: offline 		A new release for BTR - this is excellent!

I have been playing BTR off and on since the original release date, and checking in at JC's ezBoard forum for at least a couple years. Having this gem updated by Matrix is a wish come true, especially since some of our own hard-working crew are on board.

Needless to say, I'll be buying the Matrix version the day it is released.

A huge thank-you to all involved!

Rick "Ditdat" Kaumeier

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Post #: 78
RE: WOW !!!! - 11/15/2005 1:05:22 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi DitDat
welcome bud

well we got most of the crew here and shortly there should be an anoncement about another member of the team joining in :)

so, yea, the Gang's all here

yes, when it is ready, buy it, tell your friends, have your friends tell there friends, and so on and so on :)


the better we do at start, the better can do later on

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