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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> Bidding?

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Bidding? - 11/28/2005 8:08:38 PM

alain30

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/28/2005
Status: offline

Hello all,

We have a group of 7 players and have been playing EIA for a while. Til now we just let everyone play the nation they wanted to play. We do now want to start a new game and let people actualy bid for the country they want to play. I've been reading and searching on the different groups and I found some numbers like 40 for FR and GB or 0 for TU.
Since we're not sure about what numbers to use my question to you is.
What would be an average and a max you would bid for each of the 7 major powers and how much would your bid change according to each of the scenario's in the game?
If I somehow missed a post where this has already been discussed then could you please point me in the right direction.
Thanks,

Alain

Post #: 1

RE: Bidding? - 11/29/2005 1:12:19 AM

Pippin

Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline

The highest i've bid was infinity, and the lowest was 0, though I wish I could have gone negative :P

I can't give you an average bid for anyone, because this will always change depending on the ruleset you're using, and the strength of your opponents.

For example, if I know one player is a French master and only plays the french, I will try to bid higher for it just to take it from him, or force him to play it at a higher penalty. Which is a win-win situation for the rest of us.

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves�

(in reply to alain30)

Post #: 2

RE: Bidding? - 11/29/2005 8:10:08 PM

Grand_Armee

Posts: 809
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

I always hated the bidding...because everybody would just bid the maximum for the country they wanted. My fellow Marines and I decided we'd each write a preference list, and give everyone their preference when there wasn't a conflict...there was always someone who actually wanted to play Spain. Where there were conflicts they were resolved with a roll of the die...which often meant the loser who had Spain or Turkey at the bottom of his list and France/Britain/Russia at the top would get their last choice.

(in reply to Pippin)

Post #: 3

RE: Bidding? - 11/30/2005 2:54:40 AM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

Well, to stop the "infinite" bids, which are just ridiculous, we always put a cap. If the cap was 40, and two people bid 40 well then die rolls figured it out. If you have some kid in the group who is going to ruin the game by bidding "infinite", what the hell is the point of playing? If you are going to allow this, then don't play the game with VP or PP at all, just play it like a combat game.

(in reply to Grand_Armee)

Post #: 4

RE: Bidding? - 11/30/2005 5:54:17 AM

Pippin

Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline

Looks like a lot of people don't get it..

If someone bids infinit for france, then let him. If he doesn't manage to blast everyone out before the due-date, then he loses, simple.

If a guy wants to sign his death sentence before the game even starts.... I have no problem. Bid infinit on Prussia, go ahead!

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves�

(in reply to NeverMan)

Post #: 5

RE: Bidding? - 11/30/2005 11:31:40 AM

leighm

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/6/2004
Status: offline

That's all fine, until once in a blue moon I would like to actually play Britain or France. I don't want to be forced into bidding an amount that clearly can't win just to get the opportunity to play one of these countries just for a different challenge.

Leigh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

Looks like a lot of people don't get it..

If someone bids infinit for france, then let him. If he doesn't manage to blast everyone out before the due-date, then he loses, simple.

If a guy wants to sign his death sentence before the game even starts.... I have no problem. Bid infinit on Prussia, go ahead!

(in reply to Pippin)

Post #: 6

RE: Bidding? - 11/30/2005 3:19:19 PM

rod

Posts: 18
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

1th thing rule 14.2.1 says you cant place a bid of 0 as some here has said they did.

At the moment i'm playing the : Viva la revolution campaign game from the General, whitout economic manipulation. In that game they bids where : GB 20, Fr 16, Ru 23, Au 7, Pr3, Sp 6, Tur 3. as for result it looks like PR is going to declear victory and AU/TUR is coming whit him.

In normal Grand campaign game whit economic manipulation they bids in game I BEEN IN/SEEN has been around this :

GB usely from 40-50 where mid high 40 the norm, but i have seen people bid early 50th and goten away whit it.

FR same as GB they usely go for about the same.

Ru about 25-35 usely high if there was a biddingwar for GB / Fr and they lost. Some people only like to play one of the 3 big ones.

Au 10-18 is the norm here in the games i played, have seen it go for over 20 a few times, but then Au allso right away sold it's soul to the devil " Fr ".

Pr 1-3 onless someone really dosent want to play Sp or Tur then it can go up to 10.

Sp 1-3 samething as Pr can go higher if one of the two players left really dont want to play Turkey.

Tur 1-3 basicly what nummer the player did not place on Pr or Sp.

Ps i would highly recomend playing Viva la Revolution, but whit economic manipulation. It is the most open campaign i know .

(in reply to leighm)

Post #: 7

RE: Bidding? - 12/1/2005 4:56:39 AM

Pippin

Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline

quote:

That's all fine, until once in a blue moon I would like to actually play Britain or France.

Why not play each game for factors? Say, there is a prize pool of 20 factors. Player who finishes in first place gets 10, second place gets 5, third place gets 3 fourth place 2 and fifth place 1 factor.

These factors can not be put in place until the next game starts.

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves�

(in reply to rod)

Post #: 8

RE: Bidding? - 12/1/2005 6:40:56 AM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leighm

That's all fine, until once in a blue moon I would like to actually play Britain or France. I don't want to be forced into bidding an amount that clearly can't win just to get the opportunity to play one of these countries just for a different challenge.

Leigh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

Looks like a lot of people don't get it..

If someone bids infinit for france, then let him. If he doesn't manage to blast everyone out before the due-date, then he loses, simple.

If a guy wants to sign his death sentence before the game even starts.... I have no problem. Bid infinit on Prussia, go ahead!

My point exactly leighm, what's the point of playing with a person who is obviously not trying to win the game? Doesn't that make the game unbalanced from the get go? What is the freaking point!!

ALSO, we never let anyone bid 0, the lowest bid you could have is 1, which usually people put on Spain and sometimes Turkey or Prussia, depending on the player.

(in reply to leighm)

Post #: 9

RE: Bidding? - 12/1/2005 7:59:27 AM

Camile Desmoulins

Posts: 115
Joined: 9/15/2003
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

Be carefull. Some people, sometimes, bid too much to obtain his favorite major power, even if it's not possible to win then. The games are very long, and to the finish nobody remember why you are the french or why you don�t won.

For that reason we use a Home Rule: There are a limit to the bid (20 or 30 VP, a quantity that allow to some player to win), and the people must bid for each Major Power a different quantity (for instance: 20 for France, 19 for Russia, 18 for Great Britain, etc.) and if there are a tie, those that have bid the maximum for the same power make a draw. This avoids the problem

Camille

_____________________________

"Scis vincere, nescis uti victoria" (Maharbal)

(in reply to alain30)

Post #: 10

RE: Bidding? - 12/2/2005 8:34:17 AM

Groosh

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/21/2004
Status: offline

Hey,

When my group joined up with another group because both of our groups had some attrition we found that we had some of the bidding problems that people are mentioning. It wasn't uncommon to see bids of 30-50 after. We came up with a house rule for bidding that works out well and has an interesting element of chance.

1st, your maximum bid can't be more than 3 times the combined total of your two lowest bids.
2nd, once your bids are in a country marker from each country is placed in a hat and drawn out randomly.

This adds a large element of chance and prevents people from bidding 60 for france since it means they will have to bid at least 10 and 11 for prussia and austria and there is an equal chance that prussia or france will be drawn first.

This is just our system. Let us know what you all think.

Cheers

(in reply to Camile Desmoulins)

Post #: 11

RE: Bidding? - 12/2/2005 11:21:32 AM

McGuire

Posts: 63
Joined: 11/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Groosh

1st, your maximum bid can't be more than 3 times the combined total of your two lowest bids.
2nd, once your bids are in a country marker from each country is placed in a hat and drawn out randomly.

Hey, I like that system. I'm going to propose this in the next session!
Until now there was need for bidding because we lways got an agreement between the players.

_____________________________

There are only 10 types of people in the world!
Those who can read binary - and those who don't!

(in reply to Groosh)

Post #: 12

RE: Bidding? - 12/2/2005 7:34:21 PM

1LTRambo

Posts: 313
Joined: 8/31/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Groosh

once your bids are in a country marker from each country is placed in a hat and drawn out randomly.

This adds a large element of chance and prevents people from bidding 60 for france since it means they will have to bid at least 10 and 11 for prussia and austria and there is an equal chance that prussia or france will be drawn first.

So all your group does is randomly sellect the country to be played by drawing the country out of a hat? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of bidding? Why bid high for any country when there is no control over what country you want to play? It seems you would just get penalized for a high bid on a country that is drawn by chance anyway.

(in reply to Groosh)

Post #: 13

RE: Bidding? - 12/2/2005 10:33:54 PM

Roads

Posts: 180
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: massachusetts
Status: offline

No he's saying that they resolve the bids in the order they come out of the hat. So if you've bid 60 for France, you must bid 10 or more for you lowest choices. 2/3 of the time Spain or Turkey will be resolved BEFORE France and you will be playing on of those BECAUSE you bid 60 on France. Seems like a good system to me.

(in reply to 1LTRambo)

Post #: 14

RE: Bidding? - 12/2/2005 11:07:31 PM

ktotwf

Posts: 182
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

The whole bid system seems kind of silly to me.

(in reply to Roads)

Post #: 15

RE: Bidding? - 12/4/2005 3:18:33 AM

Titi

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Montr�al
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rod
At the moment i'm playing the : Viva la revolution campaign game from the General, whitout economic manipulation. In that game they bids where : GB 20, Fr 16, Ru 23, Au 7, Pr3, Sp 6, Tur 3. as for result it looks like PR is going to declear victory and AU/TUR is coming whit him.

In normal Grand campaign game whit economic manipulation they bids in game I BEEN IN/SEEN has been around this :

GB usely from 40-50 where mid high 40 the norm, but i have seen people bid early 50th and goten away whit it.

FR same as GB they usely go for about the same.

Ru about 25-35 usely high if there was a biddingwar for GB / Fr and they lost. Some people only like to play one of the 3 big ones.

Au 10-18 is the norm here in the games i played, have seen it go for over 20 a few times, but then Au allso right away sold it's soul to the devil " Fr ".

Pr 1-3 onless someone really dosent want to play Sp or Tur then it can go up to 10.

Sp 1-3 samething as Pr can go higher if one of the two players left really dont want to play Turkey.

Tur 1-3 basicly what nummer the player did not place on Pr or Sp.

Ps i would highly recomend playing Viva la Revolution, but whit economic manipulation. It is the most open campaign i know .

We just started a "Vive la revolution" yesterday with Economic Manipulation and the Bids are like : GB 12, FR 7, RU 20, Aus 11 and the others around five.

Now that i had earned Russia, i'm already feeling that i bid too much and i have a low chance to win, will be fun anyway.

Bidding 50 for a country other than GB (that win by default) is like declaring i will play for the fun, not victory. Bid higher than 20 is already having a challenge cause the last countries won't have those high handicaps.

The bid can change the way the game will evolve. A bid of 40 for France is one more victory point per month => a lot more of wars to do.

Bid like the other parts of the game need to be learned to be well used.

(in reply to rod)

Post #: 16