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Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 12:39:19 AM   
Sparrow

 

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Command and Control Question

What effects do air and land forces suffer when their assigned command differs from the base command.

Example
Take the 27TH Australian Inf Bde which is assigned to the South East Asian Command. Due to some unfortunate events in Singapore the 27TH makes a tactical advance to the rear and ends up in Batavia which belongs to ABDA.

What problems will the 27TH face while rebuilding in a base outside it's command structure? What will happen when it tries to defend it? ........ or should I try another tactical advance back over the sand dunes and head for Sydney?

I'm aware the 27TH can be changed to ABDA by expending PP's but Who wants to join ABDA, long term employment prospects and job satisfation are zip.

Please advise....

This is Sparrow

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 2:38:31 AM   
SGT Swanson


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Unfortunately the Command and Control or better known as Chain of Command was pretty much axed in this version of the game. I have not seen any real negligible effects in this game concerning this issue. The chain of command was a very real deal in Gary Grisby's version (Pacific War). In that game HQ's had real command radiuses and a hot key to check them with. That is now essenilty gone. In the other game they also had DD flottilas or divisions, now gone. You also had a "Get Transport" button you could use to fast move transports to a particular base so you would not have to go looking for them when you were ready for your next invasion, gone.

Quite a few features that were in the 1st game are not in this one. But, a lot of stuff that was NOT in that game are now in this one. Like being able to attack Russia.

_____________________________

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U.S. Army, Infantry
B Co 4/502d Inf. Berlin BDE (87-90)
A Co 5/502d Inf. Berlin BDE (90-93)
B Co 2/502d Inf. 101st Airborne Div. (93-95)

"Because freedom is NEVER free!!"

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 1:20:13 PM   
MarcA


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In terms of base vs lcu command HQ there are no specific deleterious effects of which I am aware. However, for a unit operating outside it's HQ's command radius there are some negative effects.

In terms of logistics I believe the lcu's HQ's admin skill helps in drawing replacements so I assume there will be some negative effect on logisitics for said lcu, though I have not noticed this to be significant in my games and it is very hard to judge owing to the pelethora of effects related to logistics. As an example, as brought up recently in the forum, the 40th USA Div sits next to its command HQ, which has a huge admin skill, and that draws reinforcements at an almost insiginifcant rate. I assume that this is related to the fact it is a rear area, who can tell.

In combat, the HQ's provide bonuses to it's lcu's which are further increased if the HQ is planning for the base being attacked. The negative effect associated with this are more significant than any logistic effects.

You can overcome these problems by spending the PP's to change the lcu's command to be the local area, in your example you would change the Australian lcu's command to ABDA.

However, saying all this, any unit will be able to draw supplies and fight at any base, though not as efficiently as it would if within it's own HQ's command radius

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 1:34:58 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SGT Swanson

The chain of command was a very real deal in Gary Grisby's version (Pacific War). In that game HQ's had real command radiuses and a hot key to check them with.


I have never heard of that key - do you remember which one? Gotta c RTFM...

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 3:44:19 PM   
Sparrow

 

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G'Day Mantill

If I understand correctly.....
As long as your LCU or air unit is within your command HQ range the base designation has no bearing on combat, supply or Admin......Yes?

This is Sparrow

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 4:35:59 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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My understanding is that you recieve combat benefits of being in radius of any command hq that is prepped for the hex you are fighting in. i.e. SW PAC on Derby 100% prepped for Koepang adds huge combat bonus to attack at Koepang base because it is within radius. This is immaterial of wherther the actual combat unit at koepang is a chinese corps, an indian bde or a USMC Div assigned to North Pac. It doesnt matter.the amount of benefit you get from the command HQ is tied to the land combat rating of the command hq leader so percival not so good slim excellent

Re replacements I think you recieve enhanced replacement's/ recover fatigue/disabled squads/ disruption if you are on same hex as a command hq. i.e. at Calcutta is an Indian Bde at 1/50 with 99 fatigue and disruption it will recover fatigue and disruption and gain strength (both from new squads and recovering disabled squads) faster if a command HQ (SEAC/ 12th Army or even a Chinese Command HQ) is in the same hex. (Command radius doenst count for recovery) the amount of benefit you get from the command HQ is tied to the admin ratings of the command hq leader.

The above is my understanding so if im wrong please correct me
Andy

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 5:24:25 PM   
Gem35


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You can have an infantry marine divison assigned to CenPac that will operate perfectly well in the Java sea killing invading Japs. Said unit will recieve support/supply/replacements from the ABDA HQ. If that same marine division were fighting in Rangoon, it would receive the same help from Southeast Asia HQ. There is NO penalty for fighting outside your command designation. Wherever the marine division is based determines which base HQ will supply replacements and offer combat advantages so long as HQ is in range of marine division, if HQ is not within range then no combat assualt bonus is given and any replacements the division will recieve will show up as a fragment wherever the command HQ is based at, in this case Batavia if marine division were fighting at or near ABDA bases. Still confused? If so, let's all hope Mr. Frag comes back , he explains these questions the best.

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 5:25:41 PM   
MarcA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sparrow

As long as your LCU or air unit is within your command HQ range the base designation has no bearing on combat, supply or Admin......Yes?



As I understand it that is correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

My understanding is that you recieve combat benefits of being in radius of any command hq that is prepped for the hex you are fighting in. i.e. SW PAC on Derby 100% prepped for Koepang adds huge combat bonus to attack at Koepang base because it is within radius. This is immaterial of wherther the actual combat unit at koepang is a chinese corps, an indian bde or a USMC Div assigned to North Pac. It doesnt matter.the amount of benefit you get from the command HQ is tied to the land combat rating of the command hq leader so percival not so good slim excellent



The manual is surprisingly clear about this. I would point you to Section 8.1.1 of the manual. I don't believe the HQ has to be prepped for your hex to specifically provide a combat bonus but rather the combat bonus it provides would be less. While this is suggested in the manual it is not specifically stated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Re replacements I think you recieve enhanced replacement's/ recover fatigue/disabled squads/ disruption if you are on same hex as a command hq. .... (Command radius doenst count for recovery) the amount of benefit you get from the command HQ is tied to the admin ratings of the command hq leader.



Both the lcu leader and the command HQ leader have an affect on recovery of fatigue and disruption, see the stickied leaders thread in the forum. Whether the unit needs to be within the command HQ's command radius is not specifically stated in the manual. I have always assumed that it must, this maybe wrong and you maybe right that it's relative location is unimportant. Howevever, command HQ's do draw supplies to themselves and hence the closer you are to a command HQ the better supplied the surrounding bases are likely to be and hence the better chance of drawing reinforcements.

These are some of the greyest and least explained areas of the rules. It would seem sensible any theatre commander would know the answers to these questions but as far as I know Matrix have never commented on these relationships. Maybe one of the original old hacks or a moderator could wade in with suitable comment about now?

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 7:32:29 PM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mantill

In terms of base vs lcu command HQ there are no specific deleterious effects of which I am aware. However, for a unit operating outside it's HQ's command radius there are some negative effects.

In terms of logistics I believe the lcu's HQ's admin skill helps in drawing replacements so I assume there will be some negative effect on logisitics for said lcu, though I have not noticed this to be significant in my games and it is very hard to judge owing to the pelethora of effects related to logistics. As an example, as brought up recently in the forum, the 40th USA Div sits next to its command HQ, which has a huge admin skill, and that draws reinforcements at an almost insiginifcant rate. I assume that this is related to the fact it is a rear area, who can tell.

In combat, the HQ's provide bonuses to it's lcu's which are further increased if the HQ is planning for the base being attacked. The negative effect associated with this are more significant than any logistic effects.

You can overcome these problems by spending the PP's to change the lcu's command to be the local area, in your example you would change the Australian lcu's command to ABDA.

However, saying all this, any unit will be able to draw supplies and fight at any base, though not as efficiently as it would if within it's own HQ's command radius


My understanding is this: if you have an lcu at a base that is not in its command, the effects could be many, but probably will be subtle. The base will draw supply based on its relationship to its HQ and command. The unit will draw supply from the base according to its leader and the support of its command structure (distance to HQ and the admin score of its HQ leader). The same is true for replacements. The LCU will draw replacements based on its level of HQ support, the leader of the HQ and its own leader. Also, the base must have sufficient supplies, which again goes back to how well supplied and supported the base is.

The short answer to your question is that to optimize an LCU at a base in a different command you should have HQ support from both commands, which means making sure that they are both within range of the base/unit. If not, its hard to say exactly what will happen. Depending on how far apart you are from the ideal situation, the consequences could be mild or severe.




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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 9:29:45 PM   
MarcA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

My understanding is this: if you have an lcu at a base that is not in its command, the effects could be many, but probably will be subtle. The base will draw supply based on its relationship to its HQ and command. The unit will draw supply from the base according to its leader and the support of its command structure (distance to HQ and the admin score of its HQ leader). The same is true for replacements. The LCU will draw replacements based on its level of HQ support, the leader of the HQ and its own leader. Also, the base must have sufficient supplies, which again goes back to how well supplied and supported the base is.

The short answer to your question is that to optimize an LCU at a base in a different command you should have HQ support from both commands, which means making sure that they are both within range of the base/unit. If not, its hard to say exactly what will happen. Depending on how far apart you are from the ideal situation, the consequences could be mild or severe.




Possibly the most important factor when determining reinforcements for an lcu, which has not been mentioned, is the number of bases the lcu can communicate with and the level of supply at those bases. This is because the lcu has a chance of drawing equipment from all the bases it has a positive line of communication with. So a unit on an atoll will draw limited supply next to a unit in say Malaya or even China, assumning of course you are Japanese

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 11/30/2005 9:47:16 PM   
niceguy2005


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Excellent point





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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 12/19/2005 12:40:44 PM   
Curty

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

My understanding is that you recieve combat benefits of being in radius of any command hq that is prepped for the hex you are fighting in. i.e. SW PAC on Derby 100% prepped for Koepang adds huge combat bonus to attack at Koepang base because it is within radius. This is immaterial of wherther the actual combat unit at koepang is a chinese corps, an indian bde or a USMC Div assigned to North Pac. It doesnt matter.the amount of benefit you get from the command HQ is tied to the land combat rating of the command hq leader so percival not so good slim excellent

Re replacements I think you recieve enhanced replacement's/ recover fatigue/disabled squads/ disruption if you are on same hex as a command hq. i.e. at Calcutta is an Indian Bde at 1/50 with 99 fatigue and disruption it will recover fatigue and disruption and gain strength (both from new squads and recovering disabled squads) faster if a command HQ (SEAC/ 12th Army or even a Chinese Command HQ) is in the same hex. (Command radius doenst count for recovery) the amount of benefit you get from the command HQ is tied to the admin ratings of the command hq leader.

The above is my understanding so if im wrong please correct me
Andy



But just what is the command radius size in hexes, do you have to have all your lcu's within 10 hexes, 5....4? in order to get a)Min Support b)Max Support?

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 12/19/2005 1:20:47 PM   
MarcA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curty

But just what is the command radius size in hexes, do you have to have all your lcu's within 10 hexes, 5....4? in order to get a)Min Support b)Max Support?


Curty, the command radius is given next to the name of the unit in the lcu display.

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RE: Command Organization of Bases - 12/19/2005 1:41:09 PM   
Curty

 

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Thanks for that one Mantill...didnt notice that earlier. Will have to study more closely-CURTY

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