Value and Upgrade for LCU components

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Value and Upgrade for LCU components

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Value and Upgrade for LCU components - 11/30/2005 11:49:17 AM

Jean Bart

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Lille / France
Status: offline

Value and Upgrade for LCU components

So, even playing for more than 1 year, I still have to learn about this game.

My new holy quest : how are composed LCUs.

And for this, I am now asking for your assistance, despite my poor English, as I am now quite puzzled about this.

When checking the infantry data page, I noticed that there are several sets of value (vs armor and vs soft) for same type of unit (i.e US Army infantry Squad).
So there are 4 different types of infantry squad for US Army� My belief : there is one per year like US Army Inf squad type 41, .. type 42. .. , etc�. .
Problem they have all same name and how can they be differenced when checking details of a LCU.
- How can I know this LCU is type 41 and this one type 42�?.

But there is then an other big question : if US Army squad type 42 exist, then it means that US Army squad type 41 can upgrade to type 42� Correct ?
Furthermore in 42, in replacement pool appears a new line : US Army Infantry Squad.. But there is a line with same name already existing� So my guess : there s a rate replacement for type 41, and the second line for type 42� a third one being listed in 43 and so on�.
- How can I know the type of squad each line is referring to�.
Believing inf. squad can be upgraded. How does this work ?
-Do we need to have, like air squadron upgrade, a pool full of inf squad of the new type to upgrade the LCU� This meaning that for a full division to upgrade it will require more than 350 squads available in the pool�. ?

Last, but the not the least, question : let s imagine a game started in dec 41 and now in 44, then in the replacement pool, there should be 4 line for US Army Infantry Squad.
- Do we still produce type 41 or type 42 inf. squads at this time�. Even if these squads are now obsolete and could be useless, as all units have been upgraded to last type available.
But then, I can see an issue : each line have same rate replacement � 71 for US infantry Squad if I remember correctly. Problem is then that the more we advance in the war, the more we will need new type of squad to upgrade the LCU, then the less squads would be available for replacement of damaged LCU after fierce battles�..

I have taken example of US Army infantry squads, but there are many other kind of units involve in this, even on Japanese side.

So guys, that s a big question, and I will appreciate your reply or even comments on how you manage this. This will greatly help a sailor lost in the middle of the pacific�

Post #: 1

RE: Value and Upgrade for LCU components - 11/30/2005 5:19:49 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

Wow, you really thought that thru.

Not to disappoint, but from what I've seen, the anti-hard, anti-soft values are pretty much bunk.

Basically 1 squad = 1 assault point.

This is modified by exp, fatigue, disruption, supplies, and whatever else.

But I've done some controlled tests of unit vs. unit, and the anti-hard, anti-soft ratings didn't seem to matter much at all in the odds calculations, or the disablements.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

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RE: Value and Upgrade for LCU components - 11/30/2005 5:34:11 PM

Nikademus

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Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
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A unit's basic assault value is determined by components independant of the specific attack and defense values of the indiv devices. That does not make them bunk. The attack/defense values impact the casualties or lack thereof and indirectly, the modified combat odds which yes, do take into account a myriad of additional factors that represent fighting conditions, terrain and tactics used.

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Post #: 3

RE: Value and Upgrade for LCU components - 11/30/2005 5:44:51 PM

Jean Bart

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Lille / France
Status: offline

Thanks for your update Feinder.
So to your understanding, soft and armor attack values are ineffective.
Too bad the game cannot handle this, but honestly this does not kill the fun of it.

But, and sorry to come back with this, there is still this a question mark about the different units (as they have different value I presume the data editor does not mix them (please refer to the infantry data page)) despite they have same name (i.e US army infantry squad)
Each year, a new line is added to the replacement pool with a rate of 71 :
So in 42 there are 2 lines, 2 times 71 as replacement rate :
Question :
Do allied receive 71 squads type 41 and 71 squads type 42 and if so, do squads type 41 upgrade to type 42 one day�.
Or
Do Allied receive 142 squads and so information on infantry data page are useless and have no connection with reality and combat calculation routine in the game�(thus no upgrade and value of US squad is even from dec 41 to jan 46�.)

A beer goes to the one who can provide THE reply.

(in reply to Jean Bart)

Post #: 4

RE: Value and Upgrade for LCU components - 11/30/2005 5:57:07 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

I guess the polite way to put it (instead of "bunk"), is to say, "It's not worth worrying over" (the anti-hard and anti-soft values).

Effect of those numbers is marginal compared to the fact that your squad is alive or not. Basically, 1 squad = 1 assault point; the anti-hard or anti-soft value may modify it, but litterally, I doubt you would see it. You'll see much more effect on your 10 squads (10 assault points), if they are disrupted or fatigued, than any anjustments that an anti-hard or anti-soft rating may give.

Regarding what upgrades, when, and is it displayed.

Yes, your units will auto upgrade to the next year's unit. You really can't control which ones upgrade tho (as the new squads become available). Except that you COULD set all your LCUs to no replacements (so none will upgrade). Then turn on upgrades for a few units, drown them in supplies, and they would draw the new squads. My brother actually does this with this Base Forecs, to control which ones get radar sets.

But after they've upgraded, if I understand you correctly, you wouldn't actually know that they DID upgrade, because the display name on the LCU is the same (I don't have DB in front of me tho, so I'll take your word for it that that name is the same).

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

(in reply to Jean Bart)

Post #: 5

RE: Value and Upgrade for LCU components - 11/30/2005 6:04:47 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I guess the polite way to put it (instead of "bunk"), is to say, "It's not worth worrying over" (the anti-hard and anti-soft values).

Effect of those numbers is marginal compared to the fact that your squad is alive or not. Basically, 1 squad = 1 assault point; the anti-hard or anti-soft value may modify it, but litterally, I doubt you would see it.

Yes, it will depend on the nature of the battle. Larger the battle, the more toys and the more buried the individual stats will be. Thats the nature of the beast. However baring a forced retreat, the *actual* losses suffered will be impacted by the attack/defense values.

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Post #: 6

RE: Value and Upgrade for LCU components - 11/30/2005 6:26:58 PM

Jean Bart

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Lille / France
Status: offline

Thanks guys so we can agree then that, despite it s not displayed, there are different types of squad depending on the year of their entry (i.e US Army infantry squad).

Not willing to create a polemic between allied and Japanese fan clubs, I can see that this is unbalancing the game in favour of the Japanese side:
Let me explain :
Replacement are fixed for the Allied : still with this example of US Army infantry squad, there is a replacement rate of 71/month for each type (41, 42, etc�)
- What the purpose then to produce type 41 squads late in the game like in 44�.
- Like I previously exposed, in 1944, 71 x type 44 squads added monthly in pool will be available for upgrade of 41, 42 and 43 squad type AND to fulfil damaged type 44 units. (Excluding any reinforcement for damaged 1944 LCUs it will required then 2 months of production in 44 to upgrade 1 month of cumulated production 1942 + 1943, as the production rate remains even during all the war)
But in same time, the Japanese infantry squad production, depending on his manpower, will only concentrate his effort on building last available type of squad � thus not bother anymore in building 1941 squad, when allied production is still in 1944 dedicated at 25% building 1941 squads�.

Am I right ?

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 7

RE: Value and Upgrade for LCU components - 11/30/2005 6:40:00 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

Sounds right.

But squads in the pool, are harmless.

Having 1000x '41 US Army Squads in the pool in 1944 is worthless, because they'll never be drawn.

It's not really problematic that they're "available", because they really aren't. Once an LCU starts drawing the new squads, it'll dump the old squads in the older pool, and always draw new squads. You can't go back. The old squads become a non-entity, because you no longer have access to them.

I do believe I see your point (that having a "reserve" of older squads, could pad the OB of a unit still drawing them). But to be pefectly honest, I don't think I've ever drained the pool of any US squads. The fact you're getting "extra" squads into the pool becomes moot, because you can't drain them fast enough anyway.

But yes, there are better ways that it could have been handled. But I'd say it's fairly harmless.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

(in reply to Jean Bart)

Post #: 8

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Value and Upgrade for LCU components

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