Other games ?

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ladc -> Other games ? (12/15/2005 11:26:25 AM)
I really enjoyed Uncommon Valor and now WitP is just great ! I always believed that the game engine is (almost) perfect, and that you should use it to build other games. You proved me right with you last “War plan Orange” ! If you plan to think about other games based on this wonderfull engine, I suggest that you think about a game dedicated to the Mediterranean War 1940-1943. Just with the historical OOB and Battles, there is a lot to do (invasion of Greece and Creta, air and convoys war for Malta, Sicilia, US landing in North Africa and Tunisian campaign etc…) and the industrial challenge for the Italian should be as interesting as the Japanese one in WitP (you just need to improve the player interface). You could also think about adding the Italian East Africa and the Middle-East theatre of operations… The game should become great if you add “what if” scenarios and campaigns : - what if the French did not surrender in june 1940 and tried to resist in North Africa ? - what if Spain came into the war ? - what if Germany helped the Italian more, and sooner ? - etc I just dream of such game…

Bombur -> RE: Other games ? (12/17/2005 6:49:56 PM)
I second your your request for a UV like Mediterranean game. It should contain, however, significant changes in the land combat. I would also like to see an event editor to simulates out of map and political events, like, for, instance: 1-Spain enters war 2-Germany cancels Barbarossa operations (lots of aditional stuff in the Med) 3-Strategic bombing on Germany (thus decreasing out of map replacements) and so on.... My guess is that even a map editor to increase/decrese the theater operations would be a good ides. Such a game could be eventually able to simulate other theatres, like a Sea Lion operation, and this would be accomplished only by scenario editing, withouth any involvement by Matrix.... And of course, not wanting to be repetitive, separate directories for alternate graphic mods, just like in Civ III, this will end the need for double instalation. Now that Matrix owns TOAW, it would be good to insert something of the TOAW engine in the UV/WiTP engine.

ladc -> RE: Other games ? (12/23/2005 2:18:57 PM)
You are definitively right ! A strategic wargame on the Mediterranean should deal with a few events such as : 1. Spain : Spain can enter war a a full Axis member, or Spain can have limited war goals (Gibraltar, Morocco and Oran ?), or Spain can remain neutral but Hitler may decide to invade it in order to conquer Gibraltar ! 2. German involvment in the Mediterranean theater in 1940 : historicaly, they offered a huge assistance to Italy (planes, tanks, and units ! Mussolini refused...) 3. France : we can have the historical scenario with the "armistice" and a neutral Vichy France, but we can also imagine that France refused defeat and tried to resist in North Africa, or that Hitler did not allow favorable peace conditions, invaded France even the Mediterranean coast and involved Germany in that theater since 1940 (which was what Guderian suggested at those times !) 4. Diplomacy with "minor" countries : events that made Rumania, Greece, Yougoslavia, Trukey remain neutral or enter war on one side or the other... 5. Impacts of oteher theaters : war about a succesfull battle of Britain, what about a Sea Lion, what about Barbarossa (not cancelled but) postponed to 42, what about other war plans in Italian East Africa, what about allied strategic bombing on Germany ? 6. Pre war history : Italy entered war without any preparations (neither at the industrial level nor at the army and navy deployement level - waste of units in East Africa, not a single offensive or motorised unit in Libya...). 7. and so on... In my opinion, the game should allow different scenarios, based on historical events or based on these "what if" events... The game should also add a radom event editor... Do you know if anybody at Matrix is working on that subject ? do you know how to talk with them about this subject ?

KDonovan -> RE: Other games ? (12/23/2005 8:02:27 PM)
i want to see WITP on the world scale......but not sure if you can create a flat map of the world on the screen with proper distances

Bombur -> RE: Other games ? (12/24/2005 1:17:01 AM)
quote: Do you know if anybody at Matrix is working on that subject ? do you know how to talk with them about this subject ? -It seems that a Mediterranean version of UV was cancelled, but who knows what lobbying could accomplish?[:D]

ladc -> RE: Other games ? (1/1/2006 2:47:15 PM)
Why was it cancelled ? when ? does anybody know more about this ?

Captain Cruft -> RE: Other games ? (1/2/2006 4:15:58 AM)
To paraphrase, the reason for not pursuing the Med game was "not enough interest", which I take to mean they didn't think it was commercially viable. Check out the Developer's Journal at 2by3games.com for what they actually said. FWIW a while back I started making a "rest of world" map for WitP. It's very unfinished but if you're interested you can download it at the website in my signature.

SGT Swanson -> RE: Other games ? (1/2/2006 9:42:17 PM)
I think a Med version of the game or a full blown version of the entire European war from 1939 onward could get very interesting.

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Other games ? (1/2/2006 10:53:14 PM)
I cringe at the thought of the land combat model in action in a game such as you guys are talking about.[X(]

Banquet -> RE: Other games ? (1/3/2006 11:12:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker I cringe at the thought of the land combat model in action in a game such as you guys are talking about.[X(] quote: - Agreed, I can just about cope with the land combat model for a Pacific theatre, but the thought of using that for the European theatre makes me shudder.

Captain Cruft -> RE: Other games ? (1/4/2006 3:39:18 AM)
Yes. Mind you I shudder at the land combat model in the Pacific Theatre too. Not to mention the over-large 60 mile hexes ... Those were both minor reasons I gave up on my ill-considered WitP Med/Euro project. The two major ones were a) it's far too much work and b) there are not enough slots for anything. Just a warning to anyone who might be tempted to attempt such a thing :)

Bombur -> RE: Other games ? (1/4/2006 4:03:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft Yes. Mind you I shudder at the land combat model in the Pacific Theatre too. Not to mention the over-large 60 mile hexes ... Those were both minor reasons I gave up on my ill-considered WitP Med/Euro project. The two major ones were a) it's far too much work and b) there are not enough slots for anything. Just a warning to anyone who might be tempted to attempt such a thing :) You´re right, it´s not possible to develop such a game with the current WiTP engine, but this engine could be improved somewhat for a Med game, which could be "opened" (means, few hard coding and an editor event) enough for developers to create new scenarios involving Norway or Sea Lion or Convoys battles in the North Atlantic or any possible fictiional scenario(I don´t think a full European war scenario would be possible, and it wouldn´t be the objective of the game, whose scale would be closer to UV than to WiTP). My guess is that you could be succesfull in your scenario if you had established more limited objectives and if the WiTP editor were more flexible and the engine less hard coded. I still insist that Matrix has an excellent engine in their hands and it should be improved. I will buy any significant development of the WiTP engine (including WPO as soon I pay my debts for January)

ladc -> RE: Other games ? (1/4/2006 9:28:02 AM)
I agree. I never talked about a game for the full european theater, but a game for the Med. theater, with land combat only in Africa (Egypt and Libya but also Morocco, Tunisia, and why not Algeria and Middle-East), and if posible Balkans and Italy : we are not talking about invasion of France in 40 or Barbarossa, with hundreds of land divisions ! I am not sure that the land combat engine should be entirely rebuilt, but you guys know more than I do about this topic... And, definitively, a few points should be adapted (the 60-miles hex...) ! As Bombur said, I believe that Matrix has an excellent engine with UV / WitP and should use this engine with other games, exploring other theaters ; and I think the Med theater could be very interesting...

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