Ship Definition Question (Full Version)

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dereck -> Ship Definition Question (12/31/2005 10:31:06 PM)

In the first scenario I modified I added 4 CVs and, during the course of the game, one never arrived. It got stuck at 444 days and remained that way all throughout the war.

Does anybody who has worked on making scenarios have any tips that would ensure that this doesn't happen again? I'm going to be adding a lot of missing ships and also modifying a lot of arrival dates and don't want to have to worry that everything I've added/changed won't arrive.

Thanks



MarioF -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 12:43:10 AM)

Are you playing Japanese side with production on? You might not have enough Naval shipyard points to build that vessel and therefore the arrival date is not counting down.

Just a thought, because it happened to me once before I figured it out.

Mario



dereck -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 12:50:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarioF

Are you playing Japanese side with production on? You might not have enough Naval shipyard points to build that vessel and therefore the arrival date is not counting down.

Just a thought, because it happened to me once before I figured it out.

Mario


These are American vessels.



dtravel -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 2:40:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarioF

Are you playing Japanese side with production on? You might not have enough Naval shipyard points to build that vessel and therefore the arrival date is not counting down.

Just a thought, because it happened to me once before I figured it out.

Mario


These are American vessels.


*groan* Talk about a straight line. You're killing me here, Dereck. How can you expect me to not point out how overworked the American shipyards were, how difficult it was for them to produce the few pitiful ships they managed, how all those ships scrapped unfinished before the war was even over were all just propaganda, etc. Come on, you didn't really expect the program to allow you to increase Allied naval strength in such an unrealistic way, did you? [:'(]



dereck -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 2:47:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarioF

Are you playing Japanese side with production on? You might not have enough Naval shipyard points to build that vessel and therefore the arrival date is not counting down.

Just a thought, because it happened to me once before I figured it out.

Mario


These are American vessels.


*groan* Talk about a straight line. You're killing me here, Dereck. How can you expect me to not point out how overworked the American shipyards were, how difficult it was for them to produce the few pitiful ships they managed, how all those ships scrapped unfinished before the war was even over were all just propaganda, etc. Come on, you didn't really expect the program to allow you to increase Allied naval strength in such an unrealistic way, did you? [:'(]


ALL the ships I'm adding dtravel were ships that WERE historically built. This game has shorted the Americans alone of at least a hundred vessels of all sorts (but of course nobody complains about that but would raise holy hell if the Japs get shorted even one little AG).



dtravel -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 5:10:25 AM)

*sigh* Forget to recharge your sense of humor overnight, Dereck? Sorry to hit a nerve.



dereck -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 5:21:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

*sigh* Forget to recharge your sense of humor overnight, Dereck? Sorry to hit a nerve.


Outburst above wasn't directed at you - sorry.



michaelm75au -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 5:31:01 AM)

What slot number was the CV in?

Can't think why it would stop counting down.
Basically program works out how may days from start of scenario to when ship is due.
And then subtracts one from it during every end of turn phase.
Once the count hits 0, then the unit shows up.

Michael



dereck -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 5:43:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

What slot number was the CV in?

Can't think why it would stop counting down.
Basically program works out how may days from start of scenario to when ship is due.
And then subtracts one from it during every end of turn phase.
Once the count hits 0, then the unit shows up.

Michael



It is in slot 3007.



michaelm75au -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 5:51:40 AM)

That is the same slot that CV Wasp uses in official scenario.
And I have never seen it not show up.

So can't be related to slot used.

Michael



dtravel -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 11:13:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

*sigh* Forget to recharge your sense of humor overnight, Dereck? Sorry to hit a nerve.


Outburst above wasn't directed at you - sorry.


Its okay. I've lashed out at others out of frustration with this game enough times myself.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 1:13:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarioF

Are you playing Japanese side with production on? You might not have enough Naval shipyard points to build that vessel and therefore the arrival date is not counting down.

Just a thought, because it happened to me once before I figured it out.

Mario


These are American vessels.


*groan* Talk about a straight line. You're killing me here, Dereck. How can you expect me to not point out how overworked the American shipyards were, how difficult it was for them to produce the few pitiful ships they managed, how all those ships scrapped unfinished before the war was even over were all just propaganda, etc. Come on, you didn't really expect the program to allow you to increase Allied naval strength in such an unrealistic way, did you? [:'(]


ALL the ships I'm adding dtravel were ships that WERE historically built. This game has shorted the Americans alone of at least a hundred vessels of all sorts (but of course nobody complains about that but would raise holy hell if the Japs get shorted even one little AG).



Is this primarily because of the darn "respawn" feature so all smaller ships with names originally adorned by ships early in the war? I'm really going to have to get a non-respawn version together.



dereck -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 9:34:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker


quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarioF

Are you playing Japanese side with production on? You might not have enough Naval shipyard points to build that vessel and therefore the arrival date is not counting down.

Just a thought, because it happened to me once before I figured it out.

Mario


These are American vessels.


*groan* Talk about a straight line. You're killing me here, Dereck. How can you expect me to not point out how overworked the American shipyards were, how difficult it was for them to produce the few pitiful ships they managed, how all those ships scrapped unfinished before the war was even over were all just propaganda, etc. Come on, you didn't really expect the program to allow you to increase Allied naval strength in such an unrealistic way, did you? [:'(]


ALL the ships I'm adding dtravel were ships that WERE historically built. This game has shorted the Americans alone of at least a hundred vessels of all sorts (but of course nobody complains about that but would raise holy hell if the Japs get shorted even one little AG).



Is this primarily because of the darn "respawn" feature so all smaller ships with names originally adorned by ships early in the war? I'm really going to have to get a non-respawn version together.



Yes and no. I am adding hulls that were named after sunken ships (though they would have been built anyways with the only real question being WHAT they would have been named) plus there are just some ships that just are missing.

Example:

#1
CA-70 Canberra was commissioned on 14 Oct 1943 in honor of the sunken HMAS Canberra but isn't even included in the game at all for the American navy.

#2
DD-409 Sims (Sims Class DD) was sunk
DE-154 Sims II (Buckley Class DE) converted to APD-50 Sims II

Not sure (yet) how the game handles the situation above with the Sims. I'm still getting my "master document" of destroyer-type ships together to figure out which ships are in the game, were ETO only, are missing, were converted (and to what), etc.

I've also found dates on ships way off. For example there is one AP ship that at the start of the game is in a task force when the documentation I have doesn't have the ship even being COMMISSIONED until late 1942. There isn't any problem with the AP and AK tonnage the Americans had (in fact they should have MORE) but the problem is WHEN the game has them showing up.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/1/2006 9:41:59 PM)

Somewhere on this board I've posted the details for the non respawn version of the CHS. Numerous times actually. I'll see if I can find it. Has everything.



Admiral DadMan -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/2/2006 6:19:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Somewhere on this board I've posted the details for the non respawn version of the CHS. Numerous times actually. I'll see if I can find it. Has everything.

This thread?

What to do now: Bother, Bother

Hey, I even found another thread where you and I agreed! It's a trend![&o][:D]



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/2/2006 8:53:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Somewhere on this board I've posted the details for the non respawn version of the CHS. Numerous times actually. I'll see if I can find it. Has everything.

This thread?

What to do now: Bother, Bother

Hey, I even found another thread where you and I agreed! It's a trend![&o][:D]


Thanks Dadio! [&o]Yep, this was one of them...boy, I guess there were more than a few. Here is a copy of the list...

quote:

Missing US Navy Vessels

**** (denotes vessel needing name)

USN Vessels Omitted/Affected By Spawning Feature/Name Duplication Issue

Essex Class

CV 10 Bon Homme Richard May/43 (historically Yorktown II)
CV 12 Kearsarge Dec/43 (historically Hornet II)
CV 16 Cabot March/43(historically Lexington II)
CV 18 Oriskany Dec/43(historically Wasp II)
CV 31 Reprisal Dec/44(historically Bon Homme Richard) *(Named after cancelled Essex)

Four Essexs in the game arrive early so need to be moved back to original dates.


Independence Class

CVL 28 Chesapeake Aug/43 (historically Cabot)*(Famous Revolutionary War Battle).

Baltimore Class

CA 70 Pittsburg Nov/43 (historically Canberra II)
CA 71 St. Paul Jan/44 (historically Quincy II)
CA 72 Albany Nov/44 (historically Pittsburg)
CA 73 Rochester March/45 (historically St. Paul)

Cleveland Class

CL 64 Flint Feb/44(historically Vincennes II)
CL 81 Vicksburg Jan/44(historically HoustonII)
CL 86 Cheyenne July/44(historically Vicksburg)
CL 90 Wilkes-Barre June/44(historically Astoria II)
CL 103 Buffalo Aug/44(historically Wilkes Barre)
CL104 Tallahassee Jan/45(historically Atlanta II)

Atlanta Class

CL 97 Spokane Oct/44(historically Flint)

These following ships need to be added as they were simply omitted because of name duplication...why DDs and SSs are not respawnable when other classes and MSWs (???) are eludes me. These hull numbers historically were in the Pacific Theatre During WW2 and deserve to be included...who for instance sank Kongo?

Balao Class

SS 313 Nerka Jan/44(historically Perch II)*named after cancelled Balao and sub in "Run Silent, Run Deep".
SS 314 Eel Feb/44(historically Shark II)*named after cancelled Balao
SS 315 Adder March/44(historically Sealion II)*early US sub name

Tench Class

SS 476 Sole Feb/45(historically Runner II)*named after cancelled Balao

Fletcher Class

DD 795 Boon Apr/44(historically Preston II, named after USN DD in C.S. Forrester Short Stories)
DD 796 O'Leary March/44(historically Benham II, named after USN DD in William P Mack novels)
DD 797 McKenna July/44(historically Cushing II, named after "Sand Pebbles" author.
DD 798 Mack Apr/44 (historically Monssen II, named after author W.P. Mack)
DD 799 Caine Aug/44 (historically Jarvis II, named after fictitious Wouk DMS)
DD 800 Percival Aug/44 (historically Porter II, named after cancelled DD )
DD 801 Watson Sep/44 (historically Colhoun II, named after cancelled DD)
DD 802 Oswald A. Powers Sep/44 (historically Gregory II, named after incomplete DE)
DD 803 Groves Nov/44 (historically Little II, named after incomplete DE )

Allen M Sumner Class

DD 722 Keith Sep/44 (historically Barton II, named after main character in 'The Caine Mutiny" and incomplete DE)
DD 723 Alfred Wolf Sep/44 (historically Walke II, named after incomplete DE )
DD 724 Keppler Sep/44 (historically Laffey II, named after cancelled DE)
DD 725 Holman Sep/44 (historically O'Brien II, named after main character in "The Sand Pebbles")
DD 726 Gaynier Sep/44 (historically Meredith II, named after incomplete DE)
DD 727 Curtis W. Howard July/44 (historically DeHaven II, named after incomplete DE)
DD 744 John J. Vanburen July/44 (historically Blue II, named after incomplete DE)
DD 758 Paul G. Baker May/45 (historically Strong II, named after incomplete DE)

Allen M Sumner Minelayer

DM 33 (ex DD 772) Milton Lewis (historically Gwin II, named after incomplete DE)
DM 34 (ex DD 773) George M. Campell (historically Aaron Ward II, named after incomplete DE)

Gearing Class

DD 784 Rogers Blood (historically McKean II, named after cancelled DE)
DD 805 Carpellotti (historically Chevalier II, named after cancelled DE)
DD 877 Francovich (historically Perkins II, named after cancelled DE)

Edsall Class DEs

DE 129 Cramer July/45 (historically named Edsall II, named after incomplete DE)
DE 131 Ely July/45 (historically named Hammann II, named after incomplete DE)
DE 238 Delbert W. Halsey July/45 (historically named Stewart II, named after incomplete DE)

Buckley Class DEs

DE 154 Sheehan Jan/45 (historically named Sims II, named after incomplete DE)



Australian ship affected by respawn...

Tribal Class DD HMAS Kurnai (renamed Bataan)





dereck -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/2/2006 8:41:04 PM)

I'm still way off from being complete. I have the CV, CVE, CA and CLs complete but I'm still working on the others and have just identified ones missing from the database but still need to remove duplicates and determine which ships I have listed twice but only should be once (DD/DE converted to APD, etc). I also need to confirm which ships were ETO only but, for the most part, I already have that done.

I have identified ships in twice. An example is the Schley (DD-103) which was converted to the Schley (APD-14) but is in twice.

CARRIERS
- 01-Ranger class
- 04-Essex Class

ESCORT CARRIERS
- 03-Bogue Class
- 01-Casablanca Class
- 06-Commencement Bay Class

CRUISERS, HEAVY
- 03-Baltimore Class

CRUISERS, LIGHT
- 04-Cleveland Class

DESTROYERS
- 01-Caldwell Class
- 04-Wickes Class
- 03-Benham Class
- 10-Benson Class
- 33-Gleaves Class
- 08-Fletcher Class
- 11-Allen M. Sumner Class
- 40-Gearing Class

DESTROYER ESCORTS
- 02-Evarts Class
- 01-Rudderow Class
- 06-John C. Butler Class
- 41-Buckley Class
- 35-Edsall Class
- 11-Cannon Class

LIGHT MINELAYERS
- 02-Robert H. Smith Class

FAST MINESWEEPERS
- 01-Dorsey Class
- 14-Ellyson Class

FAST TRANSPORTS
- 04-Manley Class
- 04-Charles Lawrence Class

SEAPLANE TENDER (DESTROYER)
- 04-Childs Class

SMALL SEAPLANE TENDERS
- 06-Lapwing Class
- 09-Barnegat Class



dereck -> RE: Ship Definition Question (1/7/2006 6:15:28 AM)

Well, still have a long way to go but I have something like 2,056 ships in a spreadsheet and I'm beginning to get a handle on things.

Can't wait to tackle cargo, transport, tankers and oilers ...



dereck -> American Fleet OOB (1/7/2006 9:03:21 AM)

This is what I have worked up so far for the American fleet. The numbers in parenthesis are the number of ships missing in that class from the game. My Cruiser number may be off by a few since I added a few in the database I'm using and I'm not sure I caught them all. 

AIRCRAFT CARRIERS
	CV 	- 	Fleet Aircraft Carriers
			-	(04)Essex
			-	Hornet
			-	Lexington
			-	(01)Ranger
			-	Ticonderoga
			-	Wasp
			-	Yorktown
	CVL	-	Light Aircraft Carriers
			-	Independence
	CVE	-	Escort Aircraft Carriers
			-	(03)Bogue Class
			-	(02)Casablanca
			-	(06)Commencement Bay
			-	Long Island
			-	Sangamon

BATTLESHIPS
	BB	-	Battleships
			-	Colorado
			-	Iowa
			-	Nevada
			-	New Mexico
			-	New York
			-	North Carolina
			-	Pennsylvania
			-	South Dakota
			-	Tennessee
			-	Wyoming

CRUISERS
	CA	-	Heavy Cruisers
			-	(03)Baltimore
			-	New Orleans
			-	Northampton
			-	Pensacola
			-	Portland
			-	Wichita
	CB	-	Large Cruisers
			-	Alaska
	CL	-	Light Cruisers
			-	Atlanta
			-	Brooklyn
			-	(04)Cleveland
			-	Omaha
			-	St. Louis

DESTROYERS
	DD	-	Destroyers
			-	(01)Allen
			-	(12)Allen M. Sumner
			-	(03)Benham
			-	(10)Benson
			-	(01)Clemson
			-	Fanning
			-	Farragut
			-	(07)Fletcher
			-	(40)Gearing
			-	(11)Gleaves
			-	Gridley
			-	Mahan
			-	Porter
			-	Sims
			-	Somers
			-	Wickes

DESTROYER ESCORTS
	DE	-	Destroyer Escorts
			-	(05)Buckley
			-	(11)Cannon
			-	(37)Edsall
			-	(02)Evarts
			-	(06)John C. Butler
			-	Rudderow

SUBMARINES
	SS	-	Submarines
			-	Argonaut
			-	(03)Balao
			-	Cachalot
			-	Dolphin
			-	(01)Gato
			-	Nautilus
			-	(08)O		[ETO/PTO not determined yet]
			-	Porpoise
			-	(16)R		[ETO/PTO not determined yet]
			-	(01)S-1
			-	S-42
			-	Salmon
			-	Sargo
			-	Tambor
			-	(01)Tench

MINECRAFT
	ACM	-	Auxiliary Minelayers
			-	(08)Chimo
	AM	-	Minesweepers
			-	(45)Admirable
			-	(14)Adroit
			-	(04)Bird
			-	(03)Bullfinch
			-	(33)Raven
	AMc	-	Minesweepers, Coastal
			-	(21)Accentor
			-	(34)Pipit
	CM	-	Minelayers
			-	(02)Aroostook
			-	Terror
	DM	-	Light Minelayers
			-	Gamble
			-	(02)Robert H. Smith
	DMS	-	Fast Minesweepers
			-	(01)Dorsey
			-	(14)Ellyson
	==	not included
	AMc(U)	Underwater Locator Minesweepers
	YMS		Motor Minesweepers

PATROL CRAFT
	PF	-	Frigates
			-	(20)Asheville
	PG	-	Gunboats
			-	(01)Dubuque
			-	(02)Niagara
			-	(02)Temptress
	PR	-	River Gunboats
			-	(04)Wake
	PY	-	Smaller Converted Yachts
			-	(10)Isabell
	PYc	-	Coastal Yachts
			-	(20)Emerald
	==	not included
	PC		Submarine Chasers (Steel Hull)
	PCE		Patrol Craft, Escort
	PCS		Patrol Craft, Sweepers
	PE		Eagle Boats
	PGM		Motor Gunboats
	SC		Submarine Chasers (Wooden Hull)

MOTOR TORPEDO BOATS
	==	not uncluded
	PT		Motor Torpedo Boats
	PTC		Motor Boat Submarine Chasers

AUXILIARIES
	AD	-	Destroyer Tenders
			-	(03)Melville
	AE	-	Ammunition Ships
			-	(08)Pyro
	AGC	-	Amphibious Force Command Ships
			-	(05)Appalachian
	AGP	-	Motor Torpedo Boat Tenders
			-	Niagara
	APD	-	High-Speed Transports
			-	(04)Charles Lawrence
			-	(04)Manley
	AR	-	Repair Ships
			-	(01)Medusa
	ARB	-	Battle-Damage Repair Ships
			-	(12)Aristaeus
	ARG	-	Internal-Combustion-Engine Repair Ship
			-	(14)Oglala
	ARH	-	Heavy-Hull Repair Ship
			-	(01)Jason
	ARL	-	Landing-Craft Repair Ships
			-	(36)Achelous
	ARS	-	Salvage Vessels
			-	(39)Viking
	ARS(T)-	Salvage Craft Tenders
			-	(04)Layson I
	ARV	-	Aircraft Repair Ship
			-	(02)Chourre
	ARV(A)-	Aircraft Repair Ship (Aircraft)
			-	(02)Chourre
	ARV(E)-	Aircraft Repair Ship (Engines)
			-	(02)Chourre
	AS	-	Submarine Tenders
			-	(03)Busnell
	ASR	-	Submarine Rescue Vessels
			-	(12)Widgeon
	AV	-	Seaplane Tenders
			-	Wright
	AVD	-	Seaplane Tenders (Destroyer)
			-	(04)Childs
	AVP	-	Small Seaplane Tenders
			-	(09)Barnegat
			-	(06)Lapwing
	==	not done yet
	AF	-	Store Ships
	AG	-	Miscellaneous Auxiliaries
	AGS	-	Surveying Ships
	AH	-	Hospital Ships
	AK	-	Cargo Ships
	AKA	-	Attack Cargo Ships
	AKN	-	Net Cargo Ships
	AKS	-	General Stores Issue Ships
	AN	-	Net-Laying Ships
	AO	-	Oilers
	AOG	-	Gasolene Tankers
	AP	-	Transports
	APA	-	Attack Transports
	APB	-	Self-Propelled Barracks Ships
	APc	-	Coastal Transports
	APH	-	Evacuation Transports
	APL	-	Barracks Ships
	APM	-	Mechanized Artillery Transport
	APS	-	Transport Submarine
	APV	-	Transports and Aircraft Ferries
	ATA	-	Auxiliary Tugs
	ATF	-	Ocean Tugs, Fleet
	ATO	-	Ocean Tugs, Old
	ATR	-	Rescue Tugs
	AVS	-	Aviation Supply Ships
	AW	-	Distilling Ships
	IX	-	Unclassified Vessels

LANDING SHIPS AND CRAFT	
	==	not done yet
	LC(FF)-	Landing Craft, Flotilla Flagships
	LCI(G)-	Landing Craft, Infantry (Gunboat)
	LCI(L)-	Landing Craft, Infantry (Large)
	LCI(M)-	Landing Craft, Infantry (Mortar)
	LCI(R)-	Landing Craft, Infantry (Rocket)
	LCS(L)-	Landing Craft, Support (Large)
	LCT	-	Landing Craft, Tank
	LSD	-	Landing Ships, Dock
	LSM	-	Landing Ships, Medium
	LSM(R)-	Landing Ships, Medium (Rocket)
	LST	-	Landing Ships, Tank
	LSV	-	Landing Ships, Vehicle



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