Passive AI (Full Version)

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Matto -> Passive AI (1/10/2006 11:08:09 AM)

I have a question to AI. I’m playing scenario 2 like Japs against AI (release version of scenario, game updated to last version). I have just finished six months and never saw enemy BB except BC Australia with some CLs. I attacked PI, Saipan, Guam, Midway, , China, French Indochina, DEI and Malaysia … no respond from enemy heavy fleet. So I checked where all BBs are and found them docking in USA or Karachi. No activity. So I tried creating some BBs TFs but AI next turn disbanded them.
My question is, if is hardcoded some AI activity later in the scenario or AI will stay passive all game (or it was changed in last patch and I must restart the scenario) ?
Thx



Matto -> RE: Passive AI (1/10/2006 11:48:25 AM)

Has anybody similar experience from playing AI ?



Mingus -> RE: Passive AI (1/10/2006 5:05:52 PM)

I am presently playing Scenario 1 with a Japanese AI with the latest patch installed.

After the initial invasion of the PHI and the taking of Wake, the AI now appears to be 'asleep' (or biding its time).

In fact, the AI began removing forces from the PHI when they could have easily overran it. I did have to evacuate Mindano (sorry for the spelling!) though as it was aggressive there, but otherwise the AI is very very cautious, to say the least.

I was even able to regain some ground lost with just the PHI base forces and the few I was able to rescue from Mindano. In fact, the AI has a force of two divisions below Manila that have just sat there, when again, they could have easily taken Manila if it wanted to.

I have shot up numerous convoys of unescorted AP and AK craft with my ragtag collection of Dutch,French, Aussie and Asiatic Fleet forces, nary with a response from the AI. Again they could have easily brought in their big guns and annihated what naval forces I do have in the region at present.

The Dev however is aware of this issue as there was a thread in the support forums and he has apparently found out where the problem is. I am not sure if he will be releasing a minor patch (a couple of files according to the Dev) or will be including it in the next patch.

Now mind you I am only into the third month of a campaign that is to run over 5 years, so it could be the Japanese are waiting for my first moves to attack me outright with a massive response.

Time will tell!

I will say that despite this, I am having a fun time and have lost alot of sleep since I picked up the game. Great Job!



Tankerace -> RE: Passive AI (1/10/2006 6:37:23 PM)

For some reason, in the last patch, the AI went timid, in the sense that it shifts forces around too much. I have however fixed that issue, but am fixing a few other minor things before the next update.

As to the passive AI, the AI's main objective is to secure the PI. It will then, depend upon how badly its forces were beat up, attempt to secure other bases. However, the ball now passes to the Americans, who to win must reclaim the PI. The Japanese do not have enough resources to go on a rampage like in WitP, but in terms of VPs holding Luzon and Mindanao gives them a 401 ratio. Once the Allied player begins to attack bases, even in diversion raids, then the Japanese should come out and fight.

Based on AI tests though we ran in beta, from what I found, I will say this. Around the 8th or 9th month, the Allies would do well to watch Midway and Pearl Harbor [:D] Remember, things are much slower in WPO, and more methodical.



Matto -> RE: Passive AI (1/10/2006 6:52:29 PM)

PI is all in my hands ofcourse ... so OK, I will hope to view some action during 1923 ... now I can prepare for it, I will not attack PH, so I can prepare line of defense and hope that AI will attack me [:'(] Thx for answer ...



Mingus -> RE: Passive AI (1/10/2006 7:42:17 PM)

Thanks for the quick response Tankerace!

Thank you for the info.

I am building up both PH and Midway at the present time and am in the process of building up for my assault on Wake. I have heavily mined both PH and Midway.

I have a blanket of subs surrounding Wake, but no contacts have been made yet (not even supply convoys from Japan).

Oddly enough, they have left Guam alone, again they could have easily taken it if they wanted too, but I would imagine that once I assault Wake, that will change [;)]

Fun!



mashkis -> RE: Passive AI (1/11/2006 10:31:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

For some reason, in the last patch, the AI went timid, in the sense that it shifts forces around too much. I have however fixed that issue, but am fixing a few other minor things before the next update.



Does this apply to both sides? I would like to start a new long game as the Allies. Will the Jap. AI be timid as well or did new patch just affect the Allies side?



Tankerace -> RE: Passive AI (1/11/2006 10:36:37 PM)

It seems to only affect the Japanese AI in scenarios 2 and 6.



themattcurtis -> RE: Passive AI (1/16/2006 3:50:39 PM)

I'm on July 14, and Luzon is still mine, although Japanese troops have taken the southern half of the PI AND landed on the northern beaches. The thing I have noticed is that while the AI is still working like hell to land troops, its convoys are naked in that they don't have any warships protecting them.

There's a roving carrier group that sank one of my french cruisers (Rousseau). The first wave convoys included destroyers, cruisers, etc. And now and then I get ship sightings of task forces including cruisers -- especially off Formosa where subs dispatched from China have managed to sink some freighters (and my Chinese light cruisers have made a pest of themselves).

But now the Japanese seem to be in a rut. They keep trying to ferry units to Appari -- and my obsolete cruiser squadron based in Manila keeps steaming out, bushwhacking them and sinking two or so at a time. We go back, reload, and head out over and over.

Last time, we inflicted 1878 casualties and sent 33 of the 4th division's guns to the bottom.

Along with a few supply ships I caught off Wake, we've sunk 25 Japanese ships -- all of which, except for the Chitose, a destroyer and a minelayer, were noncombatants. I've kept track and 5,000+ Japanese troops have drowned trying to reach the PI. And that first wave is apparently stuck on the beaches. I don't know if they're being held up by lack of resources of what. But I'm new to this game.



Mingus -> RE: Passive AI (1/16/2006 7:57:15 PM)

Further to my earlier email on this subject (again, this is playing Scenario 1):

It is now February of 1923.

I recaptured Wake after some initial issues of my own making (didn't use PPs to assign Wake as a future target, etc..leaving my initial landing force decimated).

The AI could have made my life hell (given their assests they have in Japan), but instead of coming at me with both barrels, they attempted to send wave after wave of reinforcements (APs and AKs) to Wake, without crusiers or dreads and only occasionally one or two destroyers and some PGs!. It was a turkey shoot!

I kept at least two battle fleets blockading Wake at all times (rotating them out of Midway) and a picket of subs to use as my eyes surrounding Wake. I bombarded their forces into submission while waiting for my landing forces to rebuild. All the while killing wave after wave of virtually unescorted reinforcements.

I would like to know what exactly will trigger an 'agressive' response from the AI, but at this stage I just don't know.

Perhaps once I attack Saipan and Tinan? You would have thought the AI would have at least went after Guam while I was attacking Wake (still untouched by the AI and I have never reinforced it!)

Time will tell, but so far the AI is unimpressive to say the least (yeah I know...PBEM...but I was hoping for at least some response from the AI). [>:]

Again, this is as playing Scenario 1.



Tankerace -> RE: Passive AI (1/16/2006 9:13:31 PM)

Well, agin WPO simulates the actual plain vs the AI. Most of your time will be spent clawing your way, back to and then fighting for the PI. And as of about 3 months after it falls, it stacks it with about 200,000 troops. The AI will make a fight for Wake and Midway, but its ain concern is the PI. Unless you manage to occupy Japan, few if anything will offset the VPs it has. And getting enought troops safely to the PI will be a fight in itself.

Tat said, I've made some changes to the AI in all scenarios (hence the long wait), it should help it be more aggressive. But in keeping with the general "spirit" of the real Op Plan, the PI is the main battlefield (i.e. Wake and Midway are there to buy time, whittle down your forces, and keep the "eyes off the prize". And that will be a helluva fight indeed, just getting enough troops there to establish a beachhead, nevermind actually retaking it.



Tankerace -> RE: Passive AI (1/16/2006 9:49:15 PM)

I think I know what happened. I set the AI to not need carrier support, so that it doesn't focus on carriers. BUT, I think it thinks No support at all, so the fleet never sails. I've pretty much (thanks both to player requests and adding in so much) rebuilt the AI objectives from the ground up, so I'll test it for another day or two. I'll see if we can't have the next patch out by next week.



Mingus -> RE: Passive AI (1/16/2006 11:13:11 PM)

Ahhh, that sounds as if you have put your finger on the problem.

I'll abort my current campaign and wait for the patch.

Thanks Tankerace for hunting this down!



mashkis -> RE: Passive AI (1/17/2006 3:46:37 PM)

Tankerace - When do you think the next patch will be out?



Tankerace -> RE: Passive AI (1/19/2006 5:57:02 AM)

Just so you guys know, I have fixed the problem, and the AI is quite interesting now. It is June 12th in the AI vs AI game, the AI has got all of Luzon but Bataan, and Wake Island. Then I noticed two messages I hadn't seen before, at least this early in the game:

For Japan: "Heavy Combat Task Force 89 moving to Wake Island." When I looked on the map after regaining control, I noticed a squadron of BBs being sent to Wake, along with carriers, and 3 Divisions as reinforcements.

When looking on the US side, I noticed "Heavy Combat Task Force 1031 Moving to Pearl Harbor," sure enough, the US Fleet was enroute to Pearl, and this came as a shock: Lady Lex and Sara, along with 4 destroyers had this for orders: "Mission: Surface Combat. Destination: Guam, refuel at Pearl Harbor."

So that is what it was. By setting the AI to no carrier support, the game took it to mean no support whatsoever. Now, when you so much as bombard base (As in Japan at Guam), the AI will detail a squadron to deal with it. I'll try and have the patch out to you guys in a few days.

I do apologize for this. It is completely my fault, I mis interpreted the whole support thing, and didn't set it correctly. But be warned, if you attack the AI, especially its Main bases (Takao, Manila, Wake, Tokyo), the tests I have run (12 days so far, and already both fleets are in heavy action) show it'll send everything it has, based on necessity.



Tankerace -> RE: Passive AI (1/19/2006 8:54:26 AM)

Just finished giving it a good test. The AI is now working better than I had hoped. Apparently that was all that was wrong.

For example, before I fixed it (or I should say redid it, I fixed it from the ground up), after taking Wake, the Japanese would leave to get reinforcements, or to sit in Japan waiting for the enemy. Now they stock it with supplies, fuel, and are turning it into an anchorange. From this screen, on 6/10/22, this is what the Japanese are keeping at Wake (it varies on scenario or any problems). In tests I have been running all night, the AI rotates them out, adds new ones, or details them to bombardment missions (especially if heavies are needed to beseige Bataan). So it is working great. I'm sending the stuff to Erik to make an installer, and I'll see when we can have the patch to you guys.

Below, the list of ships at anchor in Wake (this is not be me. This is the AI. And as a further note, the ALlied AI is sending every BB to Pearl, along with every Cruiser and half the destroyers. The rest of the DDs are being fitted with depth charges).

[image]local://upfiles/8830/9373E18D214E4A15801C9B418207AF1D.jpg[/image]



Mingus -> RE: Passive AI (1/19/2006 6:24:40 PM)

Looking good Tankerace!

I'll keep checking daily for the download.

It would be great to have this for the weekend [;)]



orabera -> RE: Passive AI (2/6/2006 11:32:01 PM)

I've run several tests and the Japanese AI still seems very timied in the 1926 scenarios, but only when played against a human Allied player.

I've started acouple of scanarios, just let them run, my brave Filipino and American soldiers defending Lingayen are starving to death after two years of the Japanese just sitting in Aparri and doing nothing. Wake and Midway have fallen, and the rest of the Philippines, but Luzon has yet to be attacked south of Aparri.

The AI seems fine in computer vs computer and in 1922 Japanese AI vs Allied Human. Ran a 1926 AI vs AI and all seems fine, the Philippines fall and the Japanese captured Midway. Ran a 1922 Japanese AI vs Human, I was able to hold Lingayen for a while, but was eventually driven back to Bataan.

I am using the 1.20 update on two different computers, same results on both.



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