Killing allied transports (Full Version)

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alfrake -> Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 3:06:16 AM)

Can you realistically kill enough allied transports they actually need more, given their build rate? How many and how quickly would have you to kill them to make the allies notice?

Obviously APs are in shorter supply, so those matter more. I'm mainly speaking in terms of transporting supplies and units around the pacific, not so much in terms of invading islands.

My opponent claims he's out of transports. I think he's exaggerating. :)



jolly_pillager -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 3:44:21 AM)

I did not actually say I was "out". I said that I do not have enough to move stuff out of the West Coast faster than it is being made.



bilbow -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 4:00:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: alfrake

Can you realistically kill enough allied transports they actually need more, given their build rate? How many and how quickly would have you to kill them to make the allies notice?

Obviously APs are in shorter supply, so those matter more. I'm mainly speaking in terms of transporting supplies and units around the pacific, not so much in terms of invading islands.

My opponent claims he's out of transports. I think he's exaggerating. :)


Depends on whether you consider it gamey to use AKs to transport troops. I do, and always use APs for that role, invasion or not. It is possible to be very short of Allied APs, especiallly if you've lost a number of them. I don't know where your game is, but more will arrive in 43.



jolly_pillager -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 4:03:58 AM)

I am quite certain that soldiers could, in fact, sit on the deck of a cargo ship as it sailed around, and that their equipment could fit in the hold. Comfortable? No. Doable? Yes.

Therefore I use AK's to move troops if neccessary...keeping in mind my golden rule about moving LCU's.

Never ever EVER move the entire LCU at once in the same convoy. This is just ASKING for them to die.

Also note that moving supplies forward is a main goal of mine for the early war...and that this is seriously comprimised if too many AK's are hauling GI's.



ny59giants -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 5:15:01 AM)

As a rule of thumb for moving LCU's as the Allies, I do the following: all Inf are done by AP's as they cost too much to do so by AK's. Then, I use at least twice the lift needed (about 40k worth of AP's per division). That way if a ship is sunk, I don't loss that much of it. AK's for small load like base units and again, use twice amount needed. You can always use the extra load for supplies...[:D][:D]

One of the best thing you can do from the start of the war is to save the AP's that the Dutch get. Their AK's are nice, but not vital.

The USA gets some AK's as reinforcements soon after the war begins. Then, in mid-42 the Liberty ships (7.2k AK's)start coming in "en masse". Don't forget to convert a sizable amount of them to AR's, AD's, and AS's.

I now have 41 AR's, 18 AD's, & 24 AS's that will start coming out in 6/42 at San Fran. [:D][X(][:D]

P.S. Send the large AP's (4k & 6K) from India down the west edge around Oz to San Fran. Keep the 2k AP's in India. There is already enough sea lift in India.



BLurking -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 5:26:47 AM)

I'd convert AKs to AS ships - but my subs never fire torpedoes anyway, so there's no need to reload [;)]...



ChezDaJez -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 7:14:09 AM)

quote:

Depends on whether you consider it gamey to use AKs to transport troops.


Using them to move troops is not gamey. Using them to invade defended hexes is.

Chez



dtravel -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 7:27:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

Depends on whether you consider it gamey to use AKs to transport troops.


Using them to move troops is not gamey. Using them to invade defended hexes is.

Chez


Sudden thought. Directed at all you experienced Japanese players, would it slow the initial Japanese advance to only use APs for invasions? If so, how much?



ChezDaJez -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 7:41:07 AM)

quote:

Sudden thought. Directed at all you experienced Japanese players, would it slow the initial Japanese advance to only use APs for invasions? If so, how much?


In the stock scenario 15, some Japanese troops are preloaded on AKs IIRC. After their troops have landed, I don't use the AKs for that purpose again.

I play a fairly historical first turn so it wouldn't affect me at all. I may change forces around but generally speaking, my invasion sites are the same, or close to the same, as was invaded historically. I don't believe in sending troops to Noumea, Amboina, or the SRA until I have neutralized the Philippines and Malaya. (Note I said neutralized, not necessarily 100% captured).

But it mainly depends on how creative the Japanese player wants to get. It could slow a player if he was trying to grab Suva, Midway, Tarawa, Guadalcanal, the PI, Malaya and the SRA all at once. Many of the APs start out in places where they need to be repositioned in order to be used. Of course, as an allied player I would love for my opponent to try and take all those places at once. It would give me a much better chance of obtaining local superiority somewhere and put a hurting on them.

If the Japanese player limits his moves to just a few invasion sites, the lack of APs won't be a big problem.

Using AKs between rear bases and for evacuations is fine in my mind. Using them to invade.

Chez



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 9:23:11 AM)

In my AAR Bloody Pacific I have never used more than 10 AK for invasions (precision: to carry troops for invasions) and the limiting factor is not the AP but the available troops. The start was rather historical, with troops carried back to Japan from Pescadores and some landing cancelled.

For me the problem with using AK in invasion is that 500 men will land from an AK as fast as from an AP, so the AK will be empty in one day when the AP will be in 2 or 3. If the unloading rate was also depending of the boat type (troops unloading "1000 capacity points" per turn, so 1000 men for AP and 500(?) for AK) this use won't be gamey any more and more realistic. The lack of boats able to do amphibious operations was a major factor to limit operations in the Pacific (and especially in Burma).



Raverdave -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 1:51:14 PM)

As the allies you never have enough APs.............so you opponent could be correct in what he says.



moses -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 4:50:20 PM)

In my game against John III he played fairly agressivily and I lost a lot of transports trying to ecac supply from the SRA as I fought to the death for each location.

As the game went on he has hit a couple big transport fleets with his carriers which were convoy raiding. He has taken Canton, Suva, and surrounding islands so its a risk sending ships to Austrailia.

So its Dec 42 and I wouldn't say my ops are highly constrained. But I do live with the sence that were I to have another hundred ship convoy ambushed I would be beginning to feel a crimp.

My saving grace is I really have little left to supply. Austraila is full of everything except oil and has enough to last the war I think. Same with Numea, New Zealand and PH. So my only real need for the transports at the moment is to send troops west.



John 3rd -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 6:18:43 PM)

I have two campaigns going as the Japanese right now. My above game with Moses in December 1942 and one with Wolfpack in June 1942. I have NEVER had a shortage of APs and, as my opponents will testify, I am agressive.

It does me good to know that the American do have a finite amount of shipping. I always remember Winston Churchill's quote about the whole war revolving around a ship (and how many were availble) called the LST! IRL--there were NEVER enough assault shipping to go around.

That was reality...this is not!

I think one thing the Japanese player can really do is set out into the shipping lanes and try to destroy convoys. Just as Moses mentioned--it does constrict movement and capacity--if successful enough times. My intention is to do more of that in my Campaign with Wolfpack and see what the results are...



Mike Solli -> RE: Killing allied transports (2/1/2006 6:31:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

Depends on whether you consider it gamey to use AKs to transport troops.


Using them to move troops is not gamey. Using them to invade defended hexes is.

Chez


Sudden thought. Directed at all you experienced Japanese players, would it slow the initial Japanese advance to only use APs for invasions? If so, how much?


I don't think it would slow the advance at all. The only AKs I ever use to invade are those that start the game loaded with troops. I only use APs, and I haven't run short of them either. (I'm in late Mar 42.) Now, I do track my APs closely to make sure they are where I need them for the next invasion. I've basically taken the SRA so my need for APs is diminishing.



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