RE: Start of Game Screen (Full Version)

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c92nichj -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/8/2006 4:59:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: amwild

Steve,

Since I am a relative newbie to WiF, I can't really comment on all these options.

However, a friend asked me the following rules-based question, which I am now passing on as well as I undetstand it:

In cardboard WiF, production is limited to those unit types for which there are counters available in the box and not yet deployed to the map - i.e. only a limited number of any unit type can be produced.

Since a computer does not have any such physical limits on the number of each unit type counter that can be produced, is it possible to set an option so that:

1. The numbers of each unit type that may be produced is limited to those available as counters in cardboard WiF
or
2. Unlimited numbers of each unit type may be produced.

I would expect that there may be named units - such as HQs - that it might not be desirable to produce in numbers in excess of those available in cardboard WiF.

So, will MWiF have limited, unlimited or selectable limits on production of units?


As the forcepool mix is a key design part of WIF I hope that they will not change to much, The wallies should have problems with the axis if USSR becomes conquered, by not having access to the USSR- forcepool (manpower), even in a open ended game.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/8/2006 5:56:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: amwild

Steve,

Since I am a relative newbie to WiF, I can't really comment on all these options.

However, a friend asked me the following rules-based question, which I am now passing on as well as I undetstand it:

In cardboard WiF, production is limited to those unit types for which there are counters available in the box and not yet deployed to the map - i.e. only a limited number of any unit type can be produced.

Since a computer does not have any such physical limits on the number of each unit type counter that can be produced, is it possible to set an option so that:

1. The numbers of each unit type that may be produced is limited to those available as counters in cardboard WiF
or
2. Unlimited numbers of each unit type may be produced.

I would expect that there may be named units - such as HQs - that it might not be desirable to produce in numbers in excess of those available in cardboard WiF.

So, will MWiF have limited, unlimited or selectable limits on production of units?


My judgment is that the limited force pools is one of the most distinguishing characteristics of WIF as a wargame. It is one of the fundamental concepts that the designer(s) built the rest of the game around. Indeed, with all the thousands of changes to the maps, units, and rules over the last 20 years, it has remained a fixed constant. To my mind, changing this element of the design would invalidate calling the game WIF.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/12/2006 12:22:54 PM)

3 people posted suggestsions for the default optional rule sets for Standard Defaults and Advanced Defaults.

I have combined those suggestions and used my own judgment to break ties.

For the Standard Defaults for optional rules, I have tried to make the game easy for new players.

For the Advanced Defaults for optional rules, I have tried to go with the most commonly used options. This gives more preference for older optional rules and leaves most of the newest ones off the list. In particluar, it leaves off Cruisers on Flames and Convoys in Flames.

Here they are, and as they say in poker, "read 'em and weep":

Standard Optional Rules
15. Off-city reinforcement
34. Motorized movement rates
41. Fractional odds
42. Allied combat friction
44. Extended aircraft rebasing
46. Partisans
61. Offensive Chits
68 Siberians

Advanced Optional Rules
2. Divisions
3. Artillery
5. Fortifications
6. Supply units
7. Engineers
8. Flying boats
9. Ships In Flames units
10. Territorials
11. Limited overseas supply
12. Limited supply across straits
13. HQ supply and support
14. Synthetic oil plants
15. Off-city reinforcement
23. V-weapons and Atomic bombs
24. Frogmen
25. SCS transport
26. Amphibious rules
27. Optional CV searching
28. Pilots
30. Factory construction and destruction
31. Saving build points and resources
32. Carpet bombing
33. Tank busters
34. Motorized movement rates
35. Bomber (& no paradrop) ATRs
36. Large ATRs
39. Blitz Bonus
40. Chinese attack weakness
41. Fractional odds
42. Allied combat friction
43. 2D10 Land CRT
44. Extended aircraft rebasing
46. Partisans
47. Isolated reorganization limits
48. Oil
50. USSR-Japan compulsory peace
51. En-route aircraft interception
52. Night missions
53. Twin-engined fighters
54. Fighter-bombers
55. Outclassed fighters
56. Carrier planes
57. Limited aircraft interception
58. Internment
59. Flying bombs
60. Kamikazes
61. Offensive Chits
65. Ski troops
66. The Queens
67. City Based Volunteers
68. Siberians
69. Naval supply units
70. Guards Banner Armies
71. Chinese Warlords
72. Partisan HQs
Scrap units
Facility repair





lomyrin -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/12/2006 7:16:08 PM)

The standard and the advanced default options lists seem to be a good selection of commonly used options.

I particularly agree with the exclusion of Food in Flames and Cruisers and Convoys in Flames from the default option list.

There are a couple of additional options that I personally like to use but that is what the personal selection savings button is for. My own list would also include options 18,19,22,37,38.

Lars



Mziln -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/12/2006 9:01:57 PM)

Option 18: Bottomed Ships
Option 19: In the Presence of the Enemy
Option 22: Bounce Combat
Option 37: Railway Movement Bonus
Option 38: Defensive Shore Bombardment



c92nichj -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/13/2006 2:03:22 PM)

Thanks for the list, it looks very much like the one I suggested with a few exceptions. Let me motivate them, not expecting you to change the list but just for the sake of it.

19. ITPE - I feel this option keeps the naval warfare more fluid.

20 Suprised Zoc's - Especiallly if playing with 1d10 I feel that France is a to tough nut to crack. To keep the historical timeline of vichying 22/6 '40 is very difficult against a component opponent. Suprised ZOC's will enable you to get through the ardennes as was done historically.

Facility repair. Keeping engineers repairing factories and ports is to much of a logistical problem than a strategic issue.

I feel that option 40 would be more forgiving for novice players to make mistakes in China. With the new map it will very easy to make a wrong move that gives the chineese an opportunity to kill off the japaneese army. It is more forgiving for the chineese as well as it discourages any early attacks, which you cannot afford to make.



YohanTM2 -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/13/2006 3:53:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: c92nichj

Thanks for the list, it looks very much like the one I suggested with a few exceptions. Let me motivate them, not expecting you to change the list but just for the sake of it.

19. ITPE - I feel this option keeps the naval warfare more fluid.

20 Suprised Zoc's - Especiallly if playing with 1d10 I feel that France is a to tough nut to crack. To keep the historical timeline of vichying 22/6 '40 is very difficult against a component opponent. Suprised ZOC's will enable you to get through the ardennes as was done historically.

Facility repair. Keeping engineers repairing factories and subs is to much of a logistical problem than a strategic issue.

I feel that option 40 would be more forgiving for novice players to make mistakes in China. With the new map it will very easy to make a wrong move that gives the chineese an opportunity to kill off the japaneese army. It is more forgiving for the chineese as well as it discourages any early attacks, which you cannot afford to make.


I agree with your first 2 points 100%, still mulling the 3rd.



Mziln -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/13/2006 7:28:02 PM)

Option 40: Chinese Attack Weakness



YohanTM2 -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/14/2006 2:24:58 AM)

We started playing Chinese atatck weakness but found it gave the Japanese too much time for other adventures.



Froonp -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/15/2006 5:55:32 PM)

quote:

19. ITPE - I feel this option keeps the naval warfare more fluid.

My own feeling is that Naval Interception does the job that ITPE tries to do, very badly. My intimate feeling is that ITPE is an option for players who do not know how to finely play naval operations.

quote:

20 Suprised Zoc's - Especiallly if playing with 1d10 I feel that France is a to tough nut to crack. To keep the historical timeline of vichying 22/6 '40 is very difficult against a component opponent. Suprised ZOC's will enable you to get through the ardennes as was done historically.

I respecfully disagree here. Surprised ZoC makes for a 1939 Conquest of France too easy, and thus a harsh anti-CW strategy (Fall of Gibraltar in late 40 / early 41) too easy too, and nearly a no-brainer.
I used to play always with this option since it existed, but abandonned it because of that.

Blitzkrieg and Offensive Chits can break the French line quite easily in M/A or M/J 40 (baring very bad luck, but luck is also part of the game), and it is fine that way.

Patrice, in vacations in Martinique [:D]



c92nichj -> RE: Start of Game Screen (2/15/2006 6:34:07 PM)

quote:

respecfully disagree here. Surprised ZoC makes for a 1939 Conquest of France too easy, and thus a harsh anti-CW strategy (Fall of Gibraltar in late 40 / early 41) too easy too, and nearly a no-brainer.
I used to play always with this option since it existed, but abandonned it because of that.

Blitzkrieg and Offensive Chits can break the French line quite easily in M/A or M/J 40 (baring very bad luck, but luck is also part of the game), and it is fine that way.


It's true that a '39 attack on france is to easy with suprised Zoc's and that's why we houseruled it to not apply until J/F '40.

If the CW does not abandon France, I do not see how the french line breaks easily by M/A '40, playing with 1D10 table, even if you play with the 2D10 table it is difficult to break the french line even with an offensive chit or two. Discounting extreme luck or poor wallied play I never seen France be Vichied/conquered by 22/6 '40.

Totally deviating from the subject here but I am curious what your strategy is to achieve this. When do you attack Belgium/Netherlands? When do you use the offensive chit? Do you use both? Does Commonwealth leave the North Sea open for the Kriegsmarine, to enable an assault of Rotterdam prior to the Para arrives?




composer99 -> RE: Start of Game Screen (3/16/2006 6:50:11 PM)

quote:

If the CW does not abandon France, I do not see how the french line breaks easily by M/A '40, playing with 1D10 table, even if you play with the 2D10 table it is difficult to break the french line even with an offensive chit or two. Discounting extreme luck or poor wallied play I never seen France be Vichied/conquered by 22/6 '40.


I have no experience using the 1D10 table, so I could not say how difficult it is to break the French line or not, but I can say that with 2D10 it is quite do-able without using O-Chits. Provided you knock over the Netherlands while the Commonwealth's sea lift is otherwise occupied (say, shipping troops to the Med), you can run over Belgium pretty easy. Whether the Allies advance the one hexrow into Belgium or not, you can just put all your strongest ARM/MECH forces into two hexes by the hex you want to hit, make sure it's all flipped (or at least the corps are all flipped), and as long as the weather is good the blitz mods will take care of the rest. Oh, and roll higher than a 4 or 5.



c92nichj -> RE: Start of Game Screen (3/17/2006 2:40:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

quote:

If the CW does not abandon France, I do not see how the french line breaks easily by M/A '40, playing with 1D10 table, even if you play with the 2D10 table it is difficult to break the french line even with an offensive chit or two. Discounting extreme luck or poor wallied play I never seen France be Vichied/conquered by 22/6 '40.


I have no experience using the 1D10 table, so I could not say how difficult it is to break the French line or not, but I can say that with 2D10 it is quite do-able without using O-Chits. Provided you knock over the Netherlands while the Commonwealth's sea lift is otherwise occupied (say, shipping troops to the Med), you can run over Belgium pretty easy. Whether the Allies advance the one hexrow into Belgium or not, you can just put all your strongest ARM/MECH forces into two hexes by the hex you want to hit, make sure it's all flipped (or at least the corps are all flipped), and as long as the weather is good the blitz mods will take care of the rest. Oh, and roll higher than a 4 or 5.


Having CW's sealift not ready for a defense of the Netherlands would be the same as a CW that leaves france to defend itself.

To take Rotterdam you will need to either :
- Have a PARA
- Invasion from the North sea
- A double move and no CW troops at sea that can rebase back to Rottedam.
- Suprised Zocs.
- Is there another way?

So again how do you break the by M/A if CW does help in the defense.



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