How do I make the best of a bad situation? (Full Version)

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DeepSix -> How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 3:43:39 AM)

In my game vs. the computer AI, I've managed to make a serious blunder and put my cart in front of my horse. On the bright side, I have taken Kwajalein. On the not-so-bright side, Hornet, Enterprise, and Lexington are sunk (along with several cruisers and the New Mexico), Saratoga and Yorktown are laid up in Pearl Harbor (where they will be for quite some time), and Wasp isn't due to arrive for at least another 20 days. This is May, 1942.

Kwaj. is the only island in the group under my control (I know, I know... how stupid was that?) -- the rest of the Marshalls are Japanese. The AI has a carrier group (6 CVs) in the area. By coincidence he was moving his group in at the same time as I was moving mine in and I had not considered that patrol planes from all those other islands would undoubtedly spot me before I could spot him. My CAP was not well-coordinated and -- well things just got ugly. "Like a knife through butter." So now he just circles his carriers around, blowing away everything that comes within range. With no carriers on my side (and even if I had some, they'd only have the Wildcats for protection), it's impossible to send in supply TFs, and Kwaj. is too far away from anywhere else for me to send in aircraft.

I feel like the dog that finally caught the car. ("Well! That wasn't what I thought it'd be like at all!")

Elsewhere, things are not so bad. I have Lunga and Munda, and Port Moresby is not threatened (knock wood), so I can bomb Rabaul with B-17s and generally hold him off in the Solomons. Neither Rangoon nor Manila have fallen and together they're tying up about 150,000 of his troops. I'm actually beginning to make some progress back down towards Singapore.

Any suggestions on what strategic moves might help? I know you can get away with more vs. the computer; I'm just wondering whether I should sit tight at Kwajalein until I get more carriers, or if I should try to chip away at him via places like Tarawa, Eniwetok, etc.



2ndACR -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 4:19:11 AM)

Well, just be glad you are not playing a human.[X(]

Stay there, get land based a/c into the base and just start pounding everything around there. But with KB in the area, it will be hard to do. Very hard.

Basically, those guys are stuck there no matter what for a while. (your troops that is)



DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 5:07:32 AM)

Yeah, no kidding. A real opponent would make me pay even more. As far as the land-based a/c go, I've got a few. Probably too many, actually. Before the enemy crushed my carriers, I managed to run in some transports with 1 group of B-25s, 1 squadron of PBYs, 2 squadrons of Wildcats, and 1 squadron of Marine dive bombers. That was a lot to put there, but (again, this is my masterful "strategery" at work LOL) I was planning to follow up with tons of supply as well as secondary landings at Maloelap and Eniwetok. This didn't happen, so everybody ended up stuck there (as did most of the invasion troops I had earmarked for the outlying islands). On top of that, when I lost the carriers, all those group remnants diverted to Kwajalein, so now there are a lot more planes there (in ones and twos and threes) than I'd planned.

Anyway -- the B-25s don't want to fly. If I set them to "commander discretion" they don't budge. If I choose the target (say, Wotje or Maloelap), they will sortie, but I don't seem to be inflicting much damage, and about half the time the enemy is covering the target area with Zeros flying CAP (like 40 of them). With six enemy carriers, wherever I go, I run into concentrations of Zeros that just take me apart.

It's kind of humorous, in a "one day I'll look back on this and laugh" kind of way.[;)] Thanks for the advice!



tsimmonds -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 5:18:18 AM)

quote:

This is May, 1942.


This is called, overreaching[;)]. Remember it well. In PBEM, you would pay triple.

I made the same mistake the first time I played WitP. This was the SPI boardgame back in 1984. I remember it like it was yesterday.



DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 5:20:50 AM)

LOL yeah. This time around, I thought I'd experiment... you know, "live a little." In the real world, the kitty would pick me off easy.[:D] Cool avatar, btw.



tsimmonds -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 5:24:27 AM)

You might be able to do some baby steps through the Gilberts and leverage your LBA into the lower Marshalls to support your Beachhead. Build up a base, gather all your B17s together, and start hammering.



DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 5:33:07 AM)

That is indeed something I'm thinking of doing. I'm working up an invasion of Tarawa for just that purpose. If I can support Kwajalein, I can begin to bring the a/c I have there to bear. Another thought I had was to ride it out at Kwajalein and, at the same time, pound Rabaul (and maybe Truk, if I can get to it) and that way force him to pull off some of his strength from the Marshalls....

It'll be interesting.



BaitBoy -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 3:11:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepSix

I was planning to follow up with tons of supply . . .


I lost a division at Wake with this kind of thinking. Now I always land AKs with supplies in the first wave.

As for your stregic situation, there isn't much you can do that early in the game with out carriers. I would recomend concentrating your focus on the DEI where you have islands close enough together to use land based fighters to cover your ships.



DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 4:50:42 PM)

Actually, there's enough supply there to keep up the troops. I mis-stated myself in my last post; what I meant was that I was originally planning to run in tons of supplies in addition to what's there, for the sake of keeping up the a/c. The current supply level is about 65,000 -- enough for the troops (and I would have thought for some a/c sorties as well).

Yeah, I'm working on the DEI and the Solomons until I can get more carriers... also working on Tarawa. In other words, I'm doing what I can, where I can. [:)]



medicff -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 5:15:32 PM)

I would sit it out as a thorn in his side while I attacked in a different direction. Enough supply for awhile just keep the wildcats flying and dauntless and B25 on naval for a lucky strike. [:D]



niceguy2005 -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 6:47:31 PM)

Good news is that the AI sucks at counterattack. You haven't said anything about the LCUs or supply levels. If you have the supply and base force to support I would prescribe several fighter groups to control the skies and keep the bombers away. I also would prescribe a follow up invasion of one of the other islands in the area once the KB goes away. It will eventually. In the meatime you have a choice try and fast transport back out or do a guadalcanal, meaning hunker down and wait it out.



DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 8:06:18 PM)

Forgot to mention the LCUs -- there are quite a few. Too many, in a way, because although there's no way he's going to take the island back, there's also nothing else I can do with them. I can't remember off the top of my head which units they are, but generally: 1 infantry division, 1 RCT, 1 CD unit, 5 AA units, and 2 or 3 engineer units (at least 1 base force and an EAB). Also 1 tank battalion. I think that's it; they were all at full strength and supply when they attacked (I took the island in about three rounds, with lots of air and naval support) and current total supply is about 65,000. I've fortified the island to 3. Unless he strips units from elsewhere to bring in massive numbers, I think Kwajalein will stay mine.

Come to think of it.... maybe a screenshot would show this better than I can describe it. If for no other reason than to give everybody something to laugh at [sm=00000117.gif].

The "thorn in the side" idea seems likely to work, but I don't know about flying the Wildcats. I have about 48 of them total; they're holding on (each sqdn has about 30 kills, give or take) but they get shredded by the Zeros. I send 'em up, they engage, they get blasted, I stand 'em down to rebuild, and then we do it again. It's hard to watch 40 Wildcats take on 36 Zeros and see 14 cats shot down in exchange for 2 or 3 Zekes. Besides the losses, the hidden danger in exchanges like that is that I'm doing nothing but building up a cadre of Japanese aces. Don't want to do that![:)]

If I go with the fast transport out, I'll lose more than just the island (which by itself I could deal with) but I'm afraid that the risk would be too much for the ships and planes -- I'd lose some getting the transports in, some more while they're loading, and still more on the way out. By the time I got back to Honolulu I'd have so little left that it doesn't seem worthwhile to try to retreat.

So -- that leaves me with hunkering down. And, yes, at the earliest opportunity, a subsequent invasion. I have a TF (1 Army division) boarding now. I was thinking of sending them to Tarawa and basing my B-17s there. But now I'm second-guessing that; it would be almost as isolated as Kwajalein and isolation is what got me in trouble to start with. What I'm wondering is, would it be better to take Maloelap (very close to Kwaj) instead? Because that way -- theoretically -- the land based a/c already at Kwaj could support the landing, and once it's controlled the two islands could support each other. Widen the bulge, so to speak. Or would that just be throwing more money into the money pit?

A good point about it being like the historic Guadalcanal. It's sort of like a combination of the historic Santa Cruz Islands and the historic Midway. At any rate -- I'm staying on Kwajalein. I'm just trying to figure out how to support my presence there -- either directly, with supply, sorties, and secondary attacks -- or indirectly, with attacks in other areas like Tarawa or Rabaul (Rabaul is out of the question right now, though). Either way, gotta drift along until I get some more flight decks![:)]




DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/9/2006 10:22:18 PM)

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/PocketPlane/OhKwajalein.jpg[/image]

The overall support level is a bit too low (circled).

Air units:
VMF-211 (24 Wildcats; 11 effective)
VMF-221 (24 Wildcats; 16 effective)
VMSB-241 (16 SBDs; 1 effective)
VP-44 (12 PBYs; all effective)
41st BG (63 of 64 B-25s; 63 effective)

Fragments:
VS-2/1 (1)
VB-2/1 (1)
VS-8/1 (2)
VB-8/1 (3)
VB-6/1 (1)
VF-6/2 (1 F4F)

LC units:
101st USN Base Force (100/100)
24th USA ID (76/94)
25th USA ID (86/95)
34th USA ENG (100/100)
64th USA AAA (100/100)
97th USA AAA (100/100)
98th USA AAA (100/100)
216th USA AAA (115/115)
217th USA AAA (113/115)
754th USA Tank Bn (95/96)
144th USA CD (98/98)
3rd USMC CD (105/105)
804th USMC EAB (100/100)

Fragments:
111th USA RCT (0/0) (The result of a previous off-the-cuff landing attempt at Maloelap right after taking Kwajalein)

The air unit fragments -- should I fly them off or leave them alone? Their mother ships are sunk, along with the rest of their squadrons, but I can probably sneak CVE Long Island (now at Johnston Is. and, sadly, the whole of my carrier fleet[:D]) in close enough to fly them off and cart them away to Pearl Harbor. Wouldn't they rebuild quicker there?



Treetop64 -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/10/2006 5:32:26 AM)

Stop spending all your points on airfield and port expansion, and concentrate on fortifications!! You've reached those practical limits, anyway, and it's goig to cost you exponentially more to expand the airfield and port, for little in return.

You're in no position to attack anything, really. Just sit it out for a few months, and consolidate your defenses for now. Seriously.



Tophat1815 -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/10/2006 6:38:44 AM)



curious to see what the AI will actually be able to do.........over reaching can cost you.



bradfordkay -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/10/2006 8:28:24 AM)

Before you look at another invasion anywhere nearby (Tarawa included), you might think about decoying the KB somewhere else. As long as the KB is in the area, any further invasions are endangered. Maybe you should stir up some trouble in the NEI or something.



DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/10/2006 7:09:32 PM)

Ok, in the last couple of turns, the KB stood off and then departed. Actually in two groups, one pretty obviously towards Truk and the other towards Saipan. For the moment, the waters around Kwaj. are mine again. I'm taking the opportunity to shoot in supplies and shuttle out the air group fragments. While the cat is away the mice are going to land at Tarawa.

Yeah, Brad, you're right, but Tarawa is closer to other bases that are already developed and can support it. It's not perfect, of course. DEI is still on my list.

Thanks,
Rob



crsutton -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/11/2006 12:38:57 AM)

Sue for peace and just give them China. Word on the street is that the Reds are going to win there anyway......[8D]



DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/11/2006 12:44:02 AM)

Hehehe, yes, but I'm not giving myself any "do-overs" on this game. I plan to suffer the consequences of my own strategic blunders with dignity.[:'(]



YankeeAirRat -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/11/2006 8:25:00 PM)

Something else you might want to do is collapse all those squadron fragements down to one or two squadrons. All of them seperately are trying to achieve maxium strength and are sucking up supply points to reach that point.



DeepSix -> RE: How do I make the best of a bad situation? (2/12/2006 12:22:25 AM)

Right -- but, unless I'm mistaken, I don't want to compress them into one air unit because they are carrier-based. Seems like I recall reading here a while back that you should leave carrier air units alone. That may just be my imagination -- I was certainly tempted to make one group out of them, let me tell ya. They'd be more useful to me that way now -- it's just that I kept them apart so they'll rebuild as normal sized carrier squadrons for later (when I get carriers back again). Either way, I've solved it for the time being by flying the Dauntless groups off Kwajalein to the Long Island, which will cart them back to Pearl and I'll let 'em rebuild there.

Thanks!
Rob



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