New disappearing unit problem?

New disappearing unit problem? (Full Version)

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niceguy2005 -> New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 7:10:55 PM)
I have transported most of the 102nd USN Base force to a base, about 90%. Problem is the original parent unit has disappeared. When I check the land unit list, only the fragment appears on the list. The problem with this of course is that being a fragment, it will not receive replacements. I have seen where units disappear once they recombine, in particular when the parent is added to a base with the fragment. Has anyone seen this before where the parent disappears, leaving the fragment?

Rob Brennan UK -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 7:14:39 PM)
Talk about wierd timing . this just happened to me in Burma transporting the 17th indian div via air. only had a few disabled squads and 1-2 mortars left to move. next turn its gone but the unit is designated 17th/1 .. hopefully they will convert to the parent soon enough.

Nikademus -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 7:16:16 PM)
transporting units by air should be avoided if possible. Not all the bugs have been stepped on yet.

niceguy2005 -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 7:33:45 PM)
When tranporting by air, i always wait until the fragment switches to become the parent BEFORE completing transport. In my case, i started transporting the unit slowly by air because the base was not secure, but after I got sufficient CAP over the area i switched and finished moving the unit in by sea. I thought I had waited until the fragment switched to become the parent, but I may have messed that one up. Im sure that the problem is that I used air, fast transport and steamer at some point to move the unit.

Rob Brennan UK -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 7:50:05 PM)
Odd . i was aware of that but i've never had a problem using air transport before and it is a bit crucial to allied startegy ( well my strategy) in Burma, so i use it a lot in that theatre and never been bugged before. Also the target being myth i'm unable to sail in the fragment [;)]. I should have waited as you suggest, once bitten twice shy now[:D] It may revert to parent at some point anyway .. fingers crossed.

niceguy2005 -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 7:59:24 PM)
Let's both hope the fragments do become parents at some point, but I fear not. It would help the disappearing unit problem greatly if it didn't take soooo much of the total unit to switch the fragment to the parent. If it would happen once 55% of the unit was transported instead of like 70% to 80%.

Ron Saueracker -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 8:05:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: niceguy2005 When tranporting by air, i always wait until the fragment switches to become the parent BEFORE completing transport. In my case, i started transporting the unit slowly by air because the base was not secure, but after I got sufficient CAP over the area i switched and finished moving the unit in by sea. I thought I had waited until the fragment switched to become the parent, but I may have messed that one up. Im sure that the problem is that I used air, fast transport and steamer at some point to move the unit. Bingo! I have not lost an LCU yet in my 1.795 beta PBEM and have a whack of unit fragments, some units in as many a six different fragments. Frantically searching for a real piece of wood![8D] Just to be safe, if there are only two fragments involved during transit, I move one unit fragment to the nearest base and allow them to merge on the ground.

dtravel -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 9:42:26 PM)
waits for 'El Cid Again' to come in and post that LCUs disappearing is correct and historically accurate

Demosthenes -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/14/2006 10:02:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel waits for 'El Cid Again' to come in and post that LCUs disappearing is correct and historically accurate "But historically - it mostly effected the Allies..."[:D][:D] D

treespider -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/15/2006 2:07:12 PM)
Actually it was the Japanese....hence why we still here reports of lost units appearing from the bushes...[;)] And I have several sources I can quote....but they are all wrong[;)]

Rob Brennan UK -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/15/2006 2:32:59 PM)
Well its been quite a few days of game time and the 17th indian is exibiting some odd behaviour indeed. 1) shows up as 17/1 on base screen etc. 2) when clicked on it shows the breakdown of the base unit instead 3) the hex totals look ok with 1700 troops and various arty not in the base force. 4) im too scared to move it now ! [:D] any clues anyone ? p.s i just moved another unit by air and as recomended im waiting for the fragment to become the main unir before moving the (small) rest of it.

dtravel -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/15/2006 7:32:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: treespider Actually it was the Japanese....hence why we still here reports of lost units appearing from the bushes...[;)] And I have several sources I can quote....but they are all wrong[;)] I thought the last WWII Japanese soldier to come in was in the '70s. Have their been any since then? (I wouldn't expect any more to do so, hard to see them surviving into their eighties under those conditions.)

pauk -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/15/2006 7:59:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Demosthenes quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel waits for 'El Cid Again' to come in and post that LCUs disappearing is correct and historically accurate "But historically - it mostly effected the Allies..."[:D][:D] [>:] Ah, what unjustice! But you are right and you know what? (i'll tell you a secret) - Japanese revisionist paid Gary Grigsby to make this bug - only affecting the Allied side... This forum become sad place.... just to inform you - i've lost several units in my game - and i playing as Japanese only... Interestingly, most of them are lost when they are transported and they becomes fragmented... Of course i'm not claiming that is correct and can offer to all only advice - dont mess with fragments - if you doing that you just calling to be strike with dissapearance bug. I'm very suprised when players evacuating cadres from 30, 40 units (from DEI, PI) and then are suprised when they notice that some of units missing... Remember, this is a WiTP game, not "Air and sub transport simulation game" where whole divisions are transported via air. (BTW, this was happen in real life? I'm not expert in that area, so just wondering myself if Allies really tranports divisions via air?) Once again, i'm aware that not all bugs are fixed .

treespider -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/15/2006 8:36:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel quote: ORIGINAL: treespider Actually it was the Japanese....hence why we still here reports of lost units appearing from the bushes...[;)] And I have several sources I can quote....but they are all wrong[;)] I thought the last WWII Japanese soldier to come in was in the '70s. Have their been any since then? (I wouldn't expect any more to do so, hard to see them surviving into their eighties under those conditions.) IIRC there was a thread here recently that talked about some still living in the Phillipines that had started living with some of the local tribes/villagers.

treespider -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/15/2006 8:42:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pauk quote: ORIGINAL: Demosthenes quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel waits for 'El Cid Again' to come in and post that LCUs disappearing is correct and historically accurate "But historically - it mostly effected the Allies..."[:D][:D] [>:] Ah, what unjustice! But you are right and you know what? (i'll tell you a secret) - Japanese revisionist paid Gary Grigsby to make this bug - only affecting the Allied side... This forum become sad place.... just to inform you - i've lost several units in my game - and i playing as Japanese only... Interestingly, most of them are lost when they are transported and they becomes fragmented... Of course i'm not claiming that is correct and can offer to all only advice - dont mess with fragments - if you doing that you just calling to be strike with dissapearance bug. I'm very suprised when players evacuating cadres from 30, 40 units (from DEI, PI) and then are suprised when they notice that some of units missing... Remember, this is a WiTP game, not "Air and sub transport simulation game" where whole divisions are transported via air. (BTW, this was happen in real life? I'm not expert in that area, so just wondering myself if Allies really tranports divisions via air?) Once again, i'm aware that not all bugs are fixed . This bug defintely affects that Japanese and it is not solely implemented through air transport. It is because of this bug (combined with some others) that I refuse to play again until it is squashed. Why invest as much time as is required by this game to have a unit vanish. In my game with Jim Burns the Japanese 65th Brigade vanished after invading the Phillipines. The unit was landed on several different hexes and evidently decided to go into hiding after losing a battle before the various components could all rejoin. The parent unit retreated then the next day vanished. Then slowly over the course of two-three days the various fragments decided to skip town as well.

niceguy2005 -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/15/2006 9:22:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK Well its been quite a few days of game time and the 17th indian is exibiting some odd behaviour indeed. 1) shows up as 17/1 on base screen etc. 2) when clicked on it shows the breakdown of the base unit instead 3) the hex totals look ok with 1700 troops and various arty not in the base force. 4) im too scared to move it now ! [:D] any clues anyone ? p.s i just moved another unit by air and as recomended im waiting for the fragment to become the main unir before moving the (small) rest of it. I have two units in the same condition. Both were LARGE fragaments that had the parent unit destroyed. You never get control back - at least not that I have found. If you can find a way to order the unit to move, you may have a chance, as when it changes hexes it may reevaluate its status and rewrite its information in the database, or then again, you may lose it. From what I have seen the unit is at the base hex, but there is no way to access it. If attacked they will defend themselves. They also draw supply too.

Reg -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/16/2006 10:46:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pauk Remember, this is a WiTP game, not "Air and sub transport simulation game" where whole divisions are transported via air. (BTW, this was happen in real life? I'm not expert in that area, so just wondering myself if Allies really tranports divisions via air?) General MacArthur proposed to employ the 32nd Division in the recapture the Buna-Gona beachhead until the momentum of the Japanese advance across the Owen Stanleys led him to amend this plan. With the wholesale assistance of Australia's civil airlines and the entire resources of the Air Commander, Lt-Gen Kenny, the 128th regiment and detachments of the 126th were flown from Queensland to Port Moresby by 25th September 1942. The remaining elements of the 126th regiment arrived by sea three days later. Source: Retreat from Kokoda, Raymond Paul, 1958. During the reduction of the Japanese strong holds on the north coast in the latter stages of the same campaign, elements of the same 32nd Division were flown from Port Moresby to small airfields between Wanigela and Buna. Source: as above.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/16/2006 1:09:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: treespider IIRC there was a thread here recently that talked about some still living in the Phillipines that had started living with some of the local tribes/villagers. I have read the same about Japanese soldiers going native in Burma, Laos and Vietnam - some even joined up with KMT units which didn't made it to Taiwan and retreated to bordering countries instead when the Reds took over in China.

Ron Saueracker -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/16/2006 9:26:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pauk quote: ORIGINAL: Demosthenes quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel waits for 'El Cid Again' to come in and post that LCUs disappearing is correct and historically accurate "But historically - it mostly effected the Allies..."[:D][:D] [>:] Ah, what unjustice! But you are right and you know what? (i'll tell you a secret) - Japanese revisionist paid Gary Grigsby to make this bug - only affecting the Allied side... This forum become sad place.... just to inform you - i've lost several units in my game - and i playing as Japanese only... Interestingly, most of them are lost when they are transported and they becomes fragmented... Of course i'm not claiming that is correct and can offer to all only advice - dont mess with fragments - if you doing that you just calling to be strike with dissapearance bug. I'm very suprised when players evacuating cadres from 30, 40 units (from DEI, PI) and then are suprised when they notice that some of units missing... Remember, this is a WiTP game, not "Air and sub transport simulation game" where whole divisions are transported via air. (BTW, this was happen in real life? I'm not expert in that area, so just wondering myself if Allies really tranports divisions via air?) Once again, i'm aware that not all bugs are fixed . Hey Pauk. As I stated above I've just played six months in my PBEM using Beta 1.795 and have not lost a single unit, despite fragmenting the hell out of them. My opponent may have lost two small engineer units but the circumstances were very confusing (contested landing, lots of casualties so maybe these small units were just destroyed) but no problems. I think they may have made progress but I am very careful and make sure each unit has time to redefine the parent element. The only consequence has been a few leader losses, possibly a result of fragmenting.

pauk -> RE: New disappearing unit problem? (2/16/2006 10:20:57 PM)
thanks for info guys... (air transport)... Ron, it's nice to hear about that... Anyway, just want to remind community that we never played game with such complexity and that is best way to aviod bugs to keep one unit in one place. At least thats my intention[:D]

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