How too surrender? (Full Version)

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chris23 -> How too surrender? (2/28/2006 1:49:46 AM)

How does one surrender if af battle is not going well?



FlashfyreSP -> RE: How too surrender? (2/28/2006 1:59:59 AM)

F9 key is for surrendering.



KG Erwin -> RE: How too surrender? (2/28/2006 2:23:24 AM)

You also must raise both hands and say "I geeve up" in a bad French accent. (Sorry --bad joke. Can't help it sometimes.) [:'(]



chris23 -> RE: How too surrender? (2/28/2006 4:23:18 AM)

Yep. thanx



azraelck -> RE: How too surrender? (2/28/2006 5:32:27 AM)

The French automatically surrender before battle actually starts (in the same 'turn' that pre-plotted arty falls).



Puukkoo -> RE: How too surrender? (2/28/2006 12:18:44 PM)

You guys are begging troubles.



chris23 -> RE: How too surrender? (2/28/2006 11:46:35 PM)

Ha ha that always happens when I play as them, that just shows how realistic this game is:)



Puukkoo -> RE: How too surrender? (3/1/2006 11:37:15 AM)

I have not played French for a long time, but I will definitely not surrender! Perhaps I should continue my Dien Bien Phu campaign.



chris23 -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 1:32:34 AM)

Just a joke[:)]



KG Erwin -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 2:22:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puukkoo

I have not played French for a long time, but I will definitely not surrender! Perhaps I should continue my Dien Bien Phu campaign.


C'mon, Puukkoo, the kind of humor you encounter at wargaming forums isn't politically correct, but it isn't mean-spirited either.

I have a lot of respect for the French military tradition, which inspired some great leadership and several valuable works of military science. Some of these works became required reading at West Point.

(Personal note: this is why forum posting is such a tricky thing. The lack of tone of voice and facial expressions make it a poor substitute for person-to-person conversation, and that's why so many written thoughts get taken the wrong way. That's especially true of a person like me, who relies heavily on body language and tone to get my points across. In the written form, the true intent is often lost.)



Alby -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 2:34:39 AM)

YOu guys are gonna like the New French OOB that is coming out in the SPWAW Mod.
Well, if you ever use the french that is...[;)]
Flashfyre has busted his butt on this baby!
I hope they dont surrender!
[:D]



azraelck -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 5:30:27 AM)

In all seriousness, I was watching the Military channel; and In 1939 the French Army often retreated without ever seeing an enemy or firing a shot. They were beaten before they even fought a battle. I think that's the reason why the French have such a sterling reputation on the field amongst the general population.

Of course, they were beat before the Germans even made their intentions known of invading France. Neither France nor Britain wanted a second World War, and when it came; not only the French Army but the entire nation collapsed. It was also mentioned that they had a "1918 army" compared to the modern German one.



junk2drive -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 5:38:24 AM)

azraelck, You need to go to the axishistory.com forums and read David Leamann's posts on the French and their battles.
There were no real battles in 1939 in France. In May June 1940 the French with the British were defeated by surprise and poor leadership, not the ability or courage of the soldiers.



Korpraali V -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 5:59:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

azraelck, You need to go to the axishistory.com forums and read David Leamann's posts on the French and their battles.
There were no real battles in 1939 in France. In May June 1940 the French with the British were defeated by surprise and poor leadership, not the ability or courage of the soldiers.


To see that it is good to read what happened in France after the Dunkerque and before France surrendered. Germans had real troubles to continue their advance because French defenders were more motivated then.

And some years later around the Monte Cassino...



azraelck -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 6:48:13 AM)

What I was referring to was prior to Dunkirk. And I'm more likely to believe the Military Channel than some forums poster. You were right that there was no real battles. The French broke before even hearing the German Panzers approach. The battles that were fought showed no lack of courage, but a decided lack of communications and cohesiveness. Add in a spread out force and they were simply overwhelmed by the more concentrated and better coordinated Germans. It wasn't even an issue of force size, and even the strength of their tanks, as the French had a larger force, and their tanks were superior. It also really wasn't an issue of courage, but morale. They did not want another war, and were not mentally prepared for a dedicated assault. Finally, they were taken by suprise by the Germans going through the Ardennes, rather than the routes that would be more favorable to a mechanized army.



jaffa -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 8:35:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: azraelck

Finally, they were taken by suprise by the Germans going through the Ardennes, rather than the routes that would be more favorable to a mechanized army.


I donīt believe that French Forces were too surprised, as Germany tried this way to Paris in WWI, althogh the "mechanical" argument mentioned is surely a point. But anyway, even that should have been part of French strrategic thoughts if their Leadingstaff wasnīt too out-of-this-world.



Puukkoo -> RE: How too surrender? (3/2/2006 10:20:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

C'mon, Puukkoo, the kind of humor you encounter at wargaming forums isn't politically correct, but it isn't mean-spirited either.

I have a lot of respect for the French military tradition, which inspired some great leadership and several valuable works of military science. Some of these works became required reading at West Point.


Nah, I was actually only interested in 'how to buy Westland Lysander from French OOB?'.

quote:

(Personal note: this is why forum posting is such a tricky thing. The lack of tone of voice and facial expressions make it a poor substitute for person-to-person conversation, and that's why so many written thoughts get taken the wrong way. That's especially true of a person like me, who relies heavily on body language and tone to get my points across. In the written form, the true intent is often lost.)


We do have the facial expression symbols here, they are called 'smileys' and they look exactly like Alby.



264rifle -> RE: How too surrender? (3/3/2006 10:32:18 PM)

Azraelck. May I suggest that you read some of David Leamann's posts. and then decide. He has posted some great stuff on the depot.

In a book called "Dirty Little Secrets of World War II" by James Dunnigan and Albert Nofi which is full of various factoids about WWII. There is a comparison of the the 1940 campaign and the first six weeks ot the Russian campaign in 1941.

In France the Germans had 122 divisions and suffered 155,000 combat losses (dead, prisioners and missing) The allies had 140 divisions and suffered over 1/2 million combat losses. In Russia the Germans had 134 divisions and suffered 213,000 combat losses but inflicted almost 1 million losses on the Russians. By the end of the year the Russians had lost over 4million men. Russia had four times the population of France and was lot bigger with more room to retreat to.

Did the the Germans win in France? of course, but not because the French troops all ran away. You don't loose 155,000 men chasing a panicked, retreating enemy unless your men are incredible clumsy and your tanks and trucks run over your own men.

The French were totally out maneuvered due to WWI communications and a lack of air reconnaisance. The time to find the enemy tank division IS NOT when it has driven over your supply dump and and blocked the bridge over the river 15 km behind you.



Alby -> RE: How too surrender? (3/3/2006 11:01:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puukkoo


We do have the facial expression symbols here, they are called 'smileys' and they look exactly like Alby.


[:-]



PimpYourAFV -> RE: How too surrender? (3/4/2006 2:13:16 AM)


I am playing the regular WW2 campaign as the french and they are doing quite well despite a 7:1 advantage in numbers for the germans.



KG Erwin -> RE: How too surrender? (3/4/2006 2:34:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puukkoo


We do have the facial expression symbols here, they are called 'smileys' and they look exactly like Alby.


[:-]


No, Alby is a rock god. Check it out:



[image]local://upfiles/813/161071CC6ECB42F4B9BFF22EA69688A7.jpg[/image]



Goblin -> RE: How too surrender? (3/4/2006 4:34:22 AM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: Puukkoo


We do have the facial expression symbols here, they are called 'smileys' and they look exactly like Alby.


LMAO!!!!

[:'(]



Alby -> RE: How too surrender? (3/4/2006 8:40:00 AM)

oh good god!!
not the shirt!!!!!!!!!



m10bob -> RE: How too surrender? (3/5/2006 11:22:38 PM)

Looks like an early Clapton, but playing a bass?..Is that the club across from the courthouse?



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