RE: March Update (Full Version)

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Ursa MAior -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 9:22:00 AM)

StCyr

Why dont you bring your frustration somewhere else? We probably understand your feelings but it is no excuse to be soooooo unpolite.



pzgndr -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 3:56:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: StCry

Do you really think sombody needs to be programmer before he is allowed to criticize Marshall and this "go on with your good job" bla bla ?


Yes. YOU try developing something and let us know how it goes. FWIW, there is zero harm to anybody associated with a game's delayed release, for whatever reason(s). Have you payed for something?? Has a contract clause been violated?? Have YOU been harmed in any way? No, no, and no. You are just a crybaby wanting something and you're not getting it. Well too bad for you. Each and every month you post a stupid update thread to highlight your personal misery, as if anybody gives a damn. Get a life! The game will be released when it gets released.

I'm calling a spade a spade. You are a troll, StCryBaby. Go away already.



Ivan58 -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 4:18:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: donkuchi

You also need to remember that Matrix is the publisher not the developer. They may have some input but they are really just making it available for purchase. If you notice, all of their games are 'published' by Matrix but have different developers such as 2 by 3, David Winters, Marshall Ellis, Shaun Sullivan, and so forth. Guys this isn't Microsoft. If it was, we wouldn't be buying their games. I support Matrix for giving the individual developer the support they need to bring their games to market. I have already purchased 8 of the games published by matrix and only two are by the same developer. It may take a little longer but the results are usually worth it.



Thanks for the clarification, Don.

Still I often read that the individual programmers are working on various projects at the same time. Actually it boils to this: is it business or is it art? For you cannot force an artist to work on schedule. I sometimes think that our (company) programmers are artists too, or at least they act like that. And for some of these game developers it appears the same.

But guys, let's not this discussion grow sour, it'll make the waiting even longer.



StCyr -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 6:05:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
Have YOU been harmed in any way? No, no, and no. You are just a crybaby wanting something and you're not getting it. Well too bad for you. Each and every month you post a stupid update thread to highlight your personal misery, as if anybody gives a damn. Get a life! ... You are a troll, StCryBaby. Go away already.

You just offend me, don`t you ? Did I offend you ? And you call me a troll ?
If you call your posting "not to give a damn" I am just glad your that relaxed.
And if my demand for an update every month is just "to highlight my personal misery", you should better not react to it. But it seems too hard to resist, sorry for you.



pzgndr -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 6:25:38 PM)

I will react any way I want to react to your stupid incessant whining. You want to be a big crybaby but don't like it when somebody asks you to please stop? That is your right. [8|]

Hey, would you like me to provide you weekly or daily updates to let you know EIA is not finished yet? Maybe that would help. [:'(]







StCyr -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 7:19:04 PM)

It leeds nowhere if you just go on to offend me. If you just say I am not allowed to criticize cause I donīt develop a gamy myself and thats it, there is also no hope for an exchange of arguments. Otherwise you are welcome to tell me where I am wrong and I will try to answer.



pzgndr -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 7:44:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: StCry

With all respect, but I canīt share ur sense of reality.


That's the point. You cannot share in any sense of reality. You cannot accept reality. The reality is that EIA is not finished yet. It will be finished when it gets finished. Period. You whining and crying about it will not change reality.

And why are trying to play an offended victim here? You should go on Oprah or something. Throw a temper tantrum like Tom Cruise and jump up and down on the sofa. I WANT MY GAME!! MARSHALL LIED TO ME!! WHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

You're pathetic. And it is spelled "you're" - not "ur." What's up with that?

Had enough? We might as well make this entertaining, since there's no game yet. [:'(]

P.S. MARCH 10 UPDATE -- EIA IS NOT RELEASED YET!! MORE NEWS ON MARCH 11. [:D]



StCyr -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 7:49:31 PM)

ok, I am a troll. I am pathetic.



pzgndr -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 8:11:44 PM)

OK, and how about we both knock off all the nonsense? Let's show some respect and patience for Marshall and just let him and his playtesters finish the game as soon as they can - whenever that may be. No more updates unless they are from Marshall himself. [:)]



Soft Heap -> RE: March Update (3/10/2006 8:14:20 PM)

So, any news about the game? I've been told that release is imminent, is this true? If so I hope it will be before Eastern because I took some extra hollidays!



YohanTM2 -> RE: March Update (3/11/2006 5:36:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soft Heap

So, any news about the game? I've been told that release is imminent, is this true? If so I hope it will be before Eastern because I took some extra hollidays!


You must be kidding right? I would go back to work :)



McGuire -> RE: March Update (3/13/2006 5:54:17 PM)

@pzgndr & StCyr

Well, I don't want to offend anyone - but the tone's been a little rough between you two! Or am I mistaken!

@ StCyr
I guess, your way of criticims wasn't quite apropriate. That far I agree with pzgndr or Ursa. I do share your disappointment but notes like the ones you did won't speed it up a bit!
So folks, let's try to stick to constructive criticism!

@pzgndr
Well, what to say? Although I think I can fortell your reaction, this is for you:
I think it's most inapropreate to behave the way you did! Insulting people isn't what I was taught as good behaviour. Maybe you were upset about something - I can't tell. But this is no excuse for offending someone!
I think an apology is to be made here!

Just my point of view!



pzgndr -> RE: March Update (3/13/2006 6:16:17 PM)

quote:

I think it's most inapropreate to behave the way you did!


Reread my last post please. I was using some rhetoric to make a point. I believe I did, and then backed off. End of story.

quote:

Insulting people isn't what I was taught as good behaviour.


Very true. Insulting Marshall Ellis and his playtesters and Matrix Games month after month just because a game isn't released yet is not good behaviour either. And StCyr's only apparent reason for posting on the forum (37 posts!) is to whine and complain from his protected anonymity. That's trolling, by definition. Well sorry, I'm a little tired of it and decided to say something. Maybe things will improve and I won't have to say anything more? Or, maybe not. We'll see when April rolls around.



gazfun -> RE: March Update (3/14/2006 12:58:17 AM)

wow this has turned into a fully grown man piXXing competition, its hard to believe over a game, wow![:D]



StCyr -> RE: March Update (3/14/2006 2:41:46 AM)

Dear Mcguire,
you ask to stick to constructive criticism. Of course you are right with this, its always better to be constructive if there is a chance.
I am frustrated, cause I follow this forum for years now (old postings for several years are lost as you might know). There used to be an update every month, and in my point of view there still should be one. Perhapse I should add an "?" to "April update". And of cause I will again hope that a playtester might add some info like Pippin did in December (thanks for it again) or even Marshal (like this month, perhapse with some more details). I was not polite this month to write about "good work bla bla". But this comment was about the optimistc point of view of some other forum users, it was not towards Marshall or any playtester.
I would really like to use this forum for a constructive diskussion about this game.
But just as Marshal wrote to me in November:
"StCyr:

No new news. Same old - Same old - blah - blah. That better?
Like I said previously, when something measurable happens, I'll let you guys know! "

Of course it is obvious that I am not satisfied cause no update by Marshall for 6 month means according to Marshall that nothing measurable happend (yes, I do hope that something measurable happend...).
But what is a forum about ? If I think it is a good idee to open a thread every month where any possible new info about the game can be put in, what is the problem with it ?
If somebody shows up now, calling me a troll and offending me in such a primitive way at the same time... sorry, canīt help him. I still say that EIA is terrible late now, I am worried what it will look like (lots of open questions) etc- but I canīt see a personal attack on Marshall in this, or even an offending. And if any playtester might feel offended for several month like someone said, I would be terrible sorry and would like to know why, cause all I said so far to any playtester was "thanks" to Pippin.




Titi -> RE: March Update (3/14/2006 5:15:14 AM)

The world is divided in two those that believe and those that dont't beleive; those that take the red pill and those that take the blue one; those that build airplanes and those that made them explode; those that says good work and the others that says it could be better ...

Hum, do you really beleive it's so simple [&:]

Personally, i fully support those that are wishing all their best to Marshall cause i really think he need it. Also i fully support anyone wishing to make any kind of donation to him [:D]

But i also understand St-Cyr. After all Matrix, the publisher, give us this forum to all of us to tell what we think. Marshall use the place first to give us some kind of release date a long time ago; then for a monthly report that suddenly vanished; it was also used to inform us of the news that most of the optional rules won't be in the computer game.

Now there is also a group of playtesters somewhere that are working hours oafter hours to playtest the game; but that doesn't post something in months. I wish to hope they are still testing but as the time passed, the doubt is growing that they don't.

So to summarize, Marshall ruined the schedule, don't fully know the game (based on the lack of the tactical maximum rating in the first plan), lack the communication skill ... to date. Harsh but true.
Sure on the other side, i don't know a lot of thing about his work on this game or him.

I have some negative, very few positive. So what, that don't make him a poor person, a poor programmer, a dumbass or anything else that i don't said. He has weakness and we all know those now. We don't know his strength unless two : resilience to still beleive in this game and being a gentleman to still reply on this forum.

Also i don't think that he has all the time to finish this game : computers are evolving like OS are changing, software need to follow hardware; human memory is self erasing, more time spend on a code just mean more time needed just to refresh what was done first; interest is fading with the time, other games are released that took money and interest that CEiA was holding.

We can continue to bitch each others endless or we can move on. Everyone make mistake : Marshall, St-Cyr, Myself ... Let's try to correct those : Marshall or a playtester by posting some report of what is going. Maybe just tell us where they are blocked. After all maybe a good advice may come here in the middle of flames. Us by keeping the faith, but it's easier with some kind of sign [&o]

Enough preaching, anyway [;)]



gazfun -> RE: March Update (3/14/2006 7:33:37 AM)

Hi fellows
Well as a beta tester, everyone should know that we are working everyday on this, and so is Marshall, pumping out work for us to do here, you know grinding away at a hot computer, melting the keyboards and making the mouse wheels screem around the pad.
There has been a discussion started about info being sent out. I dont know how far that will go. Sorry guys I cant say more.
Chin up [sm=00000613.gif]



StCyr -> RE: March Update (3/14/2006 10:01:23 AM)

Oh, so you are beta tester [:)].

Thanks to Titi for his last posting, I agree 100% with it. I am glad he mentioned again the lack of tactical maximum rating in the first plan. Cause this is a good example that things may run bad but can be corrected if there is a dialoge between developer and gamers. David Heath then asked to "remember that this game is still in major beta testing stage and we are not saying its final". And also it was a good example that Matrix is right to be different from other companies.
But Marshall in my eyes made a bold change in PR policy - he simply gives no further informtions. Perhapse he does not want to make any further fundamental change (even if EIA would benefit from it), I donīt know. And back to David Heath: I fear that when Marshall might give the next infos about the game, it will be final. So with no chance to make a change to any possible mistake in game designe, nomatter how hard it might be. And that would be terrible sad with so many guys around here for so long knowing EIA that well but without a chance to interact with Marshall.

edit:
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Hi Guys

Remember one of the reasons why we announce our games early is to get your input at the start and thoughout the development process. I hope everyone can see from this forum conference alone that we do listen to what you are saying. We then research your comments and make changes that we feel are justified and are able to make. Its stinks as far as time lines but from our track record it does seem to make some great games. I also like to thank Marshall and the beta testers for sticking with it.

David Heath
Matrix Games

< Message edited by David Heath -- 2/27/2005 6:24:23 PM >



gazfun -> RE: March Update (3/15/2006 3:39:28 AM)

I wish I can help you, you may have the time to make specualtions, I only have the time for work at the moment, and you know what doing. Bye [;)]



Murat -> RE: March Update (3/15/2006 5:59:23 AM)

Well I liked being able to give input. That of course did not take too long. As others have noted this game will sell some copies when it is finally released but after almost a decade of telling people how awesome this game is, and half that time telling people it was being modified to computer I have no friends who are even remotely interested in purchasing this now since other developers have released what in my friends' minds are "equivilant products". My great fear is that when this is ready and the sales are flat once the diehards gather their copies that everyone involved in producing it and getting it out will be disappointed and never attempt a similar undertaking again.

BUT as has also been noted, this game has been passed around as much as a cheerleader in a football lockerroom. I agree with whomever (sorry I can't see all the previous posts) pointed out that each developer should focus on getting one game finished instead of trying to do several at once. For similar frustrations see the Guns of August thread.



Spartan07 -> RE: March Update (3/15/2006 11:35:01 PM)

Its been said before but I say it again, this is THE game we have all been waiting. Its really shaping up well and will be worth the wait. When this one comes out we will be happy to spend the rest of our days in front of the screen.

Just my opinion no one elses!!!!!



ktotwf -> RE: March Update (3/17/2006 11:29:18 PM)

As much as sometimes it doesn't feel like it, it looks like this will eventually come out, so, if you just wait a long time, it will come eventually.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: March Update (3/18/2006 2:18:08 PM)

Hey guys:


Just wanted to clarify a few things...

1. When I say that I'll let you know when something measurable happens, I mean to say when something measurable happens that you guys don't know about.

2. Sorry for the loss of the monthly update but I REFUSE to be more redundant as we were.

Thank you




ktotwf -> RE: March Update (3/18/2006 10:50:56 PM)

I am still really looking forward to the game. Empires in Arms is the best simulation of the Era, and when the game finally comes out, it will be unbelievably fun.

Just have heart. Fear no darkness.



Dragonheart -> RE: March Update (3/21/2006 11:57:40 AM)

Better you switch to yearly updates...monthly updates are that much frustrating. [>:]

Just kidding keep doing your good job. [:D]



hlj -> RE: March Update (3/28/2006 4:29:29 PM)

^_^ Looking farward to the game. Just wanted to post to let you know that I havent lost intrest in it yet ^_^



StCyr -> RE: March Update (3/29/2006 2:35:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:


Just wanted to clarify a few things...

1. When I say that I'll let you know when something measurable happens, I mean to say when something measurable happens that you guys don't know about.



How to know about it if not by you ? Are the playtesters free to post about the game ?

quote:

2. Sorry for the loss of the monthly update but I REFUSE to be more redundant as we were.


If you consider your postings within the last 6 month, how to speak about "redundance" ?
Is David Heath wrong asking "to get your input at the start and thoughout the development process" ? Hard to give any input if all we hear is "itīs done when itīs done" (and it would be useless if nothing is to change anymore).

Question to all of you: Did anybody play with "overrun-houserules" ? My groups never had much fun to see one corps with one factor to block an army of for example 12 coprs and 150 factors with Napoleon for one month.






anarchyintheuk -> RE: March Update (3/30/2006 7:15:09 PM)

Yeah, we never sat down and decided on a specific number like 10-1 odds, we just used a bs meter. If the majority of the people playing thought the force comparison overwhelming, the corps was considered overun. We considered other factors like the terrain, rivers, commanders, cavalry, nationality, etc. A one factor corps holding up almost any army, anywhere was always considered bs.



Roads -> RE: March Update (3/31/2006 11:41:39 PM)

How can you know whether it's a 1 factor corps or a 25 factor corps?



anarchyintheuk -> RE: March Update (4/4/2006 12:53:06 AM)

The honesty of the player. He was supposed to bring up an overrun possiblity. A third party checked whether it was. Not very workable, but better than the one factor corps.



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