Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (Full Version)

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gambler -> Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (3/13/2006 2:23:42 AM)

Ok. Does anyone else have this problem?

I've created three formations for my 1930's league("A formation" which looks like the modern shotgun except the HB lines up behind center with the QB to the left - QB is a blocking back in the era, and the FB to the right; my version of the single wing; and the double wing - move one of the backfield members to the left side of the formation). Fairly regularly in Quick Play, odd realignments occur. For instance:

A Formation: The FB is shifted to the left side. Everyone else stays in place. This puts the FB on top of the QB. Needless to say, most plays don't really work well when this happens.

Double Wing Formation: The fullback (normally to the right of the Halfback) and the Slotback (to the right and behind the receiver who plays tight on the line) both get switched to the left side. This puts the SB on top of the QB (who plays in the same position as the SB, to the left side). Again, the play goes FUBAR.

In many cases, the FB takes 1-2 steps towards the line before the play starts whether he's lined up properly or not. This often messes up the timing and blocking patterns of the play.

NONE of these issues show up when practicing the plays. I'm guessing this is a 'flip play' deal that the CPU chooses to do once in awhile (at least 50% of the time). Is there any way to make this optional (for some reason I'm remembering something along these lines but for the life of me I can't find it...)



Magnum357 -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (3/13/2006 2:35:47 AM)

I never knew that the plays were being flipped during a game by the computer. I know you can do it manually, but I didn't know that the computer could do it. In some ways, I kinda agree with you that having the computer flip plays might not be a great idea for the game. I remember Football Pro 99 had this ability and it was more trouble then it was worth. The Defenders in FP99 had trouble adjusting to it and it also created more possibilities for bugs to occur. Also, I don't think it is very common too see whole formations "Flip" from one side of the feild to another, I can see specialist players doing it, but I highly doubt you would see Linemen fliping there formation from play to play.

If this is really occuring automatically, I kinda hope its just optional too.



gambler -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (3/13/2006 6:08:30 PM)

I watched more closely the last couple of games I tried.

It looks like it flips the 'skill' players except the QB. Now, in a 'normal' formation this is bad enough (if you specifically have your line set to run off right tackle for instance, your halfback isn't going to find as smooth sailing off left tackle). I can't guarantee it flips plays though for 'normal formations' since I haven't tested that.

For a formation like the ones I created where the 'QB' is one of the skill players (remember, this is "30's" football) and the HB takes the snap, it becomes a disaster. Sometimes the QB is in the 'slot' position. Since he doesn't move when the formation is flipped, but the SB/TE does, it puts the SB/TE right on top of the QB.

I think what I'm gonna have to do is just bite the bullet and just change the ratings of the players while keeping the position names the same. ie, the in game QB will be the 'real era' HB, etc. This will fix the odd formation "looks" but won't fix having to make each play perfectly symmetrical on the line to handle such 'flips' properly.



gambler -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (3/14/2006 4:30:37 PM)

After redoing the formations so that the QB is lined up behind center, the completely FUBAR flips stopped, but the skill players still flip 50% of the time. I'm taking it that this is an actual design decision? If so, can it possibly at least get a button to turn it off? It's easy enough to flip the play yourself and then put it into the playbooks and there are at least two major reasons why automatic flipping is BAD.

If you have an offensive line that's strong to the right side but has a couple of weak players on the other, you don't want the plays to flip if your playbook features runs behind the right tackle. The LINE doesn't flip, so suddenly your carefully crafted playbook has equal runs to both sides.

Sometimes it's not possible to make a play perfectly symmetrical. My dives off the center involve the center blocking left, the Right Guard blocking right. If it flips, the Center still blocks left and even if I make the Left Guard block left the going is much harder when it flips.

I kind of understand the reasoning behind it. Not too many people probably play in CPU/CPU mode (although I recall David saying at one point in time that this was his favorite mode), and auto-flipping adds an element of surprise, doubling the plays... but well, we can do that ourselves by flipping the plays in the PDS, so this feature is not needed and at the very least should be... customizable.. at least in a "completely customizable" game. :)



dragon2 -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (4/12/2006 9:22:39 PM)

I agree, this is one very annoying problem, Has anyone found out if this can be turned off?
One cpu vs cpu games, it seemed like it is flippng plays more than 50 percent of the time.
I have been taking my profb98 plays and updating them to fbmax, and don't see the advantage of this.
I would like to see David respond to this thread



David Winter -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (4/13/2006 7:32:37 AM)

The defensive play flipping is designed to counter tendencies by the other team. If the other teams tendency on offense is to, say, run the ball right, and there are no strong right defensive plays, the computer will flip a strong left play so that it can counter your running rightside all the time.

For the offensive side of the ball it does this from time to time and this is mearly to shake things up a bit.

(although I recall David saying at one point in time that this was his favorite mode),

Did I say this? Maybe I did, I don't remember. I don't think I have a favourite mode but watching a game play out is fun.



Deft -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (4/13/2006 3:21:35 PM)

David, could you make incorrect American (favourite, colour, gauge, quick, etc..) and correct American (favorite, color, gage, lite, kwik etc..) optional?

Thanks! [;)]



David Winter -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (4/13/2006 7:56:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deft

David, could you make incorrect American (favourite, colour, gauge, quick, etc..) and correct American (favorite, color, gage, lite, kwik etc..) optional?

Thanks! [;)]



The text is hard coded and I don't have any text localization in the game.



Marauders -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (4/14/2006 8:53:18 AM)

quote:

quote:

Thanks! [;)]


The text is hard coded and I don't have any text localization in the game.


Winks are hard coded into the boards too. [:D]



Deft -> RE: Formation Realignments.. Make it stop! (4/14/2006 3:51:28 PM)

I am in favour(or) of whatever is easiest.[:D]



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