Hugely annoying? (Full Version)

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Wellesley -> Hugely annoying? (3/13/2006 7:43:31 PM)

Hi there,

Recently bought this game and so far it's been a good one - although I must say that I've still got to have the "WOOOOW THIS GAME IS COOOOOOL!!!"-moment and unfortunately, I keep bumping into things which prevent me from having that moment.

Yesterday evening I played a detailed battle and the premise was - well, kinda attractive. 109,864 troops for France against about 101,500 Austrian and Brit troops in Picardie.

So I jump into the detailed battle, and see before me a fantastic opportunity to wipe the floor with the Austrian infantry and cannon - but I can't because I can't select my cavalry forces.

WHO came up with the brilliant idea to install some sort of weird 'rotational active player'-method? Why can't I simply select the units I want to and give them the orders I want to give them? Why must I wait 4 or 5 turns before I can select that infantry unit which was 'Fresh' after the first three turns of doing nothing but sitting on a ridge but then got beaten the **** out of by 3 separate Austrian cannon attacks so that I can't move it any more because it is 'Disordered'?

I'm sorry but it's... it's... idiotic! I simply cannot see what the purpose of this system is.

A superfluous system, whereby the player can select troops and give them orders at any given moment, and even countermand orders, just like in the real world, would be a lot better. It certainly would make me feel a lot happier playing the game cuz now I'm inclined to let the AI sort the battles... Which is a bit silly.



Wellesley -> RE: Hugely annoying? (3/14/2006 3:52:40 PM)

Hello?

Am I the only one with this opinion[&:]



Treefrog -> RE: Hugely annoying? (3/19/2006 8:46:19 PM)

Command and control is always problematic, especially before modern communications. Your own knowledge of history probably provides hundreds of examples of orders not delivered, ignored, or miscarried.

I'll butcher a quote, "No plan survives the first shot". Given the limitations on the AI, computer generated problems for you are about it's best chance. The one I like is where your artillery sets up in front of your infantry, the enemy moves first and overruns your guns!!! Oops.



Kevan -> RE: Hugely annoying? (3/20/2006 9:15:58 PM)

I'm not sure if I understand your problem completely, but here are some possible replies.

Turn-based movement

With hex-battle games, turn-based is usually easier to implement than simultaneous movement. With turn-based movement, there has to be some way of selecting which units move in which order, usually either randomly generated or using some sort of initiative system. Each of your units will have a chance to move each turn, though in some situations, such as during snowstorms or floods ( Note: floods are easy to overlook and I know I couldn't figure out why my divisions were bogged down for the first day when I fought in my first flood, as there's no graphical representation, but it's noted at the bottom of the screen), there may be turns when a division can do no more than change facing.

Reinforcements

Reinforcements do not move on the first turn they enter the map. Artillery enters tangled, so is effectively immobilized for two turns.

Garrisons

Garrisons and other divisions that you place on defensive status will be skipped each turn until you move the mouse over them and hit 'e' on your keyboard.


The above response covers the only situations that I can think of where a unit does not move during a given turn. What you're describing is more of a RTS-style interface such as is used in RTS games and the Total War series. It's a system that definitely has it's selling points, and which has impressed me in some modded versions of the Total War games that actually get battlefield mechanics working as they should. I guess any system has it's compromises. If CoG had a Total War style battle system, it could be an improvement if done correctly.



Budgie -> RE: Hugely annoying? (6/8/2006 5:58:32 AM)

Late to Answer this but I've nothing else to do tonight.

Wellesley. I agree the reinforcements sitting there useless to you is annoying, but I've noticed the AI does not attack them, so one must assume, they still in transit.


I also do not like the fact that you can't micro manage and move the units you want, when you want.

However the "W" key makes the movement system somewhat reasonable. (although the "wait" command should be an onscreen ICON in place of the less usefull "skip turn" ICON.)

Last night I started a battle where the game placed my outnumbered forces, in line on a hill/ridgeline, with my artillery in the centre and my cavalry on each flank.

Neither I, nor Nap, nor Monty , could have set them up better. I truthfully did not have to move a single infantry unit to win the battle as the French ruined thenselves trying to dislodge me from that hill.


I have played wargames for over 40 years and have rarely seen a human do a better job of initial deployment.

I only have respect for the programming ability that allowed the game to have this degree of AI insight into the tactical needs of a small force.

[&o]




Southern Hunter -> RE: Hugely annoying? (6/9/2006 6:18:17 AM)

Another late response:

- The decision to have the units take turns, makes the game easy to play, as you never have to think "so have I moved everything?". It is a decision to take some control away, but simplify play. I think it is the right decision.

- Your fresh troops getting pummelled before moving is somewhat annoying. I think troops should start with slightly more distance apart, unless it can be shown that you have done something 'wrong' strategically, like battled in bad weather, out reconned, out generalled, etc

Hunter



Grand_Armee -> RE: Hugely annoying? (6/9/2006 8:54:24 AM)

I like the detailed battle system.  It's great that neither you nor your opponent (playing human vs. human is GREAT!!! in this game) can move (and fire) a whole side before the other side can do anything.

This system makes you think and avoid moving your guys too far from support.  A human player won't sacrifice his cavalry the way the AI does just to grab a stray piece of artillery.  Also, it let's your guys...or his, get pummelled when they're in a position to be pummelled.

I think Wellesly, that once you have played enough to take on a human player, that you'll appreciate the detailed battle system a lot more.



Syagrius -> RE: Hugely annoying? (8/28/2006 5:14:15 PM)

Unlike most of the previous posters I understand what you mean. I myself found it strange that I can't just click on the unit I want to move but that I have to wait for "its turn"? Even in Panzer General we had to opportunity to move units in the order we preferred. Quite strange for a 2005 game [&:]



AvalonHillfan -> RE: Hugely annoying? (8/31/2006 6:31:31 AM)

I played through several campaigns (solo) without using detailed battle after one bad experience where the computer placed my supply caissons _in front of_ my army and so the Austrians routed the French. I don't mind the alternating turn system, but I would like to set up my troops.



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