Beta patch makes me lose! (Full Version)

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Wellesley -> Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 3:30:57 AM)

OK,

Downloaded latest beta-patch and with all due respect: it sucks when it comes to Quick Battles.

I'm very aware of most Napoleonic strategies and tactis - most notably Napoleon's "indirect approach" - but apparently, the game isn't.

It's August, September, October and November 1793 and I'm marching eastward through Bavaria (Armée du Nord), the indirect approach, and Switzerland (Armée du Midi) as a direct approach, both with quite a bunch of elite and regular troops, in an effort to get the Austrians down on their knees.

So Armée du Nord, with 63.4966 troops, switching south crashes on Tyrolia with 32.496 Austrian soldiers. I engage, French troops LOSE, even though the French have several higher levels of military Upgrades.

One turn later. Armée du Nord and Armée du Midi link up in Switzerland and lo and behold, there's a defensive battle, so with all the pluses for the defenders, and all the negatives for the attackers.

Numbers b4 battle begins: 98,758 French soldiers, 54,567 Austrian soldiers.
French troops got a lot of arty and cavalry (mainly due to Armée du Midi), and since Detailed Combat still isn't as superfluous as it ought to be, I click 'Quick Battle', and lo and behold! The French lose.

Then Burgundy. Armée du Midi and Armée du Nord combined. Present in Burgundy are also 1 Light Infantry, 1 Guard and one Horse Arty div.
Austrians attack from Switzerland, Prussians from Palatinat.
Total combat figures: 68.667 Austrian and Prussian, 118.676 French (Armée du Midi, Armée du Nord, Swiss Guard and 2 new divisions) and lo and behold: the French lose!

Then Champagne. Armies: Du Nord, Du Midi, Swiss Guard, remnants of 2 divisions I mentioned above (Horse arty was captured apparently), added Militia in separate divs, extra arty div pulled up from Anjou. Result in Quick Battle as French defenders: Lose!

Next turn: French armies spread out over Normany and Brittany, Austrian and Prussian minimal forces sieging Paris in Ile-de-France.

As Ney would have said: "MERDE!"
As Napoleon would have said had he been me: "En-cro-fookin'-yable!"

Something very odd is happening here.



Husard -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 4:51:53 PM)

Hi Wellesley,
1st of all i want you to know that you are not the only 1 who finds some "things" in COG hard to understand. Don't try to understand those things because..like in all dice-roll based "Wargame" the factor Luck is essential,even here.
Me personally,i lost 2 battles because of 1 lousy Arty Unit that wouldn't break or even take serious damage from my combined effort to take it out.
If you are a Wargamer then surely you also had a situation where you rolled some 6's at very critical moments in battles. Here unfortunately u don't see those "dice rolls"
Save your Game after each turn and if u get owned by inferior forces,simply reload the last save and try it again and surely you will wipe your opponent off the map [;)]

Regards
Husard



Wellesley -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 6:26:34 PM)

Husard,

Indeed, I've played many a strategy game ever since my Commodore64-days. And although the luck-factor is certainly a prominent feature of most wars, and thus wargames, what I witnessed last night was ab-so-lu-te-ly silly. If the luck-factor is that prominent in the game after the current patch, then I think the luck-factor should be toned down somewhat.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 6:31:17 PM)

how were your troops set up ?

while things can go bad in a quick battle, it normally is pretty streightforward and the stronger side wins



Erik Rutins -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 7:18:00 PM)

That does sound quite odd - do you perchance have a save file at some point right before one or both of those battles? It certainly could be _extremely_ bad luck, but of the sort I haven't seen in my own play. Generally, a force with that type of strength advantage and especially a French one, wins.

Regards,

- Erik



ericbabe -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 8:11:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

That does sound quite odd - do you perchance have a save file at some point right before one or both of those battles? It certainly could be _extremely_ bad luck, but of the sort I haven't seen in my own play. Generally, a force with that type of strength advantage and especially a French one, wins.

Regards,

- Erik



If you look closely, Erik, his battles were in 1793. In the 1792 scenario Austria have the superior military (in size and morale) as most of the French forces at that time were rather rag-tag. Michel Ney might have said "Merde!," but he wasn't even a *brigadier* general until 1796. Napoleon may have said "En-cro-fookin'-yable!" but even he didn't become a brigadier general until Dec. 1793. Also to consider, the battles in Switzerland and Tyrolia give considerable terrain bonuses to the defender.




Erik Rutins -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 9:58:17 PM)

Eric,

Well spotted, I did overlook the year. Your comments about the terrain also make sense. And may I say - "En-cro-fookin'-yable!" is now my favorite new word. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik



Wellesley -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 10:08:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wellesley

One turn later. Armée du Nord and Armée du Midi link up in Switzerland and lo and behold, there's a defensive battle with me the French being the defenders, so with all the pluses for the defenders, and all the negatives for the attackers, a.k.a. the Austrians[image]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/smiley/00000117.gif[/image]

Numbers b4 battle begins: 98,758 French soldiers, 54,567 Austrian soldiers.
French troops got a lot of arty and cavalry (mainly due to Armée du Midi), and since Detailed Combat still isn't as superfluous as it ought to be, I click 'Quick Battle', and lo and behold! The French lose.


Furthermore, I mentioned Ney and Napoleon's possible outcries for the fun of it all. As I assumed you'd understand [8D]
As for your encyclopedic knowledge about ze Vrench Armeee in the period, I vill zay onleee wone zing: NERD [:D][:'(]

(DISCLAIMER in case the smilies don't work: the last remark was in jest...)



Erik Rutins -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 10:21:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wellesley
One turn later. Armée du Nord and Armée du Midi link up in Switzerland and lo and behold, there's a defensive battle with me the French being the defenders, so with all the pluses for the defenders, and all the negatives for the attackers, a.k.a. the Austrians[image]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/smiley/00000117.gif[/image]

Numbers b4 battle begins: 98,758 French soldiers, 54,567 Austrian soldiers.
French troops got a lot of arty and cavalry (mainly due to Armée du Midi), and since Detailed Combat still isn't as superfluous as it ought to be, I click 'Quick Battle', and lo and behold! The French lose.



"En-cro-fookin'-yable!" [;)] Eric will have to sort this out, I am not enough of a nerd to do it. [8D]

Regards,

- Erik



ericbabe -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (3/18/2006 10:33:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wellesley
Furthermore, I mentioned Ney and Napoleon's possible outcries for the fun of it all. As I assumed you'd understand [8D]
As for your encyclopedic knowledge about ze Vrench Armeee in the period, I vill zay onleee wone zing: NERD [:D][:'(]

(DISCLAIMER in case the smilies don't work: the last remark was in jest...)


Ha!

- Proud Napoleonic Nerd



mogami -> RE: Beta patch makes me lose! (4/5/2006 7:58:16 AM)

Hi, As the French lost battles they went into the following battles with ever lower morale.
with low enough morale the Army will break even before it suffers any loss and so the defensive benifits do not play any part.
I don't fight quick battles with new (low morale) Armies. I will use the quick battle if it is a veteran Army fighting a force that I have defeated recently (repeatedly)
The detailed battles against such forces do not take any time to fight. Once the enemy breaks use the quick combat to finish it up fast.

Austria in 1792 has higher training and morale then the French do. Prussia only amounts to about a Corps of usesfull troops. As France you have to defeat Austria in France while you reorganize (build Corps) and then move towards Vienna once the frontier is secure.

In human versus human games France has a very hard time defeating Austria and Prussia and a French AI always loses to human Austria.

Historically the well trained and organized French Army did not appear before 1803. (prior to that all the Corps and staff organizations were temporay)




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