Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (Full Version)

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Nemo121 -> Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (3/31/2006 9:16:52 AM)

Hi I'm playing a PBEM against Przemcio and I've had a few issues which are conspiring to rob me of quite a bit of my force.

1. The 1st Parachute Regiment which was being air transported to Rahaeng has just disappeared. Yes I did forget to wait 1 turn before transporting its last units... My question is is there anything I can do to get it back? Any savegame hack or something? It really is quite crucial to my plans to secure Burma by mid-January 42... It is now 22nd December 41 and I'm just about to take Rangoon after eliminating about 5 Brigades of Allied troops but I NEED to paradrop on some forward bases to secure the advance of my armoured spearhead.


2. The turn the 1st Parachute Regiment disappeared the display of units at Rahaeng ( its base) also stopped. So when I click on Rahaeng I see my air forces, supply etc etc but no ground units listed. I can access them by clicking directly on the map so there's a workaround but since it is quite a strange bug I thought I'd post it.

3. Several of my other units persist in remaining as fragments even though there are no other fragments of their initial units on-map. E.g. I transported 2 divisions into the Phillipines and both of those divisions show as /1 fragments even though there are no other fragments of those units anywhere else on-map. This has happened to several NLFs and those two divisions. Any ideas on what is happening here?


Is it possible to fix these things? I mean if it is just a question of waiting for the divisions to change from fragments to HQs then that's fine but I'm worried that this will have unanticipated consequences in the fight for Clark Field... Also, I'd love to get the 1st Parachute Regiment back. I had plans to use that in both Burma and China and its loss really puts a crimp in my plans... Any help at all would be much appreciated.



MarcA -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (3/31/2006 10:21:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
1. The 1st Parachute Regiment which was being air transported to Rahaeng has just disappeared. Yes I did forget to wait 1 turn before transporting its last units... My question is is there anything I can do to get it back? Any savegame hack or something? It really is quite crucial to my plans to secure Burma by mid-January 42... It is now 22nd December 41 and I'm just about to take Rangoon after eliminating about 5 Brigades of Allied troops but I NEED to paradrop on some forward bases to secure the advance of my armoured spearhead.


The basic answer is no. Mr Frag use to be able to edit game files and maybe if you plead nicely with Mog or Michealm they maybe able to help. Failing that your para regiment is gone.

quote:


2. The turn the 1st Parachute Regiment disappeared the display of units at Rahaeng ( its base) also stopped. So when I click on Rahaeng I see my air forces, supply etc etc but no ground units listed. I can access them by clicking directly on the map so there's a workaround but since it is quite a strange bug I thought I'd post it.


I have seen something similar to this before. I found by scrolling the map slightly it would display the forgotten symbols. Also, rebooting and starting the game agin also corrected the problem.

quote:


3. Several of my other units persist in remaining as fragments even though there are no other fragments of their initial units on-map. E.g. I transported 2 divisions into the Phillipines and both of those divisions show as /1 fragments even though there are no other fragments of those units anywhere else on-map. This has happened to several NLFs and those two divisions. Any ideas on what is happening here?


One thought is that a fragment of the unit is still aboard a ship somewhere. Checkt he transports to make sure they unloaded properly. I have had units which I have split and a fragment has disappeared which gives a similar result. If this is the case it is unlikely you can fix it.



el cid again -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (3/31/2006 12:01:42 PM)

quote:

Mr Frag use to be able to edit game files and maybe if you plead nicely with Mog or Michealm they maybe able to help.


Any idea what he used as a tool? A hex editor perhaps? Not debug, surely?



MarcA -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (3/31/2006 2:21:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

Mr Frag use to be able to edit game files and maybe if you plead nicely with Mog or Michealm they maybe able to help.


Any idea what he used as a tool? A hex editor perhaps? Not debug, surely?


No he never said



Feinder -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (3/31/2006 4:43:41 PM)

I had the PM Def Bde disappear on me. I had pulled a good portion of it (more than just a smidge from a sub), and dumped it in Tville. It was the parent unit. I think I was pulling another part of it, maybe this time by sub, when it disappeared. I "found" two fragments, one in San Francisco, another in Tville. Both appeared on the base unit list, but not on the "list all LCU" list. When I clicked on either of the fragments, it would actually display the HQ LCU (either SWPac or WestCoast), and then all the base icons along East Oz or West Coast would disappear (amusing, and annoying, but I could click on the base, the get the base info, didn't bring back the map without restart tho).

I found that I could select each of the fragments when loading ships (and the fragments displayed the correct ANZAC squads). So I tried loading and unloading each of the fragments, to see if it would recreate the parent, no luck.

At this point, they're both loaded back on their transports, heading to Hilo, to see what happens when I off-load them in the same hex (don't want to off-load at Pearl, just in case things get bonkered).

Also, I once had the Malaya HQ on several transports in the SRA. The convoy got hit, the parent was killed, and a ship with a fragment was badly damaged. I decided to scuttle the ship. Next turn, the fragment turned up in Karachi as the parent. It has since rebuilt, and has seems to have been no worse for the ordeal (I didn't do it intentially by the way, altho I do find it amusing).

-F-



Nemo121 -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (3/31/2006 7:46:14 PM)

So if this happens should I just ask for the game to go back to the turn prior to the disappearance? I mean an NLF or something won't be missed but 50% of my parachute force goin missing is just taking the piss.

What's the PBEM etiquette for such a situation?



MarcA -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (3/31/2006 8:39:57 PM)

ASk for the turn to be taken back. If your oppoenent is half descent he wont object. In any case, he will probably need the same favour someday.



erstad -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/1/2006 5:08:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

So if this happens should I just ask for the game to go back to the turn prior to the disappearance? I mean an NLF or something won't be missed but 50% of my parachute force goin missing is just taking the piss.

What's the PBEM etiquette for such a situation?


FYI, it's not 50% of your para force, it's 20%. Yokosuka 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are para capable too.

I've lost paras in at least one PBEM. Sigh.



spence -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/1/2006 6:27:22 AM)

I've had two PBEMs now where I split an Allied Bde into its A and B subunits. In both games one of the halves engaged in combat and lost some strength. The two subunits subsequently ended up in the same hex but neither one has a rebuild/recombine button. Anybody know how to recombine the subunits or what conditions must be met to do so?

A second situation comes to mind as a possibility. What if one of the subunits gets wiped out and the other survives. Does anybody know if it will it become a "parent unit" for the whole brigade or just for the A or B half?



MarcA -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/1/2006 8:33:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

I've had two PBEMs now where I split an Allied Bde into its A and B subunits. In both games one of the halves engaged in combat and lost some strength. The two subunits subsequently ended up in the same hex but neither one has a rebuild/recombine button. Anybody know how to recombine the subunits or what conditions must be met to do so?


This will be because the equipment of one part upgraded and not the other. Compare the tables of equipment for the two parts. You can only recombine the units if there tables of equipment are the same.

quote:


A second situation comes to mind as a possibility. What if one of the subunits gets wiped out and the other survives. Does anybody know if it will it become a "parent unit" for the whole brigade or just for the A or B half?


The surviving half should become the parent



dtravel -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/1/2006 9:44:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantill

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

I've had two PBEMs now where I split an Allied Bde into its A and B subunits. In both games one of the halves engaged in combat and lost some strength. The two subunits subsequently ended up in the same hex but neither one has a rebuild/recombine button. Anybody know how to recombine the subunits or what conditions must be met to do so?


This will be because the equipment of one part upgraded and not the other. Compare the tables of equipment for the two parts. You can only recombine the units if there tables of equipment are the same.


Not always. I reported a problem with recombining units that haven't been in combat or had upgrades more than a year ago.

quote:


quote:


A second situation comes to mind as a possibility. What if one of the subunits gets wiped out and the other survives. Does anybody know if it will it become a "parent unit" for the whole brigade or just for the A or B half?


The surviving half should become the parent



Operative word being "should". Don't count on it.



michaelm75au -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/1/2006 11:16:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

I've had two PBEMs now where I split an Allied Bde into its A and B subunits. In both games one of the halves engaged in combat and lost some strength. The two subunits subsequently ended up in the same hex but neither one has a rebuild/recombine button. Anybody know how to recombine the subunits or what conditions must be met to do so?

A second situation comes to mind as a possibility. What if one of the subunits gets wiped out and the other survives. Does anybody know if it will it become a "parent unit" for the whole brigade or just for the A or B half?


1. The unit will only be able to rebuild if
(a) all units have the same devices,
(b) units belong to the same HQ,
(c) no fragments present.

Point (a) is often hard to check. Infantry squads can upgrade but their description is still the same.
Points (b) and (c) are applicable to version 1.7+.

2. If you lose one of the sub-units, you won't be able to rebuild to have a parent brigade unit anymore.

Michael



aletoledo -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/1/2006 5:27:16 PM)

I had something wierd happen the other day. I lost an avaiation regiment due to the air transport bug. however the aviation support (from that regiment) is at the base still!!



Curty -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/3/2006 10:11:57 PM)

Is this something that happens to you EVERY time you try to air transport a unit...I only tried once and lost 503rd Para Regt...never again!



Mark VII -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/3/2006 10:37:01 PM)

I had the IJA 5th Division vanish in Malaya. Turn sent to Michealm and he was unable to recover it. He suggested that we move back a turn(two days) to when it was last seen. I gave it slightly different orders and it did not vanish and was very helpfull in liberating Singapore from the Brits about a month early. It really did not mess up the game by going back, just cost Ed and I about a week of real time trying to figure it out with the help of Michealm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mantill

ASk for the turn to be taken back. If your oppoenent is half descent he wont object. In any case, he will probably need the same favour someday.




Feinder -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/3/2006 11:05:18 PM)

(* knocks on wood *)

I haven't lost one yet (I'm running v1.602).

"Get troops" may be safer. Thus far, in one PBEM game I've pulled 7 of 9 SEAC Chinese Divisions over the the hump via air-trasport using "get troops" (so transports are at a different AF than the LCUs). The lift creates a fragment at the AF of the transports, and they keep hauling for a while. Then there's a turn where the transports revert to "supply" (I stand them down, just to be sure), and the next turn, the parent is re-assigned to the AF where the transports are. The following turn, the remaining fragment at the original AF is picked up, and the process is complete.

In another PBEM game, I've also just completed a successful assault to capture a defended (albeit lightly, abotu 500 enemy troops) atoll by the 2nd USMC Para Btn. The drop was successful, beyond my expectations. My paras were 100% prepped, suffered -NO- permanent casualties (only 3 - 4 disablements), captured the island in one turn, no enemy forces remain, unit is completely present, and 1000+ supplies to boot. Worked like a charm.

-F-



Curty -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/4/2006 1:37:17 AM)

Thanks for those tips Feinder, I'll wait for another opportunity to use my paras and I'll implement your techniques...

Cheerybye - Curty.



jwilkerson -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/4/2006 9:07:32 AM)

quote:

and the next turn, the parent is re-assigned to the AF where the transports are


Yup - this is a solid work around (the nature of the air transport bug was that - at least in some cases - the size attribute - and the devices of the unit - were being split - the devices in the parent - and the size in the fragment - then the parent got zapped - because it was size zero - taking the squads with it - Feinder's work around works, because he pauses for a turn - allowing the parent to switch bases - which avoids the bug - but this is one of the cases that we have found and fixed in the pending release - so hopefully you won't have to use this "dance" for ever).

But Feinder is still a lucky man ! Even I've lost 2 units to various disappearing unit bugs in my roughly 2600 PBEM turns ( and BTW there are multiple disappearing unit bugs - not just one ! ).

Oh and get troops isn't any safer to my knowledge - what matters is where the parent is relative to the fragment - but pausing for a turn will allow it to switch bases in either case (to activate the "work around").






dtravel -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/4/2006 9:10:52 AM)

I hope you're right about this being corrected in 1.8, because that workaround doesn't always work. Some people have reported the parent and fragment swapping back after they have attempted it.



castor troy -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/4/2006 3:48:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

(* knocks on wood *)

I haven't lost one yet (I'm running v1.602).

"Get troops" may be safer. Thus far, in one PBEM game I've pulled 7 of 9 SEAC Chinese Divisions over the the hump via air-trasport using "get troops" (so transports are at a different AF than the LCUs). The lift creates a fragment at the AF of the transports, and they keep hauling for a while. Then there's a turn where the transports revert to "supply" (I stand them down, just to be sure), and the next turn, the parent is re-assigned to the AF where the transports are. The following turn, the remaining fragment at the original AF is picked up, and the process is complete.

In another PBEM game, I've also just completed a successful assault to capture a defended (albeit lightly, abotu 500 enemy troops) atoll by the 2nd USMC Para Btn. The drop was successful, beyond my expectations. My paras were 100% prepped, suffered -NO- permanent casualties (only 3 - 4 disablements), captured the island in one turn, no enemy forces remain, unit is completely present, and 1000+ supplies to boot. Worked like a charm.

-F-


hmm, I wonder why everyone is using pick up troops but in my games (1.6 and 1.795) it doesn´t work anymore. Worked in versions before though. [&:][&:][&:]



Nomad -> RE: Disappearing units, loss of HQs and inaccesible ground units. NOT for Przemcio123 (4/4/2006 3:56:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I hope you're right about this being corrected in 1.8, because that workaround doesn't always work. Some people have reported the parent and fragment swapping back after they have attempted it.


I agree here, I had a unit that tried to move. I transported about 80%, stood down a turn and the pieced changed. I then started moving the rest and the units swapped parant/fragment status. Stood down another turn and they again swapped. Tried to move the rest of the fragment and both pieces dissappeared. Very frustrating.



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